"Tie Scout... Which one is that again? Two bubbles, three wings? Can't Remember"

*Quick Google Image Search*

"Oh Gawd No! Nope, No Way. What the ever loving Hades! No!"

Its a bit clunky but thats what you expect from a recon ship. Its still miles better then the non TIE suggestions for Empire.

Says you.

"Tie Scout... Which one is that again? Two bubbles, three wings? Can't Remember"

*Quick Google Image Search*

"Oh Gawd No! Nope, No Way. What the ever loving Hades! No!"

Its a bit clunky but thats what you expect from a recon ship. Its still miles better then the non TIE suggestions for Empire.

Says you.

Plus unlike the Gunboat it would bring new and interesting mechanics to the game.

I'm holding out for the Wayfarer Transport. I think I have a very long wait.

The Tie Scout looks like something Mark Watney would build, use, and constantly complain about how ugly it is.

Edit:

Skipray BlastboatI-7 HowlrunnerV-wing (from Rogue squadron game and Dark Empire comic)Slave 2TIE ScoutTIE AvengerT-wingAssault GunboatMissile BoatSun CrusherLady LuckStinger (Xizors's main ship)

Skipray hopefullyHowlrunner is a super forgettable ship, unlikelyV-wing isn't even a ship so noSlave 2 is a possibility and one I wouldn't mind seeing, but I doubt it will happenTIE Scout is forgettableTIE Avenger we already have (called the TIE Advanced)T-wing unlikelyAssault Gunboat I hope to God noMissile Boat even more soSun Crusher LOL. no words, just lol.Lady Luck is a possibilityStinger I had to look up pictures, but it looks pretty obscure so probably not

The Scout could be interesting as an Imperial equivalent to the HWK, Empire is pretty light on support ships compared to Rebels and Scum, but the shuttle title for bombers does cut in to their potential role a good bit. The Avenger and the Advanced are interesting because they do technically share a name and are part of the same line... But it's like with cars, the Advanced is like the 69 Mustang while the Avenger is the 04 model. But the most obvious top tier pilot for the Avenger is already in use for the Advanced and is getting another release for the Defender soon so that is a point against it.

Imperials have the Lambda Shuttle and the TIE Bomber/Shuttle.

About the Avenger, you need just 2 named pilots...

Interesting take but I'd go with boost over evade to better separate it from the Advanced and the Defender. Also PS6 is not a top tier pilot, particularly for a dodgy ship.

Agree, boost would make the Avenger different. About the PS, FFG made Dengar a PS9 (a guy who was never know by his piloting skill): they can make any other real ace a PS8.

The Avenger is for sure a candidate for boost, talon role, segnor's loop and something similar to the TIE/x7 Title. Though I think 2 Hull 2 Shields works fine. Oh and btw, EU Dengar is a better pilot than Han Solo even before his cybernetic enhancements. So PS 9 works within the lore as well.

Here my take on it based on one of the best multiplayer space sim pilots: TIE Avenger - Crying Devil

Aesthetics were thrown right out of the window with the release did the punisher.

Aesthetic consistency. The TIE punisher looks like a TIE bomber.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ugly

And these look like everything released.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

And the 140 or so people currently tracking the Gunboat thread say that even by your own definition, it's still not "polarising" - you're just an overly vocal minority.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

And the 140 or so people currently tracking the Gunboat thread say that even by your own definition, it's still not "polarising" - you're just an overly vocal minority.

I track the Gunboat thread sometimes, yet you know my stance on it. It doesn't prove anything. It's highly possible that you are an "overly vocal minority" (and either y'all are overly vocal)

Let's all email ffg daily with:

Gunboat?

They'll get so sick of it they'll release it in its own wave to make us stop.

I'm no mathematician but, ~140 sure does exceed a dozen or so people.

There are just as many people who hate it as love it.

Source for that? Can you provide numbers to back up that claim? How many people have you canvassed? Sample size? Because "you" certainly does not not equal "as many people as love it".

For example, I personally do not have any interest in the Ghost. I've never watched Rebels, I think it's an ugly ship and I think the Phantom's sticky-out nose guns look like Q-Tips.

