So, I've had a generally rosy experience with X-Wing to this point when it comes to sportsmanlike conduct - which is one big reason this is the first table-top game I've played competitively.

I do have one complaint, however, and I want to know a) if others have experienced this and b) how it is handled best for repeat offenders:

In multiple instances, to the point where counting is tiresome, an opponent has revealed a maneuver, stated aloud a different (and always more advantageous) maneuver, then laid down the corresponding template to execute. I've stopped my opponent every time, trying to be as polite as possible about it and have even offered to let them execute the alternate maneuver if, in fact, it was their intended maneuver. But it's really getting old...

Again, overall great experience and I'm not painting with a broad brush, just my brush. And I'm calling foul on those who do this intentionally.

Thoughts?

ew. While I understand your opponent's apparent appreciation of the "fly casual" rule, I completely understand your trepidation here. That seems a little "too" casual. Get me once, fine. Get me thirteen or fourteen times.... that just seems like blatant cheating if you ask me. To answer your question however, if it happens as a repeat scenario, I'd become more and more stern with each offense. First time, go for it. Mistakes were made. Second time and every time after, I would absolutely insist that he's completing the maneuver on the dial, not what works best for him.

Single opponent doing this I'm guessing. The basic problem is either they're not going through the process step by step and thinking they have something on the dial they don't, or (the more nefarious) taking advantage of the fact that you don't want to make a game into a confrontation in order to cheat.

The solution for me in either case is saying "I cant see your dial" when he reveals it, to reveal the correct maneuver. Then hold him to it, if he claims it is a mistake tell them that by you are making them a better player by making them live with their mistakes, and therefore will not make them again.

If the situation persists they are obviously not interested in a fair game and I would avoid playing them in the future.

If it's after I moved too bad so sad

That is cheating

Once dials are set they are set

If it was his first ship to move I wouldn't care

But if I moved already or he already moves 3 ships and now is colliding, well sorry man that how the game goes

Also if it's the same person I say it's time to learn how to play the game properly

If he had an issue with that then I'd tell him be more careful when selecting his maneuver.

I mean why even use a dial

Let's just everyone put down whatever template they want

an opponent has revealed a maneuver, stated aloud a different (and always more advantageous) maneuver, then laid down the corresponding template to execute.

You must perform the maneuver revealed on the dial, period. So if he reveals a left 3 bank, he must perform a left 3 bank. If his dial is set to a left 3 bank and he says he is going to do anything else he's cheating pure and simple.

At that point you have to decide if you want to let him cheat or not. Myself I'd tell him that if he's not going to play by the rules I won't play with him any longer.

Letting someone out and out cheat you is doing a disservice to your gaming community. "That Guy" will sour people on the venue, if not the game entirely with this type of behavior. He may not seem like it, but he is bullying you with his behavior, never let someone bully you.

Single opponent doing this I'm guessing.

While this is the only form of unsportsmanlike conduct I've been exposed to, it has been multiple opponents...

Letting someone out and out cheat you is doing a disservice to your gaming community. "That Guy" will sour people on the venue, if not the game entirely with this type of behavior. He may not seem like it, but he is bullying you with his behavior, never let someone bully you.

Agreed. I think I'm jaded because I enjoy the game, win or lose (mostly lose...) and get infuriated when I lose to someone who attempts this during the game - though beating those people feels real good. If only flipping the table was as acceptable in X-Wing as it is in Monopoly.

We're all human and make mistakes and sometimes we change our minds and forget, especially when you have a few ships to think about. I don't think there's anything wrong with you pointing it out when the mistake is made. Some will say, well you shouldn't have to. Well then that makes your opponent a cheater and you a player with a missed opportunity. If it happened more than once in the game, especially if it's some sort of championship (store, regional, etc.), I would definitely call a TO over just to get it on record. Otherwise, if it's flying casual and/or a newer player, then probably help them figure out that it's wrong.

it has been multiple opponents...

Is it some sort of unwritten rule in that store/club or something?

I can't see how this could ever be a mistake. It's not like anyone could reasonably say they forgot what maneuver they picked and after flipping the dial pick something else.

Have you tried just pointing out to the person what the dial shows and tell them they need to perform the maneuver the dial shows? There's rules in place for how to deal with the wrong dial or even if the dial has moved and no longer is clearly on a single maneuver.

Just say NO.

