My only complaint with it is that they put an Elite upgrade on a 3 skill generic pilot. Which is just stupid as hell.

The whole concept of the elite pilot talent is just out the window at this point.

Yes I guess thats the thing. They shouldnt be able to take EPT

My only complaint with it is that they put an Elite upgrade on a 3 skill generic pilot. Which is just stupid as hell.

The whole concept of the elite pilot talent is just out the window at this point.

It's been like that for a long time. black Squadron TIEs were in the core set, weren't they?

They're not the first PS 3 with an EPT slot though...

*Looks at Green Squadron Pilots with 2 Elite slots...

Think of an EPT as a trick or specialized skill, and PS as overall skill. EPTs can be granted by droids or even shared among pilots. Of course even PS is pretty mutable. It's just a game mechanic, MST3k it.

Sorry I should have been more specific. I am talking about my local meta.

Doesn't matter your local meta or not. There is now proof that they aren't the end all be all. If your local group thinks that, maybe you need to show them it isn't? Try something oddball.

The cry of a ship killing diversity has been in this game since the beginning. People get hung up on that notion way to quickly.

Also sometimes you also have to realize when someone buys a new toy they might wanna use it a few times. This also can artificially decrease divisity for a small amount of time.

I've read most of these post and my first thought was, "Same soup, different plate".

does it take skill to point 3 scouts in the general direction of the opponent's side and launch torpedoes? I always wanted ordnance to be stronger, I regret it, I regret it all.

Yes, actually. Have you ever tried to fly 3 Large base ships. And set up a good cross fire.

I fly 2 ghosts with ABT, have you tried flying those between obstacles while also keeping your arcs on aces? the scouts only have to worry about their arc in the first couple of rounds, when it's easier.

People could also argue what the fun is in a ship that deals 4 auto damage a turn, you cant even roll dice to evade it.

you literally just said what the fun is

I don't play aces. my point is that the scouts have an enormous amount of firepower that requires little skill to bear. you can't win with aces or palpaces without some skill, but you can win with scouts with very little skill, while at the same time you need skill to beat them. that is my only complain.

well no, I also complain that on top of that they also get boba fett to go with their proton torps, and focus/TL each turn even after they are out of torps. I mean, my opponent kept apologizing for playing the list

There is something seriously fishy about the list you are describing.

If they have Focus/TL each turn, they have to have PTL (in which case no deadeye) or K4 (in which case no Boba). They're also not all firing Proton Torpedos if there are three ships, since the cost would go over 100 pts. The usual triple U list uses plasmas for this very reason. There is very, very little wiggle room for a triple U boat list, so either there were two loaded (and possibly a bumpmaster?) or they're not using all the tricks you're describing in one game. Not legally at least.

I'm 100% certain he means focus to agro mech TL. Which is completely possible.

I don't play aces. my point is that the scouts have an enormous amount of firepower that requires little skill to bear. you can't win with aces or palpaces without some skill, but you can win with scouts with very little skill, while at the same time you need skill to beat them. that is my only complain.

well no, I also complain that on top of that they also get boba fett to go with their proton torps, and focus/TL each turn even after they are out of torps. I mean, my opponent kept apologizing for playing the list

There is something seriously fishy about the list you are describing.

If they have Focus/TL each turn, they have to have PTL (in which case no deadeye) or K4 (in which case no Boba). They're also not all firing Proton Torpedos if there are three ships, since the cost would go over 100 pts. The usual triple U list uses plasmas for this very reason. There is very, very little wiggle room for a triple U boat list, so either there were two loaded (and possibly a bumpmaster?) or they're not using all the tricks you're describing in one game. Not legally at least.

R4 Agromech

I'm 100% certain he means focus to agro mech TL. Which is completely possible.

Yeah, I guess that could be "focus or TL" each turn. I was taking the slash to mean both focus AND target lock.

Edit: the rest of the point stands: Protons would be too expensive for all three ships to have, especially with boba. So unless he sacrificed Extra Munitions (in which case the list is pretty weak), he's not doing the Proton Boba trick legally. A tripe U boat list doesn't have room for even one ship to go Proton/Boba without cutting cost somewhere else.

Maybe mix in Biggs with R4-D6?

I'm 100% certain he means focus to agro mech TL. Which is completely possible.

Yeah, I guess that could be "focus or TL" each turn. I was taking the slash to mean both focus AND target lock.

Well, it IS both. Just in the non-ideal order (focus then TL)

I'm 100% certain he means focus to agro mech TL. Which is completely possible.

Yeah, I guess that could be "focus or TL" each turn. I was taking the slash to mean both focus AND target lock.

Well, it IS both. Just in the non-ideal order (focus then TL)

Fair enough.

Yeah, and I wasn't thrilled about that either. Pilots in the lower half of available skill levels shouldn't be considered "Elite".

I'm not against generics with Elite slots, but they should be high skill, like the RGP.