That doesn't make the Ghost "polarizing", however; it just means that I personally don't particularly like it.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

3 likes on are hardly polarizing, that just 4 people and most likely at least one of them just likes the Punisher. I nearly gave you a like for that as well, even when I would love to see the gun boat in the game AFTER the Avenger

"Tie Scout... Which one is that again? Two bubbles, three wings? Can't Remember"

*Quick Google Image Search*

"Oh Gawd No! Nope, No Way. What the ever loving Hades! No!"

Its a bit clunky but thats what you expect from a recon ship. Its still miles better then the non TIE suggestions for Empire.

Says you.

Plus unlike the Gunboat it would bring new and interesting mechanics to the game.

You know, that tractor beam firing Gunboat which can fire it's tractor beam to increase accuracy with its Ion and laser cannons sounds like it would be a really nice mechanic to introduce to X-Wing. Hey wait., they actually are already planning to add that very same mechanic as the TIE-Defender mechanic. :-)

Besides that, the Gunboat would be a chance to specifically design the gunboat and avengers around the option of using mini-swarms of generics together to cover each others weaknesses and offer imperial players a new type of list. A gunboat pilot with an auto-hit for his TB for example would be an amazing addition to the imperial arsenal, similar to how Blunt auto-hits. There is plenty of things the gunboat could add to the game.

What it for sure does not need to be is superior missile platform than TIE Bombers, while having a hyperspace cable alternative to the TIE-Bomber makes sense for the imperial navy, we do not need such a platform for the game as we do not deal with hyperspace in X-Wing. Though Hyperspace rules for deployment would be for sure cool if we play more games on 3x6 format. 100 or 150 points and 3x6 sounds like a fun alternative scenario, though no idea if hyperspace deployment would favor rebels to much.

There are just as many people who hate it as love it.

Source for that? Can you provide numbers to back up that claim? How many people have you canvassed? Sample size? Because "you" certainly does not not equal "as many people as love it".

For example, I personally do not have any interest in the Ghost. I've never watched Rebels, I think it's an ugly ship and I think the Phantom's sticky-out nose guns look like Q-Tips.

That doesn't make the Ghost "polarizing", however; it just means that I personally don't particularly like it.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

3 likes on are hardly polarizing, that just 4 people and most likely at least one of them just likes the Punisher. I nearly gave you a like for that as well, even when I would love to see the gun boat in the game AFTER the Avenger

I don't want to argue about it, I just don't see the point of the ship and doubt FFG will break away from the TIE aesthetic for a relatively obscure ship. The value of that consistency means that even lesser known or unknown ships are still instantly recognizable as Imperial, this is important not just from a thematic standpoint but from a marketing one as well. Take the Punisher, it appeared in one not well known game and in a source book yet if I went out and got some random guy off the street odds are he'd instantly be able to tell that it was a Star Wars ship and belonged to the Empire even with no context. You don't waste that kind of brand recognition.

....the irony here is that I deliberately used the word polarizing because I knew a lot of people had strong feelings about the ship and wanted to be diplomatic and avoid an argument. And yet here we are passionately arguing about whether or not people have strong enough differing opinions on the ship to argue about it.

There are just as many people who hate it as love it.

Source for that? Can you provide numbers to back up that claim? How many people have you canvassed? Sample size? Because "you" certainly does not not equal "as many people as love it".

For example, I personally do not have any interest in the Ghost. I've never watched Rebels, I think it's an ugly ship and I think the Phantom's sticky-out nose guns look like Q-Tips.

That doesn't make the Ghost "polarizing", however; it just means that I personally don't particularly like it.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

3 likes on are hardly polarizing, that just 4 people and most likely at least one of them just likes the Punisher. I nearly gave you a like for that as well, even when I would love to see the gun boat in the game AFTER the Avenger

I don't want to argue about it, I just don't see the point of the ship and doubt FFG will break away from the TIE aesthetic for a relatively obscure ship. The value of that consistency means that even lesser known or unknown ships are still instantly recognizable as Imperial, this is important not just from a thematic standpoint but from a marketing one as well. Take the Punisher, it appeared in one not well known game and in a source book yet if I went out and got some random guy off the street odds are he'd instantly be able to tell that it was a Star Wars ship and belonged to the Empire even with no context. You don't waste that kind of brand recognition.

