I've been looking at what else I would like to add to my technician down the road and I really like the Armorer from force and destiny. I do not have nor will I have a force using character to do so. I know it will come down to a talk with my own GM but I was curious what you guys would do or have done. I am perfectly willing to miss out on all the 'force' talents as most of what I'm after can be gotten without them. The only bummer is I would miss out on a level of dedication.

What do you think, would you guys allow this? I only have Edge of the Empire so is it already covered in Force and Destiny? If this has already come up in your game what did you rule?

Thanks!

Gadgeteer is a much better choice, but I would let you, nothing in the rules says you can't buy a FaD specialisation without a Force Rating.

You can buy them. You don't get a FR with the purchase but can work towards it.

Per RAW, any PC can buy any specialization, so your EotE character could buy a FaD spec.

However, as 2P51 noted buying the spec doesn't get you a Force Rating, and if you don't have a Force Rating, then any Force talents in the spec are useless to your PC, but you still have to purchase them if they're the only way to proceed deeper into the spec.

If you're willing to pay that cost and having talents that you'll never be able to use, then nothing's stopping you from buying Armorer.

I hadn't actually considered being able to buy but not use the force talents. I could still get to that dedication it'd just take some wasted points to get there. Thanks all for the input!

I would definitely allow it! I would even encourage the player to make it an in-game thing, with the character discovering ancient techniques and ways of the mystic armorer of old and getting heavily into reading and researching the old texts. Kind of reminds me of old character templates from the WEG games, with a few interesting characters who weren't force sensitive, but either claimed to be or were just fascinated/obsessed or learned in the lore and legends of the Force.

In our last game we had a Marauder who wanted to be Master of All Weapons and picked up a Saber Tree despite not having any inclination towards the Force. The game wrapped up right after she got it, so we don't know how it would have played out, but yeah - see no reason why you couldn't pick up a tree without the Force.

There are even some FnD Specializations that don't require the purchase of any Force Talents to gain all the non-Force Talent goodies, like Peacekeeper and Protector .

The only real benefit of grabbing Armorer over Gadgeteer is 2 ranks of Inventor, Gearhead and the Supreme Armor Master talent (which IS pretty slick). If it were me, I'd go Gadgeteer, but there is certainly a benefit to it!

You know, looking over the tree - it's not that much of a XP waste. The only thing that you cant avoid buying is Mental Tools, and that's only 15 points. Otherwise, everything that's force powered is off to the side or at the bottom of the tree.

That said, I think that unless you really, really need Supreme Armor Master (and believe me, I'm very tempted with my Engineer), going with an Outlaw Tech or Mechanic would be the way to go. Even if you don't have to buy it, there's still seven slots on the tree that you can't use.

I suppose in the end I"m just being a bit greedy but after looking at how high some of the modding difficulty gets and reading over the crafting rules I would really like those two extra blue dice from inventor. The armor master is kind of a bonus. I am already an outlaw tech/mechanic so this is for down the road as it will run me, 40 xp I think?, to even get the talent list and there is plenty to do before then.

There are several of the FaD trees that are still strong in the hands of non-Force-sensitive characters. As an example, Shii-Cho Knight is one that takes a Marauder up another notch.

If your mostly looking for Inventor the Scientist from Age of Rebellion is a much better choice, it has 2, along with a bunch of useful talents on the right hand side. And if you already have Utility Belt from Outlaw Tech then you don't have to buy it again so can skip it when your heading for the dedication.

But the obvious armour benefits and cheaper cost of talents is a bonus with Armourer. If it's in line with your concept then go for it.

Depends what tree really, but threes actually at least two trees, Murasauk and Shi-Knight that play very strongly into the lightsaber duelist without the force. In the latter tree, multiple oppo, improved parry, 2 ranks of second wind, quick draw, natural blade master and 4 ranks of parry are up for grabs. The other has a stack of cool traits and plenty of parry, with most of the other trees being rather unsuitable by large, or largely dominated by force talents.

One thing I have noticed that obtaining parry really changes things, if the campiagn doesn't involve force and Destiny or lightsabers it shouldn't matter, but a Marauder with parry becomes nay on untouchable against most brawl/melee creatures even assuming a modest soak of about 7/8. As a 5 soak Gadgeteer turned emergent turned Atari, I was able to parry off 8-12 melee damage quite effectively in bursts, and hit them back if they rolled three threat/despair in doing so. Was a bit lucky to only take one hit, but considering I turned 12 to 3 damage with 4 ranks of parry, it can change things. Likewise combat characters with a focus on melee will really struggle to take lightsaber hits without a parry of their own. That being said, really raises the antie in some ways.

