I think Dorne is where Dany makes landfall in Westeros in books and show. Killing off Doran just accelerates that plot for the series.

Read that letter on first page. Jaime IS done with Cersei.

I think Dorne is where Dany makes landfall in Westeros in books and show. Killing off Doran just accelerates that plot for the series.

Yeah, but Prince Oberyn Doran wants to ally with Danny vs. Lannisters. The whole bit about him doing nothing is shown in the book when he reveals to one of the Sand Snakes that he is plotting to join Danny vs. the rest in revenge of his sister being murdered. He shows that he does want revenge, but on a grander scale. I don't think Oberyn Doran would be killed off by Danny or there even being a fight.

I do think that there is a break in his plans when his son doesn't get to marry Danny and gets killed by the dragons. Still, the idea can be the same.

Read that letter on first page. Jaime IS done with Cersei.

The letter shows nothing about how he's done with his sister. He just tells Oberyn that he's sending his son back and that Oberyn will probably need to execute a lot of them to avoid a war.

But compare what he says to her to what he actually did.

"Everything they've taken from us, we will take back, and more."

What he actually did: Let Doran's kid go.

If Cersei knew he did that she would probably try to have him put to death.

I agree that Dany was going to be welcomed into Dorne in either case, but this is just a faster way of explaining why without all the Quentyn business.

You are confusing Oberyn for Doran. Doran is the one in the wheel chair who got assassinated. Oberyn got his melon popped by the Mountain in both the book and show.

The show really hamfisted the whole Dorne thing. I think they are just trying to salvage it at this point and streamline it.

I'm having so much trouble separating the series from the books.

Word. It's been so long since I've read the books that I cannot remember which is a book plot or which is a show plot. I'll have to read book synopsis's when the new one drops to straighten myself out.

Jaime did seem chummy with Cersei again, but he could just be playing along and not trying to get on her bad side. Maybe he just feels sorry for her at this point.

You are confusing Oberyn for Doran. Doran is the one in the wheel chair who got assassinated. Oberyn got his melon popped by the Mountain in both the book and show.

The show really hamfisted the whole Dorne thing. I think they are just trying to salvage it at this point and streamline it.

Doh! Yeah, I got them wrong. I had to google his name and looked at the wrong one. Fixed my post.

Yeah.....the whole Dorne thing just kind of removes all that from the story in a really brutal way.

If you are having trouble, I highly recommend going back and re-reading the last two books. I didn't have really high opinions of them, but really enjoyed them a lot more the second time. I picked up on a lot more, too. Starting now would be good and mean you are ready for the book to come out....eventually.

Word. It's been so long since I've read the books that I cannot remember which is a book plot or which is a show plot. I'll have to read book synopsis's when the new one drops to straighten myself out.

I know I should treat the series in the same way I treat The Walking Dead, completely diverged from the source material, but I somehow can't.

So I feel this is going the same way as Rome for me: disillusioned with tv writers who try to outspectacle the spectacle.

These were the betting odds for who would die first in season 6. Someone made some bank off Trystane!

Anyone betting against high sparrow tonight?

Great episode.

I'm glad that didn't take long.

OK, so got to ask - not last night's episode, but last weeks...

Sansa and Theon are on the run. They're being tracked by Bolton's boys and his hounds.

1: why wouldn't Ramsay lead the hunt himself (as he did EVERY OTHER TIME)

and

2: What the hell happened to the dogs?

Great episode.

I'm glad that didn't take long.

OK, so got to ask - not last night's episode, but last weeks...

Sansa and Theon are on the run. They're being tracked by Bolton's boys and his hounds.

1: why wouldn't Ramsay lead the hunt himself (as he did EVERY OTHER TIME)

and

2: What the hell happened to the dogs?

It makes no sense to me that Ramsay didn't go.

Saw the episode, here in Spain was 3:00 am when I saw it...

I am so happy, if FFG also announce Gunboat this week his could be best week of the year XD

OK, so got to ask - not last night's episode, but last weeks...

Sansa and Theon are on the run. They're being tracked by Bolton's boys and his hounds.

1: why wouldn't Ramsay lead the hunt himself (as he did EVERY OTHER TIME)

and

2: What the hell happened to the dogs?

That crew was from the Karstark's, not the Bolton's. Karstark Jr was the one who told Ramsey that they lost 6 of their best trackers. I'm guessing the Bolton's and Karstark's had multiple crews on the hunt, so Ramsey couldn't travel with all of them. The betrayal of the Karstark's isn't emphasized enough in the show, they were the Stark's right-hand men and should've been their best ally. Hell, their house motto is "The sun(son) of Winter." Their betrayal is arguably worse than the Bolton's or Frey's.

