I had not noticed this over the years until a player pointed it out to me. In the paragraph on secondary abilities specializations (p.46), there is a line saying that a specialization gives you bonus in the field you specialize in and a penalty in the fields you do not. It says this bonus and penalty is described in the ability description. Yet, the ability descriptions describe the bonus but not the penalty. Where can I find where the penalty is described?
Secondary abilities specializations
This took some digging a long time ago when I originally found it. I can't remember where I found it in English, but the Spanish Core Exxet is very clear about it.
Si lo hace, obtendrá un bono especial en ese campo en concreto, pero aplicará un negativo equivalente en el resto de controles de esa habilidad (CE pg 48)
Which, roughly translated is...
If he does, he obtains a special bonus in this particular field, but applies an equal penalty in all other uses of this ability.
So... it's a -40 to everything except your specialization, which is pretty steep. I've been looking for alternate methods of specialization for a while, because the current one is pretty darn crippling.
That was my instinct that was what was meant as well. And I agree, that is pretty steep. How about a house rule that it's a penalty equal to half the bonus for non specialties, so a -20 in this case? Seems pretty fair to me.
Possibly. As I said, I've been looking through a lot of options and toying with a few of my own. That's been one of them, though I'm still not fully sold. So long as it works for you though.
All penalties in the system are steep compared to the bonus.
The -40 seems fair, considering how extreme other penalties get.
All penalties in the system are steep compared to the bonus.
The -40 seems fair, considering how extreme other penalties get.
Yes and no.
You're right that a lot of direct penalties are steeper by comparison. For clarification, when I say direct I mean penalties that affect the exact same statistic/check as the bonus does and in the same way. Mental Patterns like Psychopath are a good example of a direct penalty on multiple levels. +30 Potential for Harming Powers, -80 for Sentience, -20 for non-harming. +40 Composure vs -100 to all Socials (talk about steep). Indirect would be the +10 Damage and +20 Projection, which have no equivalent penalties. They're assumed to be evened out by the other penalties.
So, let's take a look at direct penalties and bonuses then, neh?
Some advantages and disadvantages have the disadvantage roughly twice as crippling as the bonus (like Add 1 to a Characteristic vs Deduct 2 from a Characteristic), while others (by comparable CP) are incredibly ramped up (Triple Zeon Regen vs No Regen at All). Some work on their own sliding scale, as in the case of Quick Reflexes vs Slow Reactions, where the penalty starts off at -5 if you took both at 1 CP, but increased to -15 at 2 CP. So, there's a sliding scale to consider, and some of them even get worse over time (Exceptional Resistances vs Susceptibilities, for example). On average though, a disadvantage is always applying a larger penalty than its equivalent advantage, not always by much, but by some.
Mental Patterns are all over the place. Psychopath, as mentioned earlier, has the most direct comparisons, but I want to stop for a moment to talk about Madness, which is interesting because it's one case in the game when the direct penalty/bonus factor is actually skewed towards the positive. The table has 4 negative results, 1 neutral result, and 5 positive results which means that unless you count neutral as negative (which would be unfair to do mathematically) then you actually have greater odds of obtaining a positive boost than a negative one. The other patterns (and even Madness itself when looked at in a broader scope) all have a lot of variables to consider which make the comparison difficult, but I wanted to mention Madness for this reason.
In combat, Higher Ground gives a +20 to Attack, while being on the ground gives a -30 to Attack (along with a host of other disadvantages). Attacking beyond your effective range is an equal penalty to the bonus for firing at point blank range. Interestingly enough though, Combat is also where we find the largest discrepancies in slightly-indirect bonuses, because of certain situation like Acrobatics being opposed by Dodge, or Notice checks against certain types of attacks. I say slightly-indirect because it's Secondary DP vs Primary DP being spent, but it's still a DP vs DP spend. Some of these can offer huge bonuses or benefits without any penalty at all.
Which brings us to Secondary ability (henceforth known as 'skill') modifiers. There are a lot of other things one could talk about, but I think I've said enough to fill a book already. Skill modifiers are almost always roughly equal to each other. Hiding, for example, has well-lit areas at -20, and dimly-lit ones at +20. Disguise gives a -40 for not having materials, or a +40 for having them. Time is perhaps the only example of steeper penalties to bonuses, and then only if you're playing in a day-by-day campaign (so it's difficult to judge how direct of a penalty or boon it is).
