You missed the boat on that one. The decimator and falcon defined the meta of a few waves alone. Wave 4-6 saw mostly those two ships. Now we actually are seeing a much wider base.

(Edit) and just for the record I've been playing from the start and I hated the fat pancake, avoid-the-table-edge meta and the demon-spawn offspring of the pre-nerf phantom meta that it gave rise to..

You missed the boat on that one. The decimator and falcon defined the meta of a few waves alone. Wave 4-6 saw mostly those two ships. Now we actually are seeing a much wider base.

Oh hooray! So it's happening again with wave 8

Been here since Wave II...

BTW, on this side of the Atlantic, the slang verb "trump" is to loudly expel trapped digestive gases. Just so you know.

Adopted into Cockney rhyming slang "By 'eck, those eggs are sitting heavy, I can't stop Donalding"

Good to see a donald association besides his lilliputian digits. I mean, his tiny, child-like hands are his most defining trait next to his oafish, uninformed, racist, wannabe fascist delusions that he spouts. Really, all that's missing is the distinct scent of cabbage and sadness, and his miniature, nubby paws would label him what he is: a carnie.

Biggest issue I have with them is they killed the diversity of the game. Now it's just Palp aces and Jumpmasters. I've been trying to come up with a list that handles both aces and u-boats and I'm drawing a blank. I can build a list that counters one but loses to the other hard. Can't wait for veterans maybe that will shake it up a bit more to bring back the diversity.

Incorrect

Biggest issue I have with them is they killed the diversity of the game. Now it's just Palp aces and Jumpmasters. I've been trying to come up with a list that handles both aces and u-boats and I'm drawing a blank. I can build a list that counters one but loses to the other hard. Can't wait for veterans maybe that will shake it up a bit more to bring back the diversity.

The new meta is just now truly starting to form up. Yes, Palp Aces and U-boats will be the gatekeepers, and the ones you see the most often. But look at the New York, New Mexico, and Georgia top squads. Holy cow, those are some crazy new squads that are doing well. Is it the same as what it was, no. But change means what was good isn't necessarily mean it is still as good. Which is how the meta shifts.

(Seriously, anyone complaining about the meta when 5 A-wings wins two Regionals makes me question if they are actually looking at results)

For Scum Palob is pure gold - I'm actually interested to see if double U-boats + Palob becomes a thing, perhaps with 98 point initiative over triple Jumpmaster lists. The difficulty is the HWK's dial - being caught at range 3 is a death sentence.

I actually flew two Jumpmasters alongside Torkil in a seasonal kit tournament just yesterday, the idea being in the 'mirror' match Torkil drops an enemy Jumpmaster to PS0 so I can try to take one out without simultaneous fire. Torkil being cheaper lets me take Recon Spec on the Jumpmasters as well, increasing their defense a bit.

In the end that day I ended up facing nothing but Imperial Ace builds beyond the first round. Part of it might be that I hadn't flown them before, but that seems to be a tricky matchup for the Jumpmaster, at least in terms of getting shots. The dial can be awkward if rebel captive stressed you out and you want to turn right. Chasing Soontir down if you didn't manage to get him in the opening exchange, which is tough with only two torps if he token stacks, is also a nightmare at PS3. A lot of times I didn't get to fire a second round of torps due to arc dodging. Torkil did a lot of work, even if the main reason for flying him didn't come up, dropping phantoms to PS0 to get them before recloak, letting me deny attacks from ships that would have otherwise fired first just as planned. 4 rounds and a top 4 cut and I lost once to Vader+Soontir+Inquisitor, and beating him in our rematch at the final table.

Biggest issue I have with them is they killed the diversity of the game. Now it's just Palp aces and Jumpmasters. I've been trying to come up with a list that handles both aces and u-boats and I'm drawing a blank. I can build a list that counters one but loses to the other hard. Can't wait for veterans maybe that will shake it up a bit more to bring back the diversity.

The new meta is just now truly starting to form up. Yes, Palp Aces and U-boats will be the gatekeepers, and the ones you see the most often. But look at the New York, New Mexico, and Georgia top squads. Holy cow, those are some crazy new squads that are doing well. Is it the same as what it was, no. But change means what was good isn't necessarily mean it is still as good. Which is how the meta shifts.

(Seriously, anyone complaining about the meta when 5 A-wings wins two Regionals makes me question if they are actually looking at results)

Not to forget the fact that Imperial Veterans will be here soon, which will open up the meta even more: Tractor Beam Vessery is a beast, not to mention the potential of bomber squads to PS kill Jumpmasters.