The Boltons are done. Now he will have the Freys and Lannisters wanting to put his head on a spike from the south. From the North they will have the Wildlings and the houses they will back Jon Stark-Targaryen.

I'm hoping Jon goes full savage and butchers the wall betrayers.

His Nedly sensibilities will probably free them. You know Ramsay is coming north, so he'll need every man.

Jon maybe changed by his resurrection though. Might not be the same Jon.

Jon maybe changed by his resurrection though. Might not be the same Jon.

Yea. I really hope this is not the case. I think grrm has some wiggle room for that. Thoros is a red priest. Thoros is responsible for raising 2 not-quite-right characters from the dead. But do we know he used red priest business to do that? Maybe he used blood magic like Mirro Mazz Durr.

My biggest new question after that episode:

Where exactly is Bran going? I assumed he was sort of replacing the 3-eyed Raven.

Jon maybe changed by his resurrection though. Might not be the same Jon.

Yea. I really hope this is not the case. I think grrm has some wiggle room for that. Thoros is a red priest. Thoros is responsible for raising 2 not-quite-right characters from the dead. But do we know he used red priest business to do that? Maybe he used blood magic like Mirro Mazz Durr.

OK....this did bug me that it's different than the book. The way they brought people back from the dead for the Red Priests is that the last rights ceremony is where the priest blows fire into the mouth of the victim. Very rarely, that person comes back to life. They remember most of their life, but the more it happens, they tend to forget details. Berric Dondarion is the first and Catlyn Stark is the second. I don't think they came back wrong or different. When we catch up with Dondarrion, he's just been revived too many times and not the same man. Catlyn was just furious at the betrayal and all her kids and dreams dying. I'd say her reaction was pretty normal.

I didn't like that they made it some special ritual that the Red Lady had to do. I also am having a hard time with her being all sad because all the stuff that happens to her in the tv show doesn't happen in the books. So, it's just kind of made up. She would've just done the last rites ritual as normal on Jon Snow and he would've popped up. I think they delayed it by an episode for dramatic effect.

My biggest new question after that episode:

Where exactly is Bran going? I assumed he was sort of replacing the 3-eyed Raven.

I think it's harder to explain Bran in the tv show. With all the stuff going on, they can't really explain it. It would take too long and they only have 50 min per episode. I think it's going like the books, but just told differently due to format. The bit about him leaving, though, is odd. Maybe it's not a physical leaving, too.

OH.......and I don't think that Tyrion not getting killed by the Dragons proves anything. It might be one thing that eventually comes true, but we don't know for sure.

I think Tyrion talking at length about his childhood obsession with dragons(continuing through adulthood in the books)is setting up his heritage reveal. It is only ~50 minutes. Why put that stuff in if it isn't going anywhere.

You guys should watch After the Thrones. It's on HBO the day after each episode. Last night they made an extremely revealing observation about Thoros and Melisandre's raising of dead men. They both did it after losing their faith, performing the ritual out of desperation, and pleading for the life. So I think the ritual might be failing, but something about the people performing it or receiving it is bringing men back. Something to think about anyways.

I'll admit that I'm warming to the idea of Tyrion being half Targaryen. I just don't think it's proven at the moment. Would that make her Danny's cousin? Danny's father was Rhaegar, who was brother to the Mad King. Mad King possibly Tyrion's father.....cousin....right?

After the Thrones? Oh, I'll have to check that out. I guess they took lessons from the Talking Dead?

Yeah, Thoros had lost his faith and regained it via the rite, but I hate that it had to be some special rite. I thought it much more interesting that they do it to all the dead and then the Red God just picks who he wants to bring back.

Rheagar was the Mad King's son. Tyrion would be Danny's uncle.

Jon maybe changed by his resurrection though. Might not be the same Jon.

I think that's a safe assumption. Both Lady Stoneheart and Berric have changed by being brought back. I'll point out its a bit funny a guy named "Jon Snow" was resurrected via a supposed god of fire.

Rheagar was the Mad King's son. Tyrion would be Danny's uncle.

From wiki:

Prince Rhaegar Targaryen is an unseen character inGame of Thrones. He is deceased when the events of the series commence. He was the elder son and heir of KingAerys II Targaryen, holding the title of Prince of Dragonstone. Rhaegar was the older brother of Viserys andDaenerys, though Daenerys was born after he died. He was the last great champion of House Targaryen.

So...I was wrong about Danny being Rhaegar's daughter. They were brother-sister. So, Tyrion would be a half-brother. Jon Snow would be her nephew.

I disagree. I don't think those characters were really changed when they came back. The only thing different was that they lacked a few memories. Well, Lady Stoneheart was crazier and wanting vengeance, but that's not really against Catlyn's character, either.