And if you ask your friendly local game store if he would like to order some more Punisher you will get a very clear answer as well. ;-)

You have plenty of ships appealing to people outside of the fandom already. If those iconic ships did not get them already then another something odd, freak TIE-Fighter will not get them either. So I would say that argument is working against you.

At the other hand the Gunboat and Avenger are a really good opportunity to bring beloved ships to the empire which bring unique ability and can be used in a different way from already established typical imperial list. And give me the chance to bring 2 of each to competitive list and I am sold already. The best space sims of all time has quite a lot fans out there, and with a lot I mean 7 digit. ;-)

There are just as many people who hate it as love it.

Source for that? Can you provide numbers to back up that claim? How many people have you canvassed? Sample size? Because "you" certainly does not not equal "as many people as love it".

For example, I personally do not have any interest in the Ghost. I've never watched Rebels, I think it's an ugly ship and I think the Phantom's sticky-out nose guns look like Q-Tips.

That doesn't make the Ghost "polarizing", however; it just means that I personally don't particularly like it.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

3 likes on are hardly polarizing, that just 4 people and most likely at least one of them just likes the Punisher. I nearly gave you a like for that as well, even when I would love to see the gun boat in the game AFTER the Avenger

I don't want to argue about it, I just don't see the point of the ship and doubt FFG will break away from the TIE aesthetic for a relatively obscure ship. The value of that consistency means that even lesser known or unknown ships are still instantly recognizable as Imperial, this is important not just from a thematic standpoint but from a marketing one as well. Take the Punisher, it appeared in one not well known game and in a source book yet if I went out and got some random guy off the street odds are he'd instantly be able to tell that it was a Star Wars ship and belonged to the Empire even with no context. You don't waste that kind of brand recognition.

And if you ask your friendly local game store if he would like to order some more Punisher you will get a very clear answer as well. ;-)

You have plenty of ships appealing to people outside of the fandom already. If those iconic ships did not get them already then another some odd, freak TIE-Fighter will not get them either. So I would say that argument is working against you.

At the other hand the Gunboat and Avenger are a really good opportunity to bring beloved ships to the empire which bring unique ability and can be used in a different way from already established typical imperial list. And give me the chance to bring 2 of each to competitive list and I am sold already. The best space sims of all time has quite a lot fans out there, and with a lot I mean 7 digit. ;-)

And that's fine but I still feel like it is a significant break from the Imperial aesthetic and I have since I had to fly one in the TIE series.

There are just as many people who hate it as love it.

Source for that? Can you provide numbers to back up that claim? How many people have you canvassed? Sample size? Because "you" certainly does not not equal "as many people as love it".

For example, I personally do not have any interest in the Ghost. I've never watched Rebels, I think it's an ugly ship and I think the Phantom's sticky-out nose guns look like Q-Tips.

That doesn't make the Ghost "polarizing", however; it just means that I personally don't particularly like it.

The post that ninjaed you and the likes on my posts indicate that I am hardly alone in this viewpoint.

3 likes on are hardly polarizing, that just 4 people and most likely at least one of them just likes the Punisher. I nearly gave you a like for that as well, even when I would love to see the gun boat in the game AFTER the Avenger

I don't want to argue about it, I just don't see the point of the ship and doubt FFG will break away from the TIE aesthetic for a relatively obscure ship. The value of that consistency means that even lesser known or unknown ships are still instantly recognizable as Imperial, this is important not just from a thematic standpoint but from a marketing one as well. Take the Punisher, it appeared in one not well known game and in a source book yet if I went out and got some random guy off the street odds are he'd instantly be able to tell that it was a Star Wars ship and belonged to the Empire even with no context. You don't waste that kind of brand recognition.

And if you ask your friendly local game store if he would like to order some more Punisher you will get a very clear answer as well. ;-)

You have plenty of ships appealing to people outside of the fandom already. If those iconic ships did not get them already then another some odd, freak TIE-Fighter will not get them either. So I would say that argument is working against you.