I have seen discusion about Biggs with R4-D6 as a counter to the alpha strike. Have to target Biggs, and R4-D6 helps midigate the damage that he can take. Means he has a better chance to tank all 3 scouts before going down. It'll still take min 2 scouts to kill him.

I've been thinking along the same lines, however a crit in the attack scuppers the plan as R4-D6 only cancels hits. That's why I cam up with this:

Biggs Darklighter — X-Wing - 25

R4-D6 - 1

Integrated Astromech - 0

Wes Janson — X-Wing - 29

Draw Their Fire - 1

R2-D2 - 4

Integrated Astromech - 0

Poe Dameron — T-70 X-Wing - 31

Veteran Instincts - 1

R5-P9 - 3

Autothrusters - 2

Thoughts?

Edit: the rest of the point stands: Protons would be too expensive for all three ships to have, especially with boba. So unless he sacrificed Extra Munitions (in which case the list is pretty weak), he's not doing the Proton Boba trick

So the list that won Hoth Open is 'pretty weak'?

You can drop 1 extra Munitions from 1 Jm and that makes room for more protons and/or some 1 point crew.

No. But, as the meta evolves, it also clearly isn't the dominating force that many people were crying about.

does it take skill to point 3 scouts in the general direction of the opponent's side and launch torpedoes? I always wanted ordnance to be stronger, I regret it, I regret it all.

Yes, actually. Have you ever tried to fly 3 Large base ships. And set up a good cross fire.

I fly 2 ghosts with ABT, have you tried flying those between obstacles while also keeping your arcs on aces? the scouts only have to worry about their arc in the first couple of rounds, when it's easier.

People could also argue what the fun is in a ship that deals 4 auto damage a turn, you cant even roll dice to evade it. Plus with your other VCX that's 6 auto damage. Yes it is at range 1, but it can also be said that it doesn't take a lot of skill to get a large base turreted ship to within range one of the enemy.

you can't fit 2 VCX with AC+ABT and have a shuttle on top of that, so it's 2 auto damage from each ghost. I think it takes skill in catching an ace because you have to set up your position in such a way that even if they boost and barrel roll they end up in your range 1.

If the OP is just now having their first un-fun game....then they are either new or have a high threshold for lists that beat you hard. I still can't let go of my Phantom hate, but I accept it.

phantoms don't delete a VCX in 2 turns. I don't care if I lose (I learn when I lose), I just don't like to play a 2 rounds game.

*Looks at Green Squadron Pilots with 2 Elite slots...

greens roll 2 dice, they do not have 4-5 almost autohits at range 2-3, and a turret

I'm 100% certain he means focus to agro mech TL. Which is completely possible.

Yeah, I guess that could be "focus or TL" each turn. I was taking the slash to mean both focus AND target lock.

Edit: the rest of the point stands: Protons would be too expensive for all three ships to have, especially with boba. So unless he sacrificed Extra Munitions (in which case the list is pretty weak), he's not doing the Proton Boba trick legally. A tripe U boat list doesn't have room for even one ship to go Proton/Boba without cutting cost somewhere else.

4 rounds of torpedoes and a couple of turret shots was all he needed to delete 2 VCX, you don't even need extra munitions on all of them. plasmas do almost guaranteed 5 damage to a VCX, and protons do almost guaranteed 4 damage (with at least 1 crit). 2 of them had protons, 1 had plasma

It's been like that for a long time. black Squadron TIEs were in the core set, weren't they?

Yeah, and I wasn't thrilled about that either. Pilots in the lower half of available skill levels shouldn't be considered "Elite".

I'm not against generics with Elite slots, but they should be high skill, like the RGP.

They're not the first PS 3 with an EPT slot though...

Then I hate those too, whatever they are.

its not hard for ordnance to look good when plasmas physically cant miss and get ez free shield damage. you did half the other guys work for him because you were hoping he was going to run things that you could get free kills on with double vcx, but instead you gave him the free kills since your list has a massive "kick me" sign on it

in a parallel universe the op played triple squint into double blastermaster vcx and made this same thread about how anti fun 4 unavoidable damage is after soontir got the alderaan treatment

its not hard for ordnance to look good when plasmas physically cant miss and get ez free shield damage. you did half the other guys work for him because you were hoping he was going to run things that you could get free kills on with double vcx, but instead you gave him the free kills since your list has a massive "kick me" sign on it

so I'm not supposed to play a VCX, a ship that came out in the same wave of the jumpmaster? whether you bring 1 or 2, one gets deleted in 2 rounds or so. the problem with plasma is that they were written when ordnance was hardly used, now with the jumpmaster they are too much. 3 points for almost garanteed 5 dmg at range 2-3. it's like adv. proton torpedoes that hit at range 2-3 with improved action economy (only 1 focus instead of TL+focus)

I call it the Space Rhino for a reason. Don't let them get those Range 2-3 shots in arc.

I call it the Space Rhino for a reason. Don't let them get those Range 2-3 shots in arc.

you realize that even if they all bump in a line into each other and into your ship, the outer one will be at range 2 of your ship