Then don't get in that line???

Again, this goes to the whole difficulty of arranging all large base arcs onto one target.

Interestingly no-one's mentioned the IGs yet.

Higher PS + large ship boost + 8 hit points behind 3 agility and Autothrusters makes for a decent combo - it will usually take three torp hits to down one, with an outside chance at four if the green dice are nice. Meanwhile boost is fantastic for getting into R1. Finally in the end-game auto-thrusters neuters the 2-attack turret very nicely.

As an extra sensor jammers really shut down the torpedoes as the Jumpmaster doesn't have a focus to spare... that dice can be GC'd, but it definitely reduces the chance of those four hits each time they're fired.

Just a theory but it might be worth testing out. Has anyone flown the brobots against a triple U-boat list yet?

While dual VCX is probably a bad list to take against U-boats as you have 0 agility (green dice can mess with Torps hard) and only 2 attacks, one VCX plus some support is far from helpless. You have 16 hp, which means it usually takes 4 Torps to kill one (or 3 Torps and some regular attacks if you feel lucky). By the end if round 2, when the VCX dies, a Jumpmaster should be dead as well. All the rest of your list needs to do is handle 2 (almost) torpless JMs.

Of course, odds are the U-Boat player won't focus the VCX first, but then it comes down to tactics.

its not hard for ordnance to look good when plasmas physically cant miss and get ez free shield damage. you did half the other guys work for him because you were hoping he was going to run things that you could get free kills on with double vcx, but instead you gave him the free kills since your list has a massive "kick me" sign on it

so I'm not supposed to play a VCX, a ship that came out in the same wave of the jumpmaster? whether you bring 1 or 2, one gets deleted in 2 rounds or so. the problem with plasma is that they were written when ordnance was hardly used, now with the jumpmaster they are too much. 3 points for almost garanteed 5 dmg at range 2-3. it's like adv. proton torpedoes that hit at range 2-3 with improved action economy (only 1 focus instead of TL+focus)

Just because your list got the snot beaten out of it, that doesn't mean the ships in your list have been banished from the game by the evil OP jump-god! Double ghost sounds fun, but you must acknowledge that it's the kind of list that will have hard-counters to it. Damage spike lists (where you can't evade or reposition, so have to eat the pain) and ace lists (where high PS and reposition allows them to chew you to pieces) seem the most obvioust two counters, and of course two of the most popular top-tier builds in the game at the moment are triplejump and palp's aces.

its not hard for ordnance to look good when plasmas physically cant miss and get ez free shield damage. you did half the other guys work for him because you were hoping he was going to run things that you could get free kills on with double vcx, but instead you gave him the free kills since your list has a massive "kick me" sign on it

so I'm not supposed to play a VCX, a ship that came out in the same wave of the jumpmaster? whether you bring 1 or 2, one gets deleted in 2 rounds or so. the problem with plasma is that they were written when ordnance was hardly used, now with the jumpmaster they are too much. 3 points for almost garanteed 5 dmg at range 2-3. it's like adv. proton torpedoes that hit at range 2-3 with improved action economy (only 1 focus instead of TL+focus)

Just because your list got the snot beaten out of it, that doesn't mean the ships in your list have been banished from the game by the evil OP jump-god! Double ghost sounds fun, but you must acknowledge that it's the kind of list that will have hard-counters to it. Damage spike lists (where you can't evade or reposition, so have to eat the pain) and ace lists (where high PS and reposition allows them to chew you to pieces) seem the most obvioust two counters, and of course two of the most popular top-tier builds in the game at the moment are triplejump and palp's aces.

sure you may be right, and perhaps my list needs some changes to be more competitive, but my main complaint is that the triple scouts just deletes the VCX so fast, the game was over in 2 rounds. against aces it takes several rounds, and the AC+gunners gives them pause. I have fun trying to outsmart the repositioning aces, I had no fun getting deleted by a torpedo salvo that requires only to point the arc at the enemy at range 3 and then roll a bunch of dice with TL and guidance chips.

