I wonder how they fair against a TIE swarm?

Poorly.

Zertik Strom and Carnor Jax pretty much neuter the 3 Jumpmaster list.

To be fair, I had this playing against the old Whisper.

I know it wasn't invincible, I beat it every now and then, that isn't the point. I hated that ship because it turned the game into something I didn't want to play.

For some people that was Dash, Turrets, regen, TLT, Acewing etc. Just saying 'ltp' at it really just ignores the issue for the player.

Exactly. When I first saw this thread I was sure it was gonna be a necro of PWTs, Phantoms, TLTs or other OP whatnot.

Good to see a donald association besides his lilliputian digits. I mean, his tiny, child-like hands are his most defining trait next to his oafish, uninformed, racist, wannabe fascist delusions that he spouts. Really, all that's missing is the distinct scent of cabbage and sadness, and his miniature, nubby paws would label him what he is: a carnie.

Someone who isn't a facechanging hypocrite is something new since...erm...Kennedy...

Wes+Biggs is a pretty interesting counter (Add Poe with DTF to stop proton torpedoes from getting crits), but one problem I did run into is Tractor Beams- They really screw over the traditional Biggs+2x approach since you can expose the glass cannon with one barrel roll.

Zertik Strom and Carnor Jax pretty much neuter the 3 Jumpmaster list.

agreed. imo 2 jumpmasters plus something else like hawk or misthunter or even 2x headhinters gives more versatility and a better game vs imp-aces/palp-aces lists, esp with feedback arrays.

Would people stop comparing the jumpmaster to the wild space fringer? We don't call the kirahxz underpriced because it's better than the vanilla Tie Advanced (pre-X1). FFG has struggled to get the prices of large ships right- The WSF, ORS, and Patrol Leader are all overpriced. The jumpmaster might be the first time they've gotten a generic pwt's price right.

It is kind of hard to get large based ship generics priced right. First in all large based ships they come with 3 unique and 1 generic while most other ships have a second generic that is only 1-2 more points from the base and may or may not have an EPT slot.

But the biggest problem with large ship generics is much like other high point cost ships once you spent over 22 points on a ship you might as well make that your unique ship and build around it. This is the same problem E-wing and Star-Vipers have. Generics are really only competitive if you could find a good build and make multiples of them in a single list. There are exceptions like Stress Hog and Palpmobile which often are generic pilots but you can get 4 unhinged thugs and 3 torpedo scouts thus making the generics that good.

Good to see a donald association besides his lilliputian digits. I mean, his tiny, child-like hands are his most defining trait next to his oafish, uninformed, racist, wannabe fascist delusions that he spouts. Really, all that's missing is the distinct scent of cabbage and sadness, and his miniature, nubby paws would label him what he is: a carnie.

Someone who isn't a facechanging hypocrite is something new since...erm...Kennedy...

you should watch the hilarious Trump vs Trump debate:

Trump: "I love the people of Iowa"

Trump: "How stupid are the people of Iowa?"

Political discussions aren't allowed on the forums (Even if I feel that the general moratorium on political discussions in public places is a terrible idea that runs counter to the needs of a democracy), so can we avoid discussing Trump the candidate, whatever you or I happen to think of him?

I wonder how they fair against a TIE swarm?

Depends on what your running.... 8 academies? Easy, Banzai 3 of them(1 into each) scout, and have the remaining 5 focus fire. Extra points if you can have your blockers set up in arc to take shots at the other ships they aren't touching. If your using Howlrunner or the crack swarm it might get a little trickier...

Political discussions aren't allowed on the forums (Even if I feel that the general moratorium on political discussions in public places is a terrible idea that runs counter to the needs of a democracy), so can we avoid discussing Trump the candidate, whatever you or I happen to think of him?

But I will TRUMP my opponents, when they feel the BERNIE, of my CRUZ missiles, from my HILLARY ship build.