Gammas can already do that. 3 Gammas + Jonus should work pretty well. Though, I am looking forward more towards shuttle Jonus.

Biggest issue I have with them is they killed the diversity of the game. Now it's just Palp aces and Jumpmasters. I've been trying to come up with a list that handles both aces and u-boats and I'm drawing a blank. I can build a list that counters one but loses to the other hard. Can't wait for veterans maybe that will shake it up a bit more to bring back the diversity.

What you need is triple penetration, a list with three defenders that'll rock your world:

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35

Veteran Instincts 1

Ion Cannon 3

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 39

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30

Ion Cannon 3

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 33

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 28

It'll put a smile on your face.

I took 2 loaded Royal Tie Guards, Backstabber and 2 academies to a tournament yesterday, mainly for a fun list. Faced 3 Uboats my first game. Destroyed one and had a second to one hull. In the last round with an Interceptor and Academy left, my dice went cold and I failed to knock out the wounded Uboat. Lost the Interceptor and game88-50, but if dice had been better, that could have easily been a 67-58 win. One more shield and I also would have gotten half points on the 3rd ship. So these guys can be frustrating, but I don't have any real fear of running into them again. The fun part was blocking them with the academies to take away their shots with torps.

let me guess, you play acewing.

good to see acewing faceplant!

The problem is that there are only 2 people that hated (Rebel) Aces. You and PGS. The rest of us enjoyed the meta as it was pre-wave 8 in all its diversity... Which was in fact a lot of aces plus TLT and crackswarms.

And then there is the fact that Acewing did in fact not faceplant because PalpAces in a few variants continues to be the most successful squad. You are not against aces, you are against Rebels or Rebel aces. No idea why, maybe they stole your lollipop at some time?

But at least be honest please, so other people see what you are about!

I hate Acewing in general. My most hated Acewing is Soontir.

That being said, triple Jumpmaster has done wonders for the meta. It has helped to (further) curbstomp fat turrets and regen and quad TLT from the game. All that NPE stuff is gone. If Rebels have no viable builds anymore good. Pretty much everything viable they had was based around some no skill NPE game mechanic.

Also, it's not even true that Rebels have no viable builds. Think better, there is more to squad building than slapping a ~40 point Poe next to a ~60 point Han.

let me guess, you play acewing.

good to see acewing faceplant!

The problem is that there are only 2 people that hated (Rebel) Aces. You and PGS. The rest of us enjoyed the meta as it was pre-wave 8 in all its diversity... Which was in fact a lot of aces plus TLT and crackswarms.

And then there is the fact that Acewing did in fact not faceplant because PalpAces in a few variants continues to be the most successful squad. You are not against aces, you are against Rebels or Rebel aces. No idea why, maybe they stole your lollipop at some time?

But at least be honest please, so other people see what you are about!

I prefer genericwing to Acewing in general. My most hated Acewing is Soontir.

That being said, triple Jumpmaster has done wonders for the meta. It has helped to (further) curbstomp fat turrets and regen and quad TLT from the game. All that NPE stuff is gone. If Rebels have no viable builds anymore, then good. Pretty much everything viable they had was based around some no skill NPE game mechanic.

Also, it's not even true that Rebels have no viable builds. Think better, there is more to squad building than slapping a ~40 point Poe next to a ~60 point Han.

Let's see what you hate: turrets, TLT's, Aces, Rebels - in fact it seems you hate pretty much almost whole X-Wing. Why do you bother to still play this game? Or for that matter spit the venom on this forum?

But the most funny thing is how happy you are with no brain alpha strike list like triple U-boats, yet you hate on Aces lists - type of lists that require careful flying and are based on good positioning.

I hate turrets.

TLT I don't actually hate, but I acknowledge that it's an NPE. It wiped fat turrets from the meta in wave 7. It was vengeance for Turretwing players, now they knew what it was like to drown in turrets. Turrets take skill right?

Regen I hate. Gonk is okay though because it's actually balanced and requires you to do more than just 1 green straight to victory.

All that matters in Acewing games is who boosts last.

I don't hate Rebels. I just hate that all of their competitive stuff takes no skill and ruins the game. I went to my FLGS and put in an order for two Ghosts yesterday actually, and I love flying quad R7 Astromech T-65's.

Biggest issue I have with them is they killed the diversity of the game. Now it's just Palp aces and Jumpmasters. I've been trying to come up with a list that handles both aces and u-boats and I'm drawing a blank. I can build a list that counters one but loses to the other hard. Can't wait for veterans maybe that will shake it up a bit more to bring back the diversity.