At the other hand the Gunboat and Avenger are a really good opportunity to bring beloved ships to the empire which bring unique ability and can be used in a different way from already established typical imperial list. And give me the chance to bring 2 of each to competitive list and I am sold already. The best space sims of all time has quite a lot fans out there, and with a lot I mean 7 digit. ;-)

And that's fine but I still feel like it is a significant break from the Imperial aesthetic and I have since I had to fly one in the TIE series.

It is basically a single-seat multi-purpose fighter in the iconic lambda-design. It fits very well to the design of Cygnus Spacework who brought us the Lambda and Sentinel Shuttle. You instantly recognize the design, just like you recognize Sienar fighters and Kuat fighters. Ironically they even re-labeled the A-Wing from Incom to now Kuat because Kuat designed ships have their V-Shape. So I really don't see a break of "iconic" shapes here, this break would only exists if you expect the empire only to use one manufacture for all their fighters.

On the basis that we have the Lambda, Decimator and Firespray in the Imperial faction already, arguments that the Assault Gunboat shouldn't be included because "it isn't a TIE" are pretty impotent.

It's an iconic ship for a generation of Star Wars fans who grew up playing the X-Wing/TIE Fighter series of games. Those fans are exactly the sort of people that X-Wing: The Miniatures Game appeals to, so I see no good reason not to release the ships that they know and love.

Why wouldn't ffg and Disney want to sell hundreds of thousands worth of gunboats? They are a business and they know it's a ship that will sell unlike the punisher which no one asked for and certainly didn't buy multiples of.

... but I bought three.

At any rate, can we not all agree that there are ships we want in the game?

There really isn't any need to get snotty and be like "oh, at least it brings something unlike the x" That's just being pathetic.

Some of us old guard, and given that we are referencing games and books over 20 years old are old guard, want things like the Blastboat, DX9, Gunboat, R-41 etc. This is because we fought against them and flew them before many on these boards were born.

At this point I know I've said all of this before, and thoroughly agree with Mcfoy's Architect reference.

There have been more controversial ships added to the game than the Gunboat or R-41. TIE Punisher and K-wing spring immediately to mind.

The only ship I really wouldn't want in that has been mentioned is the Sun Crusher. Because how would that even work?

Why wouldn't ffg and Disney want to sell hundreds of thousands worth of gunboats? They are a business and they know it's a ship that will sell unlike the punisher which no one asked for and certainly didn't buy multiples of.

They made the Punisher especially for me.

Why wouldn't ffg and Disney want to sell hundreds of thousands worth of gunboats? They are a business and they know it's a ship that will sell unlike the punisher which no one asked for and certainly didn't buy multiples of.

They made the Punisher especially for me.

Phrasing.

Why wouldn't ffg and Disney want to sell hundreds of thousands worth of gunboats? They are a business and they know it's a ship that will sell unlike the punisher which no one asked for and certainly didn't buy multiples of.

Sorry, but I wanted the Punisher. I played Battlegrounds quite a bit back in the day (in fact, that's how I got my love of the TIE Defender). I hadn't touched any game in the X-wing series until recently.

TIE Phantom, Rebel Assault 2, no other appearances until XWMinis

TIE Punisher, (game title here), appears as final bomber upgrade, no other appearances until XWMinis

Assault Gunboat, appears in the original X-wing PC game and it's 3 sequels, has been the focus of consistent fan support for over 20 years. Mentioned in a few reference works. Has recently appeared in an RPG resource book. Still not even rumored to be possible in XWMinis.

TIE Avenger, appears in TIE Fighter as the production model of Darth Vader's iconic custom X-1 TIE Advanced. Also appears or is mentioned in other games in the series. Appeared in SWCCG. Advanced and TAP in XWMinis likely increases its future inclusion.

TIE Defender, appears in TIE Fighter and is so bad ass it is only mentioned in the follow up games. Appears in SWCCG and several reference works, as well as being immortalized in Action Fleet plastic 20 years ago and the recent Lego set. Also appears in a recent cell phone game. Of the 'obscure' non-movie TIEs this one was more likely to be known by even casual fans. It's inclusion in XWMinis has never been contested other than its less than perfect effeciency/cost, soon to be 'fixed' with the Veterans expansion.

So, we see that the Gunboat and Avenger should objectively be included in the game over the Punisher and Phantom. Justice has not been served.