It's this trend towards even-handed modifiers that makes the specialization penalty so out-of-place. A +40 situational bonus is great, but if in all other situations you're suffering -40 then that's a deep price to pay. Let's say we're looking at Animals, for example, and we decide to specialize in Dogs. That's +40 for Dogs, and -40 for Cats, Rats, Horses, Bears, Elephants, Dragons, Frogs, Lizards, Birds, Whales, Unicorns, and on, and on, and on. The penalty is so steep in this case that it's practically infinitely worse unless you encounter dogs and wolves roughly half the time, and all other creatures roughly half the time.
Most penalties and bonuses in Anima at least try to balance around an indirect scaling of 1:2 (with disadvantages having the advantage Get it?) but most specializations are crippling specializations. It's worse than taking Exclusive Weapon for a Fighter because at least the Fighter won't be expected to use other weapons most of the time, but secondaries are things that come up (or should come up) pretty often. Skills are how people Notice their surroundings, how they create Art and Music, how they know about History and Navigation; skills are how people live their lives. If being specialized in one area takes away roughly one level of difficulty for all checks beyond your specialization then, GM-willing, that's somewhere between a 1:1 ratio and a 1:1000 ratio.
In the end, it's not that -40/+40 is bad on paper, but, like Communism, working it out in the real world is a lot tougher than it seems. I've never taken a specialization yet because the least it could affect me would be with Creatives like Art, Dance, or Music (but definitely not Forging, that would be a mistake), where even the most creative of GMs would be hard-pressed to force someone into enough legitimate situations where their specialization wouldn't apply that it's almost ridiculous to consider.
At the same time though, this is all just one man's opinion of a situation. Obviously, every group should do what's right for that group. That being said, there have been a number of solutions presented that I've found, including the one that Dave and others have suggested, and here's a short list.
-Reduce penalty to -20 (can still get into the infinite loop of Animals, but is at least not costing 1 difficulty level constantly)
-No penalty, specializations are earned for every 20-50 points of a developed secondary and apply a smaller bonus (requires a new sub-system, would require
-Specialty matching (for every specialty, you choose a deficiency which gets the -40; useful, but easy to abuse. Possible solution was to pick two deficiencies per specialty).
-No penalty, but specialties cost DP (though how much is under serious debate).
-Specialty pools (essentially a bunch of spare points that would be used to buy specialties at custom levels. You can specialize a skill as much or as little as you want, but you take a scaling penalty)
-Remove specialties entirely (bad idea, but possibly good if nothing else works out)
There have been others which I've seen and dismissed already (and have therefore forgotten) but those are the options I'm looking at currently.
Hope this has been somewhat informative, and thanks for reading.
I have always ruled it as +40 and -40, and I have never let a player complain. Here is why:
When you go for a specialization, the mindset (as I have seen it) is that you are trying to get a free bonus that works with your character, and can hopefully avoid the penalty. It then become my job (in the way that I run my games) to make sure that you are, at some point, punished for that choice. This sounds harsh, but it really helps define a characters strengths and flaws. THIS SHOULD NOT BE ABUSED! No, you should not do it constantly. If the specialization makes sense, then let it work in its situations, but do not be afraid to ask for a roll simply because it doesn't fall under a characters specialization.
If I may weigh in, personally, I think the +/-40 is fair, at least for some skills. Especially science and history. When you think about it, most people are not that high a level. Take from Gaia beyond the dreams for example, the abilities of a level 2 University Graduate from Lucrecio, someone who has dedicated themselves to intellectual pursuits.
-No penalty, but specialties cost DP (though how much is under serious debate).
If I may weigh in, personally, I think the +/-40 is fair, at least for some skills. Especially science and history. When you think about it, most people are not that high a level. Take from Gaia beyond the dreams for example, the abilities of a level 2 University Graduate from Lucrecio, someone who has dedicated themselves to intellectual pursuits.
Edited by TyrHawk