FFG made the x-wing specifically so you couldn't field five at once. 5 x-wings would be really powerful...

Sorry to rain on your parade...

But if we are talking about an x-wing fix, we need a barrel roll...

Yeah, back before Wave 1. The Kihraxz is a thing that exists, you know. And you can run 5 of them. This argument doesn't really have much validity anymore. I mean, you're right; The X-Wing DOES need some kind of repositioning option to be good at dogfighting. But i dont think running 5 X-Wings would be that big of a deal.

I just want to point out that Rookie/R2/IA x4 + Bandit made the cut at Chicago. And then went on to Top 8.

Rakaydos - "So you've never been to a Regional or major Store Championship? Because the lists you hand in at the beginning usually get uploaded to Juggler by the tourny organizer. (if you look, you can find my Drea/Leachos list actually making a cut on there, despite me personally never entering it)

But when we are talking about adding a fix the the Xwing, and the same fix also work for certian underused T70 pilots, there's no reason to bend over backwards to exclude the T70 from the Xwing fix."

I said I have not personally entered my list into the Juggler, I have been to major store tournaments so of course lists of mine have, but I have not entered them in myself. Also I took 10th at a store championship here in Louisiana, and one of only two people to beat me went to regionals the other week and won it overall- Seth.

The T-70 doesnt need a fix! Its almost still brand new (what about 6-8 months now). And it really certainly doesnt need he same amount of help (or any) that the T65 needs, not to mention to have some VARIATION in the game, it shouldnt get the same title or other fix that the T-65 gets. So yeah FFG should bend over bacwards to make sure whatever they do doesnt also help the T-70

At this point i'm really just over arguing with you. you seem like you cant be without EPTs and if that is true then good for you. but that doesnt mean those are bad pilots. And yes most metas require a ship to have an ept to be in the top percentie of pilots for that ship. But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall. Too bad for you not being able to figure out how to make them competitive without your precious EPT slot, that doesnt require an asto-slot. Woe is you!

Honestly, I think a great, unique fix would be a double sided card that deals with the closed/opened s-foils. And hopefully a few extra integrated astromechs!

I think s-foils would be better as an action toke sort of like cloak (only without all the decloak mechanics). Dual card does last for the entire game so there is no flipping for it.

But I think we can expect more dual cards in the next wave. I hope FFG expands on this mechanic.

When I think about a dual upgrade for the X-Wing I'm thinking something that alters what fire-link mode it is set at. Many of the s-foil suggestions I've seen I'd consider to be just crazy especially as some have the card flip-flopping every time it is used.

While dual upgrades currently lack a mechanic to change sides once in play it is something that could be done. If done I believe it will most likely be some kind of reset mechanic essentially meaning it is actually one upgrade but with a delayed way to re use it.

I personally would love a dual and quad fire mode. Which yes could be applied to all Xwings, but I'd hope that wouldnt be the T--65 fix if they did that....just more of something thematic for all Xwings.

Maybe dual fire be: 2AD, but you get to shoot twice at the same target. Though I can see that being a bit good against some targets if they dont have much agility (ie the Decimator).

another option I saw someone else suggest for different firing modes is the possible removal of an evade token on the enemy target if you do "dual linked mode" but then you reduce your AD to 2.

Honestly, I think a great, unique fix would be a double sided card that deals with the closed/opened s-foils. And hopefully a few extra integrated astromechs!

I think s-foils would be better as an action toke sort of like cloak (only without all the decloak mechanics). Dual card does last for the entire game so there is no flipping for it.

But I think we can expect more dual cards in the next wave. I hope FFG expands on this mechanic.

When I think about a dual upgrade for the X-Wing I'm thinking something that alters what fire-link mode it is set at. Many of the s-foil suggestions I've seen I'd consider to be just crazy especially as some have the card flip-flopping every time it is used.

While dual upgrades currently lack a mechanic to change sides once in play it is something that could be done. If done I believe it will most likely be some kind of reset mechanic essentially meaning it is actually one upgrade but with a delayed way to re use it.

I could see maybe a system or tech slot upgrade (leaning more towards tech) that allowed for dual upgrade cards to be flipped by use of an action. Still there will have to be some clarification. Just taking a look at the only dual upgrade card and flipping that in an action step comes with question of when does the face up card take effect? If not careful a player could move twice, say first at pilot skill 3 then at pilot skill 5.

Speaking about pilot skill 5 well any ship at pilot skill 5 is in a bad spot . Blue Ace (that derpy 1st move crash into a rock to get an evade token) is a T-70, A T-70 was in the championship list for Worlds 2015. So the T-70 does't need any help at all. What needs help is mid-range pilot skill as it gets the worst of both worlds getting outmaneuvered and outgunned by higher PS and ountnumbered and blocked by lower PS.