I played a friend in a tournament this weekend and he revealed his dial going the opposite direction he intended, which landed him on a rock. He didn't ask to change it and executed it with minimal whining, which put him in position for me to hammer that defenseless ship.

He knew the rules and played that way.

Your opponents should too.

it has been multiple opponents...

Is it some sort of unwritten rule in that store/club or something?

I can't see how this could ever be a mistake. It's not like anyone could reasonably say they forgot what maneuver they picked and after flipping the dial pick something else.

Have you tried just pointing out to the person what the dial shows and tell them they need to perform the maneuver the dial shows? There's rules in place for how to deal with the wrong dial or even if the dial has moved and no longer is clearly on a single maneuver.

Nope - ScottieATF nailed, I sincerely feel like they are pushing the envelope. I'm relatively new to the group and think this might be one of those things that overly-competitive people do to those who might let them get away with it. To date, I haven't let it happen without pointing out the disconnect - but it keeps happening, thus this topic.

Just say NO.

Again, again, and again.. lol

I actually do this quite often (though not nearly always to my advantage). It typically has to do with having two maneuvers that I was unable to decide between until late into setting dials ... and then forgetting which one I settled on.

This is why we reveal dials, and this is why it's a good idea to check the revealed dial.

Even for a repeat offender, IMO it's too much of a stretch to make the leap to cheating. (Although if it really is always in his favor, maybe ... ) It's much more likely to just be a bad habit borne of the unholy union of indecisiveness and forgetfulness.

To date, I haven't let it happen without pointing out the disconnect - but it keeps happening, thus this topic.

Ok I hope they pull their collective heads out then and stop trying to pull this.

Even for a repeat offender, IMO it's too much of a stretch to make the leap to cheating.

It's one thing to say "I'm going to do a left 3 bank" then reveal the dial and say "oh crap I guess I'm not" It's something completely different when you declare a maneuver different than what your dial shows and start to perform that maneuver.

If you forget what you set on your dial, I've had it happen to me then you check what it is. You don't assume you did what is now clearly the best maneuver and try to perform it without checking the dial first.

To do this repeatedly... Flip the dial then start to perform the ideal maneuver which is not what you picked there's little left to call it other than cheating.

Make them do what's on the dial. If they're honestly forgetting then they won't learn to remember if you keep letting them do it.

Ive never run onto this. If they made a mistake, no problem. If it happens multiplr times in a game, ill start to question the player.

it has been multiple opponents...

Is it some sort of unwritten rule in that store/club or something?

I can't see how this could ever be a mistake. It's not like anyone could reasonably say they forgot what maneuver they picked and after flipping the dial pick something else.

Have you tried just pointing out to the person what the dial shows and tell them they need to perform the maneuver the dial shows? There's rules in place for how to deal with the wrong dial or even if the dial has moved and no longer is clearly on a single maneuver.

The mistake could come about when your ship is facing you. You want the ship to turn or bank to your left? Then set the dial to the turn or bank RIGHT. More than one RC flyer has crashed because left was right and up was down (flying inverted). I've been called on it a couple of times and always used the maneuver shown on the dial. Now I rotate the dial to align with the ship's orientation. That cuts down on mistakes.

Another possibility is your opponent is slightly dyslexic. Under pressure it gets worse. The maneuver he wanted may not be the one he set on the dial.

Not making excuses but people should be aware of other reasons for"inappropriate behavior" before crying foul.

As Stoneface points out, the only time I would consider it a mistake is when the ship is facing the player and he gets the left/right manoeuvres confused. Anything else is simply cheating. The best way to counter it is just ask them what their dial is showing. When they tell you what it's showing, ask why they're trying to do something else? When they tell you "But I meant to do this (the something else manoeuvre)", tell them "That's what you should have chosen then. Now you get to do the manoeuvre on your dial."

Honestly, If it happened more than twice during the same game, I would tell the opponent to stop trying to cheat, and if he gets in a huff about it, I'd just pack up my gear. He's not worth playing if he's going to be a habitual cheater. And it's even worse if it's a group and they all consider this acceptable.

I have a sick cat at the moment, she's getting treatment, but her appetite is gone, so she won't eat. I am force-feeding her. I hate it, I absolutely hate it, but I know that I HAVE TO DO IT, otherwise the sickness just gets worse.