I love how every time someone in this community doesn't like facing something, it always comes down to denigrating the skill of their opponent. Someone's got too much ordnance and alpha strikes really hard? Pfft, it doesn't take skill to just point your ship in the right direction for a few turns! Someone's got turrets on their ship? Pfft, flying those large bases doesn't take any skill, you're not even pointing your ship in the right direction! Someone flies aces? Pfft, it doesn't take any skill to just respond to my movements and arc dodge with your high PS, do you even lift, bro?

I wonder how deep the rabbit holes goes. I wonder if this goes all the way back. Like, when the first fan bought the first starter box, and then they played the first beginner game...did the first Imperial loser insist it didn't take any skill to play with those fancy three attack dice and all those shields, or did the first Rebel loser insist it didn't take any skill to beat up someone, two ships to one?

There is a pilot, who I think has a lot of potential against U-Boats, who I have not seen mentioned: Wes Janson. Seriously, the ability to flat-out prevent one of them from firing a torpedo is amazing. Pair him with Biggs with R4-D6 and IA and you have a very good chance of not losing any ships in the initial volley.

He did make the cut and top 8 in Chicago.

I love how every time someone in this community doesn't like facing something, it always comes down to denigrating the skill of their opponent. Someone's got too much ordnance and alpha strikes really hard? Pfft, it doesn't take skill to just point your ship in the right direction for a few turns! Someone's got turrets on their ship? Pfft, flying those large bases doesn't take any skill, you're not even pointing your ship in the right direction! Someone flies aces? Pfft, it doesn't take any skill to just respond to my movements and arc dodge with your high PS, do you even lift, bro?

I wonder how deep the rabbit holes goes. I wonder if this goes all the way back. Like, when the first fan bought the first starter box, and then they played the first beginner game...did the first Imperial loser insist it didn't take any skill to play with those fancy three attack dice and all those shields, or did the first Rebel loser insist it didn't take any skill to beat up someone, two ships to one?

Yes, that was a thing. Likewise, the first Rebel loser claimed that its no wonder that you win with twice the amount of ships. I have read both versions on the internet and even heard some of it in real life.

Depends on what your running.... 8 academies? Easy, Banzai 3 of them(1 into each) scout, and have the remaining 5 focus fire. Extra points if you can have your blockers set up in arc to take shots at the other ships they aren't touching. If your using Howlrunner or the crack swarm it might get a little trickier...

I've played them and with 7 academies, youngster and rage you can certainly make a mess. Slow in on turn 1, hit the gas on turn 2 and you should get a fair number into range 1. More importantly, hard turns and barrel rolls with a few ships can block the inevitable segnor's loop and set up a lovely action-denying train wreck.

With Howlrunner/Crack Shot swarms it's a bit harder because you risk being blocked rather than blocking, but even at range 2 a six-gun crack shot list can blow a jumpmaster to dust bunnies before it ever fires even with fairly average rolls, and - as noted, there's a pretty good chance of it needing both surviving ship's torpedoes to take down Howlrunner.

The size of the ship's bases is a big thing. In order to have any space to maneuver the jump-master 'line' is going to be spread across at least half of the board. If you can hoof it up a flank, it's possible to turn a line abreast into a line astern by the time they come at you - which should leave one ship out of range and cause problems as they try to move through rocks.

does it take skill to point 3 scouts in the general direction of the opponent's side and launch torpedoes? I always wanted ordnance to be stronger, I regret it, I regret it all.

Yes, actually. Have you ever tried to fly 3 Large base ships. And set up a good cross fire.

I fly 2 ghosts with ABT, have you tried flying those between obstacles while also keeping your arcs on aces? the scouts only have to worry about their arc in the first couple of rounds, when it's easier.

People could also argue what the fun is in a ship that deals 4 auto damage a turn, you cant even roll dice to evade it. Plus with your other VCX that's 6 auto damage. Yes it is at range 1, but it can also be said that it doesn't take a lot of skill to get a large base turreted ship to within range one of the enemy.

Political discussions aren't allowed on the forums (Even if I feel that the general moratorium on political discussions in public places is a terrible idea that runs counter to the needs of a democracy), so can we avoid discussing Trump the candidate, whatever you or I happen to think of him?

But I will TRUMP my opponents, when they feel the BERNIE, of my CRUZ missiles, from my HILLARY ship build.