Non-LS trees? Artisan is a pretty ok tree for generic crafters, though you can't get the best without with the force so it's really better to hit any of the other trees. Hunter is a really good alternative to Assassin due to a good damage perk and nice sidestep while presenting expansion rp wise (Fairly diverse skill set.) Advisor is alright, though again the other talking classes have better focus. Commander and Protector are merely all right, though the latter offers a easy chance at obtaining a parry.

Broadly speaking though, your often better off taking a tree from another set of rules then a force and destiny tree if force useage isn't going to be a thing; there's plenty of trees out there that offer a really fine niche for a well rounded character. The primary exclusion being Shi-Knight, as it works pretty well with any character with a melee/brawl grounding.

Of course, your typical Marauder can afford taking Wounds over Strain, so it's not as bad as it first appears.

My Brother used his medic tree to get lightsaber career skill. Well Rounded does the trick

Of course, your typical Marauder can afford taking Wounds over Strain, so it's not as bad as it first appears.

And if they are inflicting strain, then if it's a stun melee weapon one can parry that too to lower the overall amount of strain lost.

Have not looked much into FoD, but is the whole point of having no force rating requirements for those specs that you can talk them as a non-force user and gain your force rating one at the end of the three, becoming force-sensitive effectively by picking this path.

The Star Fighter Ace for example sounds like the natural specialization to pick for an Ace to become a force user. You get access to a bunch quite useful talents, pay 40 xp into inactive talents and once you gain your force rating those inactive xp pay off and you are ready to either further explore this talent tree or dip your toes into a more heavily force specialization or even force powers.

As mentioned, no FoD for me, not that interested in the force either, so feel to correct me if I got something wrong here.

Have not looked much into FoD, but is the whole point of having no force rating requirements for those specs that you can talk them as a non-force user and gain your force rating one at the end of the three, becoming force-sensitive effectively by picking this path.

The Star Fighter Ace for example sounds like the natural specialization to pick for an Ace to become a force user. You get access to a bunch quite useful talents, pay 40 xp into inactive talents and once you gain your force rating those inactive xp pay off and you are ready to either further explore this talent tree or dip your toes into a more heavily force specialization or even force powers.

As mentioned, no FoD for me, not that interested in the force either, so feel to correct me if I got something wrong here.

Only Force users can gain the benefits of Force talents (talents with the little burst symbol on them). The Force Rating talent is a Force talent, so a non-Force Sensitive cannot gain the benefit of that talent.

Everything else is subject to GM/Player negotiation.

Have not looked much into FoD, but is the whole point of having no force rating requirements for those specs that you can talk them as a non-force user and gain your force rating one at the end of the three, becoming force-sensitive effectively by picking this path.

The Star Fighter Ace for example sounds like the natural specialization to pick for an Ace to become a force user. You get access to a bunch quite useful talents, pay 40 xp into inactive talents and once you gain your force rating those inactive xp pay off and you are ready to either further explore this talent tree or dip your toes into a more heavily force specialization or even force powers.

As mentioned, no FoD for me, not that interested in the force either, so feel to correct me if I got something wrong here.

Only Force users can gain the benefits of Force talents (talents with the little burst symbol on them). The Force Rating talent is a Force talent, so a non-Force Sensitive cannot gain the benefit of that talent.

Everything else is subject to GM/Player negotiation.

Good point, I did overlook that.

So you would have to take "FORCE-SENSITIVE EMERGENT" or Exile for 10 x number of specs xp, which means 10 extra xp he he did pick up something like "Star Fighter Ace" first, but potential still cheaper than the force rating from the bottom of a three when picked first, more expensive when you pick up first the beneficial spec and later get the required force rating, though you can go than quickly to ranking two as well.

Good point, I did overlook that.

So you would have to take "FORCE-SENSITIVE EMERGENT" or Exile for 10 x number of specs xp, which means 10 extra xp he he did pick up something like "Star Fighter Ace" first, but potential still cheaper than the force rating from the bottom of a three when picked first, more expensive when you pick up first the beneficial spec and later get the required force rating, though you can go than quickly to ranking two as well.

That seems like they intent. It's not too absurd to handwave Force Rating requirement should they reach the FR talent in the Starfighter Ace tree. But that's between the GM and their players.