The argument that T-70s needs a fix because Blue Ace doesn't play as well as Poe is like Arguing that TIE Interceptors need a fix because Fel's Wrath is not as good as Soontir Fel

But here is an idea for a dual upgrade for maybe fixing those poor skill 5 ships. Maybe an upgrade that will add 4 pilot in the activation phase (to a maximum of 9) but subtract 4 in the combat phase (to a minimum of 1), and on the flip side the opposite. That could work out for both Fel's Wrath and Blue Ace (and Nera). Now the only question is what upgrade slot to put it in and what point cost (4 maybe). The Fel's Wrath dilemma of no upgrade slots is starting to prove to be a difficult problem.

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Hobbie? Who can't take an EPT? Or do you mean Porkins?

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Well Hobbie Cant have Stay on Target...so your build is illegal.

But okay, here is one for Red Ace, that I already stated two pages or so ago!!! But then weve already established you dont look at suggestions much.

Red Ace: Shield Upgrade (or autothrusters if you like them better- I prefer shields in cases where I regen and have the points-makes sure I can regenerate even more ofthem which makes her harder to kill), R2-D2, CommRelay.

Maybe just a 1pt title that gives an evade token after performing a green maneuver. You can add R2 Astro to have more of your dial green. Now it gives the Xwing a bit more defense when jousting which is the real problem, they die too quickly. Opens up a bit more power with Juke combo and lets the aftermath of 4kturns not seem so bad when you clear the stress with the crappy green dial and get an evade to survive another round. R2 Astro + Juke + EU on Wedge with the 1pt title. Nice 37pt Jouster right there. Or BB8 for 38pts.

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Hobbie? Who can't take an EPT? Or do you mean Porkins?

Porkins can take an EPT he just can't take R2-D6.

Hobbie can take an EPT if he takes R2-D6 for an additional point added on top of the EPT.

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Hobbie? Who can't take an EPT? Or do you mean Porkins?

Porkins can take an EPT he just can't take R2-D6.

Hobbie can take an EPT if he takes R2-D6 for an additional point added on top of the EPT.

Yes but then he can't take TA so the combo is still illegal.

How about Chardan Refit on T-65? -2 or 3 points and T65 are more useful. And come on, how often do you use torpedo on X-Wing?

Lol, another fix the X-Wing thread!

Still it is pretty interesting to see a very new person on the Forum probably make his first thread about fixing the **** X-Wing. That probably means everyone, even the new players can see that the ship is bad and needs help...

How about Chardan Refit on T-65? -2 or 3 points and T65 are more useful. And come on, how often do you use torpedo on X-Wing?

Lol, another fix the X-Wing thread!

Still it is pretty interesting to see a very new person on the Forum probably make his first thread about fixing the **** X-Wing. That probably means everyone, even the new players can see that the ship is bad and needs help...

...to be helped beyond any reasonable limit, making it a facerolling son of a Hutt...

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Hobbie? Who can't take an EPT? Or do you mean Porkins?

Porkins can take an EPT he just can't take R2-D6.

Hobbie can take an EPT if he takes R2-D6 for an additional point added on top of the EPT.

Yes but then he can't take TA so the combo is still illegal.

The whole argument is abput a hypothetical xwing title that grants an ept if you do not have one already. Knavelead and marinealver want to add language to prevent the T70 xwing from taking it. They presen personal anecdotes to support their claim that blue and red ace (the only affected T70s) are already competitive, and insult my personal flying skill when I bring up tournament data that says that says their anecdotes are outliers.

Its just an EPT, guys. One that helps hobbie far more than red ace, by enabling the combo I posted. The ability to change ypur maneuver every turn and get double mods is worth more to hobbie than any single ept is worth to red ace.

Absolutely No.

Maybe an upgrade that reduces the point of the torpedo slot upgrade by 2 points but remove the slot all together is a no. The Chardaan refit killed a lot of design space by the devs and they are just starting to repair the damage. But missiles are still out of the game and Chardaan cold be part of the reason.

Could you elaborate on this? I am curious about what you mean.

I would think it had the opposite effect.

Edit: Nevermind. Duh.

Probably best not to antagonize that person.

Seriously if someone is ignoring the fact the the T-70 Poe Dameron is in the world championship list of 2015 and still thinks it is underpowered then it is apparent that this individual does not know how to play X-wing competitively and is angered that their personal pet build is not competitive.