What you need is triple penetration, a list with three defenders that'll rock your world:

Colonel Vessery — TIE Defender 35

Veteran Instincts 1

Ion Cannon 3

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 39

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30

Ion Cannon 3

TIE/D 0

Ship Total: 33

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30

TIE/x7 -2

Ship Total: 286

It'll put a smile on your face.

Yeah, I'm awaiting the complaint threads about Vessery.

Yeah, I'm awaiting the complaint threads about Vessery.

They are almost here, already had some of that in the squadbuilding subforum :/

Yeah, I'm awaiting the complaint threads about Vessery.

They are almost here, already had some of that in the squadbuilding subforum :/

To be fair, he is the one Defender that is already good. The titles kind of do push him over the top.

At least he isn't a Boostwing though.

Yes, it does take skill to coordinate 3 large ships to focus fire on the same target in 3 arcs in the first round. I have watched people pick up the list thinking it required no skill to play, not realize the difference between flying small vs large ships in formation, and spend the first few turns bumping their own ships into each other. I have also seen many players new to the list roll their dice before using their salvaged Astromech ability, which means you don't get to use it.

A skilled player can force the first exchange at range 1 where they can't fire their torps. If you're running VCXs, and they setup across from you, just start with a 2-straight, which will keep you out of range of their torpedoes no matter what maneuver they do, and then use the rule of 16 to make your next maneuver put you into range 1 of them no matter how slow they go. If you don't know the rule of 16 (aka the rule of 11),then you still have some stuff to learn about this game. Just be glad that TLT lists are now being driven out of the game.

I lost initiative and so I couldn't bump (I am dropping my list to a 99 initiative bid next try). I managed to engage 2 of them while keeping 1 out of range. I managed to be at range 1 of two of them in the second round of combat. they still do 4-5 almost guaranteed damage with torps, and with focus/TL droid they do 2-3 dmg even at range 1 with their turret. and on top of that boba fett removed my most important upgrade.

the reason I did not have fun is that the game was over in 2 turns. even when I play against aces and I lose, I still get to play several rounds. I don't play to win I play to have fun. ending the game in 2 rounds is not fun.

I don't think a list should make 13 almost guaranteed damage in one round while at the same time still having enough shields and agility to last a few rounds. yes a swarm can output a lot of damage, but you can kill a tie per round at least. yes quad TLTs were annoying, but at most they did 8 dmg in a round, and TLTs usually have low hp and low agility, less than the scouts, so you can kill TLT carrier more easily.

Edited cause autocorrect decided the T in trump needed capitalization.

...and so it begins... *shudder*

President Trump has already passed an executive order that the word Trump shall be capitalized at all times

I'm concerned that any fix that FFG puts out in the next few expansions will nerf all ordinance instead of the specific combo that makes U-Boats so effective.

Think of new ways you can defeat your challenges in life instead of just playing the victim.

Or in the modern parlance

Git gud

There will be many a tear and cry of broken when vets hits, and i shall drink their tears!

Bump em and U boats are not vey frightening at all. A combination of a low pilot skill ship and arc dodgers can beat the 3 scouts with practice. If the scouts have feedback array, then its a little harder. I would like to know if there are any rebel lists that can stand up to these dreaded u boat lists. Does anyone have any thoughts on this - lists wise?

Furthermore - to beat any list, fly it to know it's weaknesses.

Jumps aren't broken, but for casual players they're pretty close to a NPE (Negative Play Experience).

They hit anything not ready for them super hard, so while in competition they find players suitably drilled to face them anybody just wandering into the match with their favourite squad list is going get treated very roughly.

Jumps aren't broken, but for casual players they're pretty close to a NPE (Negative Play Experience).

They hit anything not ready for them super hard, so while in competition they find players suitably drilled to face them anybody just wandering into the match with their favourite squad list is going get treated very roughly.

That could be said about anything. I remember my early days (pre Wave 4) going up against a Falcon with gunner and spending my evade token to cancel the last hit. Well I ended up triggering Gunner and took a lot more damage than 1. I learned never cancel a gunner attack with tokens as you won't have them in the next attack.

My worst game to this day was chewie with c3po on board, i won but got no joy from it.

Would people stop comparing the jumpmaster to the wild space fringer? We don't call the kirahxz underpriced because it's better than the vanilla Tie Advanced (pre-X1). FFG has struggled to get the prices of large ships right- The WSF, ORS, and Patrol Leader are all overpriced. The jumpmaster might be the first time they've gotten a generic pwt's price right.