You seem like a nice guy, and absolutely, if the most opportune movement is a right bank, the ship was facing the opponent and he honestly seems like he made a mistake when revealing a left bank, you should consider flying casual and let him do the right bank instead.

But for the 2nd time in a game, an almost all other instances, you have to insist he do the maneuver on the dial, if not, it only gets worse.

He's getting an unfair advantage.

He's not getting any better at planning his dials.

He's cheating.

He's learning that cheating works.

He's doing it against other people than you.

You HAVE to stop it, even if you feel bad doing the confrontation. Remember, it doesn't stop with you, he'll cheat against other players too. Help everyone (including the cheating player) by having him play by the rules.

What does a reasonable TO do in a situation like this? It happened twice in a SC and I simply corrected it among us. I'm not sure a TO would make a call based on what s/he may see as an isolated event. Stopping it and bringing it up to the TO is the first step, though... What I'm really struggling with is bringing it up to the larger group. As I said, I'm relatively new and rocking the proverbial boat is not my style.

This has been gaining traction: Fly Casual. Don't be a d*ck.

lol

Not making excuses but people should be aware of other reasons for"inappropriate behavior" before crying foul.

But it's not a single case of someone putting the dial down and declaring something else, then realizing their mistake. It's a group of people who have several times not only declared a different maneuver but actually started to perform it. I get why someone may pick the wrong maneuver mixing up left/right and so on. But that's not what's going on here.

What does a reasonable TO do in a situation like this?

First off in a SC I'd never let someone perform a different maneuver then what the dial shows... Unless it was extremely clear they confused left/right... They picked left which flies them off the board, but right would put them behind my ship, or something. But even then they'd get to do that once. As it stands I've never actually had anyone do that at any of the league or tournament games I've played.

But as the TO, I'd do some sort of 3 strikes thing. First time I'd just remind them that they have to perform the revealed maneuver, and mention that if they find themselves getting confused to turn the dial so the opening matches the ships facing. Then you don't get left/right confused. But after that the 2nd time they get a warning, 3rd time their second warning. If they've gotten a warning for something else then either forfeit the game or perhaps DQ them completely.

What I'm really struggling with is bringing it up to the larger group.

I'd just keep calling them on it, sooner or latter they have to realize they can't get away with that. But if it continues perhaps ask them about it. Ask someone why they think they can perform a maneuver other than what they picked. The answer may give a clue on what to do next or even that this may not be a group you want to play with.

What does a reasonable TO do in a situation like this? It happened twice in a SC and I simply corrected it among us. I'm not sure a TO would make a call based on what s/he may see as an isolated event. Stopping it and bringing it up to the TO is the first step, though... What I'm really struggling with is bringing it up to the larger group. As I said, I'm relatively new and rocking the proverbial boat is not my style.

One approach may be to talk to one of the lead players you feel comfortable with and ask him what he thinks. Share your concern and let him know it's diminishing game play for you. If you have the backing of a fellow player that agrees that this is a bad practice - you will have an easier way to address it with the group -or that player may actually do it for you. I've found that most players want to play an honest game and sometimes don't realize what is happening around them. If you address this on your own, you will not be received favorably.

We had one player who was using Predator to reroll dice after rerolling with a Target lock. He honestly didn't know he couldn't do that, but because no one called him on it - he did it all through one tournament. One of my friends that lost to him mentioned it to me afterwards, because he wasn't sure whether it was legal or not. The next time we went to a tournament, we let the player know that it was not legal in the very first game and from there on he stopped doing it.

Whatever decision you decide to apply, please remember: you are not a jerk for asking your opponent to play by the rules.

Whatever decision you decide to apply, please remember: you are not a jerk for asking your opponent to play by the rules.

Well said

But the only provision I'd mention is that some groups will play with unwritten rules and/or house rules. If everyone is doing it, it maybe something that as a group they allow in some cases.

They know the rules, and would play by them in tournaments but have house rules for friendly games... They may look at this like a mulligan in golf. It may not be, but it just seems odd that more than one person would be doing the same thing. So maybe ask someone about why they're doing it.

I think VanorDM's "3 strikes" is way too lenient. This is blatant cheating. One warning, next time DQ. You have to be firm as a TO or the players will abuse it.

If it's an ongoing behavior within this group, start looking for another group. Group behaviors are extremely hard to change. Let them cheat each other all they want.