I mean I don't roll any agility. with plasma they do guaranteed 1 hit from guidance chips, guaranteed shield token, and 3 dice with TL, so usually 4-5 damage. you don't think it's excessive? I could take sensor jammer but then I lose AC or FCS.

Given the success that single VCX squads have had, I am going to say that your personal experiences are not reflective of the game as a whole.

Without actually seeing the game, there is not much advice we can give that you are not already ignoring.

sure you may be right, and perhaps my list needs some changes to be more competitive, but my main complaint is that the triple scouts just deletes the VCX so fast, the game was over in 2 rounds. against aces it takes several rounds, and the AC+gunners gives them pause. I have fun trying to outsmart the repositioning aces, I had no fun getting deleted by a torpedo salvo that requires only to point the arc at the enemy at range 3 and then roll a bunch of dice with TL and guidance chips.

I mean I don't roll any agility. with plasma they do guaranteed 1 hit from guidance chips, guaranteed shield token, and 3 dice with TL, so usually 4-5 damage. you don't think it's excessive? I could take sensor jammer but then I lose AC or FCS.

I'm no fan of the jumpmasters, but this is a stupid statement. The fact that one particular list performs poorly against them (and one that is specifically bad against them - lack of moving, bumping or green dice) is not a reason to dislike a list. It would be like saying you hate double VCX with AB and AC because you run palp aces and Soontir got one shotted...

Hate the jumpmasters because of their low low price and shenanigans, not because your list blows in the match-up.

Sidenote - played them for the first time in our spring tourney - not particularly well flown, but bashed them with Rebel Aces - go go Corran Horn!

its not hard for ordnance to look good when plasmas physically cant miss and get ez free shield damage. you did half the other guys work for him because you were hoping he was going to run things that you could get free kills on with double vcx, but instead you gave him the free kills since your list has a massive "kick me" sign on it

so I'm not supposed to play a VCX, a ship that came out in the same wave of the jumpmaster? whether you bring 1 or 2, one gets deleted in 2 rounds or so. the problem with plasma is that they were written when ordnance was hardly used, now with the jumpmaster they are too much. 3 points for almost garanteed 5 dmg at range 2-3. it's like adv. proton torpedoes that hit at range 2-3 with improved action economy (only 1 focus instead of TL+focus)

Just because your list got the snot beaten out of it, that doesn't mean the ships in your list have been banished from the game by the evil OP jump-god! Double ghost sounds fun, but you must acknowledge that it's the kind of list that will have hard-counters to it. Damage spike lists (where you can't evade or reposition, so have to eat the pain) and ace lists (where high PS and reposition allows them to chew you to pieces) seem the most obvioust two counters, and of course two of the most popular top-tier builds in the game at the moment are triplejump and palp's aces.

sure you may be right, and perhaps my list needs some changes to be more competitive, but my main complaint is that the triple scouts just deletes the VCX so fast, the game was over in 2 rounds. against aces it takes several rounds, and the AC+gunners gives them pause. I have fun trying to outsmart the repositioning aces, I had no fun getting deleted by a torpedo salvo that requires only to point the arc at the enemy at range 3 and then roll a bunch of dice with TL and guidance chips.

I mean I don't roll any agility. with plasma they do guaranteed 1 hit from guidance chips, guaranteed shield token, and 3 dice with TL, so usually 4-5 damage. you don't think it's excessive? I could take sensor jammer but then I lose AC or FCS.

Your putting all your eggs into one basket.

It won't be just the u-boats that'll give you trouble

Wait till Imperial vets comes out.

Swarms is another that will shred a two ship build with 0 agility.

I suggest that if people you play against are using these types of builds then maybe fly something else?

Maybe rear Admiral chiro with engine upgrade, rebel captive and predator with a bunch of ties for example

Use asteroids to your advantage

Set them up in a tight cluster and try get him to engage in your terms.

If your flying straight at them, what can you expect?