Well that is competitive miniatures for you. There are good list and their are suboptimal lists. However just because one pilot selection for a model doesn't work so well if there is a different pilot card in the same pack then it is not FFGs fault you don't play the best pilot card for the model.

Poe is not blue ace.

Rakaydos said "I already said my "world" is the competitive scene, whrtr Red Ace in on the low wnd of reasonable and blue ace is considered underpowered.

Im not sure why you insist on making personal attacks. We are talking a hypothetical Xwing fix following the rules as written to apply to the T70. Giving an ept to those without, in combination with the astro slot, is a minor buff that forces poin ts to be spent. It doesnt affect poe at all."

Look sorry if you felt attacked, but you seem to be capable of dishing it out too.Especially when you think my meta isnt as good as yours, from the way you woreded a response to me saying the T-70 is a very good small ship if not one of the best.

And I'm somewhat sorry if I upset you, though you seem to not listen when given suggestions, nor lsiten to others when they say the T-70 is fine as is.

And I'm really not quite sure why you think two perfectly capable T-70 pilots need a buff. If you are in such a competitive scene then dont fly them or try different things until one works on them...I did, and i even suggested how to rune each.

And almost every increase/buff requires points to be spent....as it should be. If you really need a 0point title to give an ept to those 2 T-70 pilots then you are needing more than that.

I'm in a competitive scene too, and I've made Red Ace work great! She does as well as my build for Poe, if not better at times. He PS is her only downfall the way I have her, and making her an 8 wont go far enough to fix it...again she is pretty fine as is. Blue Ace can work too. Again those 2 T-70 pilots (out of 4) dont need help, and the other 2 certainly dont. We agree on that, from what i can tell,

You misunderstand.

I'm sure you're a good player and have won games with red ace.

But List Juggler is a thing that exists.

Out of all the tournaments, store championships, and regionals reported, 0.7% of rebel points were spent on Red Ace, comparable to Warden Squadron Pilot and Leebo. (Poe is 6.9% of all rebel points, 10 times as used) Blue ace and Ello Atsy are below .04%, where the chart cant show everything. Of ships that made "the cut" (top 4/top 8, depending on tourney size), Ello, Red Ace, and blue ace are entirely absent (0.0%). (Red Veterans, on the other hand, clock in at 2.2% of ships by points that made the cut)

While buffing Poe is something that should be avoided if possible, adding an EPT to Red ace, blue ace, hobbie and Red Squadron T65 would improve these underperforming ships while not touching Poe or the sadly also lacking Ello Atsy.

That makes me sad to hear about Ello. He's a freaking hoot to fly.

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Hobbie? Who can't take an EPT? Or do you mean Porkins?

Porkins can take an EPT he just can't take R2-D6.

Hobbie can take an EPT if he takes R2-D6 for an additional point added on top of the EPT.

Yes but then he can't take TA so the combo is still illegal.

Thanks for not following the discussion.

The whole argument is abput a hypothetical xwing title that grants an ept if you do not have one already. Knavelead and marinealver want to add language to prevent the T70 xwing from taking it. They presen personal anecdotes to support their claim that blue and red ace (the only affected T70s) are already competitive, and insult my personal flying skill when I bring up tournament data that says that says their anecdotes are outliers.

Its just an EPT, guys. One that helps hobbie far more than red ace, by enabling the combo I posted. The ability to change ypur maneuver every turn and get double mods is worth more to hobbie than any single ept is worth to red ace.

I fly an X-Wing in HotAC campaign that can use SOT with Hobbie's ability and it wrecks stuff while flying circles around it. And that's before I even include Eaden Vrill's ability, which the X-Wing also happens to have. His wingmate (a Y-Wing pilot) uses R3A2 with reckless abandon and the two of them rack up the damage.

But again sop trying to think Red and Blue Ace are as bad as Hobbie or other pilots. At least they are on a good fighter overall.

they dont need to be. Stay on Target/targetting Astro/Hobbie is a very powerful combo- I challange you to present any builf for the T70 aces (even witj ept)t hat matches hobbie's superbuild.

Hobbie? Who can't take an EPT? Or do you mean Porkins?

Porkins can take an EPT he just can't take R2-D6.

Hobbie can take an EPT if he takes R2-D6 for an additional point added on top of the EPT.

Yes but then he can't take TA so the combo is still illegal.

Thanks for not following the discussion.

The whole argument is abput a hypothetical xwing title that grants an ept if you do not have one already. Knavelead and marinealver want to add language to prevent the T70 xwing from taking it. They presen personal anecdotes to support their claim that blue and red ace (the only affected T70s) are already competitive, and insult my personal flying skill when I bring up tournament data that says that says their anecdotes are outliers.