HILLARIous just as the face of UUU when they see a "useless" hawk eat their tokens with OMNOMNOM sound while blocking a second U and being in R1 of the third.

I love how every time someone in this community doesn't like facing something, it always comes down to denigrating the skill of their opponent. Someone's got too much ordnance and alpha strikes really hard? Pfft, it doesn't take skill to just point your ship in the right direction for a few turns! Someone's got turrets on their ship? Pfft, flying those large bases doesn't take any skill, you're not even pointing your ship in the right direction! Someone flies aces? Pfft, it doesn't take any skill to just respond to my movements and arc dodge with your high PS, do you even lift, bro?

I wonder how deep the rabbit holes goes. I wonder if this goes all the way back. Like, when the first fan bought the first starter box, and then they played the first beginner game...did the first Imperial loser insist it didn't take any skill to play with those fancy three attack dice and all those shields, or did the first Rebel loser insist it didn't take any skill to beat up someone, two ships to one?

Yes, that was a thing. Likewise, the first Rebel loser claimed that its no wonder that you win with twice the amount of ships. I have read both versions on the internet and even heard some of it in real life.

I'm not very surprised, but I can say I'm disappointed, I guess. My joke turned out to be real.

does it take skill to point 3 scouts in the general direction of the opponent's side and launch torpedoes? I always wanted ordnance to be stronger, I regret it, I regret it all.

Yes, actually. Have you ever tried to fly 3 Large base ships. And set up a good cross fire.

I fly 2 ghosts with ABT, have you tried flying those between obstacles while also keeping your arcs on aces? the scouts only have to worry about their arc in the first couple of rounds, when it's easier.

People could also argue what the fun in a ship that deals 4 auto damage a turn, cant even roll dice to evade it. Plus with your other VCX that's 6 auto damage. Yes it is at range 1, but it can be said that it doesn't take a lot of skill to get a large base, turreted ship, to within range one of the enemy.

This. In the end fun is subjective and I'm reasonably sure that for most X-wing players there are some lists and mechanics they find unfunded. Be it turrets, PS9+ aces with repositioning, Regen, stress on attack, swarms etc., name anything in this game and I'm sure somebody finds it NPE.

Biggest issue I have with them is they killed the diversity of the game. Now it's just Palp aces and Jumpmasters. I've been trying to come up with a list that handles both aces and u-boats and I'm drawing a blank. I can build a list that counters one but loses to the other hard. Can't wait for veterans maybe that will shake it up a bit more to bring back the diversity.

The new meta is just now truly starting to form up. Yes, Palp Aces and U-boats will be the gatekeepers, and the ones you see the most often. But look at the New York, New Mexico, and Georgia top squads. Holy cow, those are some crazy new squads that are doing well. Is it the same as what it was, no. But change means what was good isn't necessarily mean it is still as good. Which is how the meta shifts.

(Seriously, anyone complaining about the meta when 5 A-wings wins two Regionals makes me question if they are actually looking at results)

Sorry I should have been more specific. I am talking about my local meta.

Sorry I should have been more specific. I am talking about my local meta.

Doesn't matter your local meta or not. There is now proof that they aren't the end all be all. If your local group thinks that, maybe you need to show them it isn't? Try something oddball.

The cry of a ship killing diversity has been in this game since the beginning. People get hung up on that notion way to quickly.

Also sometimes you also have to realize when someone buys a new toy they might wanna use it a few times. This also can artificially decrease divisity for a small amount of time.

I have seen discusion about Biggs with R4-D6 as a counter to the alpha strike. Have to target Biggs, and R4-D6 helps midigate the damage that he can take. Means he has a better chance to tank all 3 scouts before going down. It'll still take min 2 scouts to kill him.

If the OP is just now having their first un-fun game....then they are either new or have a high threshold for lists that beat you hard. I still can't let go of my Phantom hate, but I accept it.

My only complaint with it is that they put an Elite upgrade on a 3 skill generic pilot. Which is just stupid as hell.

The whole concept of the elite pilot talent is just out the window at this point.