Its just an EPT, guys. One that helps hobbie far more than red ace, by enabling the combo I posted. The ability to change ypur maneuver every turn and get double mods is worth more to hobbie than any single ept is worth to red ace.

They were talking about R2-D6 to enable the combo so clearly you were the one not following the discussion.

FFG made the x-wing specifically so you couldn't field five at once. 5 x-wings would be really powerful...

Sorry to rain on your parade...

But if we are talking about an x-wing fix, we need a barrel roll...

Would 5 rookies really be that powerful in today's meta? I doubt it. Tournaments already see 4 rookies and a Bandit. What about a shield and red die would make that suddenly a game-breaker?

How about Chardan Refit on T-65? -2 or 3 points and T65 are more useful. And come on, how often do you use torpedo on X-Wing?

Lol, another fix the X-Wing thread!

Still it is pretty interesting to see a very new person on the Forum probably make his first thread about fixing the **** X-Wing. That probably means everyone, even the new players can see that the ship is bad and needs help...

...to be helped beyond any reasonable limit, making it a facerolling son of a Hutt...

If it is any less good than the Tie Advanced after buff, these threads will never stop. Besides they just buffed the **** out of defenders too, and the X-Wing should have been the first on the list by a long shot. But i am not making these threads anymore. By now FFG knows.

I hope they really buff it beyond reason, just to taste your salty tears XD

How about Chardan Refit on T-65? -2 or 3 points and T65 are more useful. And come on, how often do you use torpedo on X-Wing?

Lol, another fix the X-Wing thread!

Still it is pretty interesting to see a very new person on the Forum probably make his first thread about fixing the **** X-Wing. That probably means everyone, even the new players can see that the ship is bad and needs help...

...to be helped beyond any reasonable limit, making it a facerolling son of a Hutt...

If it is any less good than the Tie Advanced after buff, these threads will never stop. Besides they just buffed the **** out of defenders too, and the X-Wing should have been the first on the list by a long shot. But i am not making these threads anymore. By now FFG knows.

I hope they really buff it beyond reason, just to taste your salty tears XD

Well they had a better turn out at the most recent regional's top 16 then the Advanced, the Phantom and the U boats

"They presen personal anecdotes to support their claim that blue and red ace (the only affected T70s) are already competitive, and insult my personal flying skill when I bring up tournament data that says that says their anecdotes are outliers.

Its just an EPT, guys. One that helps hobbie far more than red ace, by enabling the combo I posted. The ability to change ypur maneuver every turn and get double mods is worth more to hobbie than any single ept is worth to red ace." - Rakaydos

I'm sorry I insulted your flying skill, but maybe you just arent good at building lists that dont need EPTs. Some people dont fly cerain pilots if they dont have them, I understand EPTs increase a pilots use. (Hell wont fly Kir Kanos due to it).

I will even agree wih you, it would have been nice if FFG would have designed Red and Blue aces with EPTs, I'd of loved that personally.

For a few weeks I was hesitant to fly either until I figured out what i could do/try with each, and those ideas worked. I also would love to see a way to do your combo and have Targeting Astro and an EPT on Hobbie, but I honestly dont think FFG will do that.

And I did make a combo that can beat Hobbie with that (illegal/propsed post-fix) set up you suggested and you havent either looked at it or ignored it, and instead just complained some more.

Anyway, i'm done arguing ith you, I've tried to suggest things,and you keep ignoring them, or just complaining about the T-70 pilots needing an EPT to be the best in the galaxy. someone already pointed ot their biggest failing, and it isnt that they are EPT less, it is that they are mid PS, and that usually is a killer.

Why remove the torpedo tube? Just give them a title that gives -2 points to astromechs.

Doesn't remove build options, works with IA, and frees up points.

We were talking about this very topic the other day at an LGS. The problem with X-Wings is that they have not evolved over the course of the game the way other ships have. A refit card that reduces their cost can help but then as someone on page 1 pointed out you run the risk of X-Wing swarms which could prove detrimental to the game.

Integrated Astromech was a great idea but someone neglected to realize that without a statement on the card allowing the ship to carry a second modification, all you really did was create a cheaper Shield Upgrade that required you to have an astromech droid and at the expense of every other modification - including Engine Upgrade, Stealth Device, etc.

To make X-Wings great again, you'd just about have to redesign them or create a card that forced them into a design specific concept, or recycle other ideas that have already been done - such as giving them a title card like the defender just got but without the point reduction.