Ya if it's official ffg, then you should be allowed.

If a TO tried to ban them, then I'd report that to ffg

Sure you can put them with your cards but you can't deploy them legally in game. They are not usable regardless of where they came from.

The template doesn't fit between the nubs.

Yes we heard they doesnt fit first three times. Not saying its ok or anything, if they does not fit its really shty quality then, but if you would step into my table and insist i cannot field they cause they does not fit, instead of moving them this 1,5mm ahead....well lets say i would argue in rather fierce manner.

So take a file and file the nubs down a hair on both sides

The template will fit then

It's plastic, not to hard to tweak to fit properly

Unless ffg makes an official statement if I can make it fit in the template, Where does it say I cannot use it?

So you're saying it should be okay to field physically modified templates?

Lol how they are modified if its FFG who manufactured them? Yes. If that is FFG product and unless they say "folks sorry they are faulty dont use them", even if they are 100% bigger there is nothing that could prevent you from using them.

They aren't even the same size.

Ya if it's official ffg, then you should be allowed.

If a TO tried to ban them, then I'd report that to ffg

Sure you can put them with your cards but you can't deploy them legally in game. They are not usable regardless of where they came from.

The template doesn't fit between the nubs.

Yes we heard they doesnt fit first three times. Not saying its ok or anything, if they does not fit its really shty quality then, but if you would step into my table and insist i cannot field they cause they does not fit, instead of moving them this 1,5mm ahead....well lets say i would argue in rather fierce manner.

So take a file and file the nubs down a hair on both sides

The template will fit then

It's plastic, not to hard to tweak to fit properly

Unless ffg makes an official statement if I can make it fit in the template, Where does it say I cannot use it?

So you're saying it should be okay to field physically modified templates?

Lol how they are modified if its FFG who manufactured them? Yes. If that is FFG product and unless they say "folks sorry they are faulty dont use them", even if they are 100% bigger there is nothing that could prevent you from using them.

They aren't even the same size.

Ya if it's official ffg, then you should be allowed.

If a TO tried to ban them, then I'd report that to ffg

Sure you can put them with your cards but you can't deploy them legally in game. They are not usable regardless of where they came from.

The template doesn't fit between the nubs.

Yes we heard they doesnt fit first three times. Not saying its ok or anything, if they does not fit its really shty quality then, but if you would step into my table and insist i cannot field they cause they does not fit, instead of moving them this 1,5mm ahead....well lets say i would argue in rather fierce manner.

They aren't even the same size.

Size is different matter, i was talking about fitting into template.

Also i dont want to insist they are ok, cause they are not.

But like it or not they are "official X-wing product", we all see it a faulty one, but hey, gimme rule lawyering that forbids using them?

I would like to additionally clarify I don't wish to antagonize anyone (krynn007), I just do not believe these tokens are legal under any circumstances as nicely laid out above.

I understand the argument, and I see your point, but I don't think it would be right to not allow someone to use something that ffg has so far officially released.

What if that was the only one they had, and they couldn't get their hands on one to replace?

Is that their fault?

I know it's a far fetch scenario, but even so, would it be that players fault to assume it was legal?

I don't think so

Ffg really fudged this one up imo

Then they'd have to buy a legal one just like every other card, ship, and template in their list. This is one of the dumbest arguments I've seen on these here forums, and that's saying quite a lot. Its a misprint. It cannot be legally deployed.

/thread

Show me in the rules where it states ffg official products cannot be used?

Where does it say that?

That's ffg fault, not the player

Again I don't see how it would hurt to file the edges down

Ffg rules do state Component can be modified.

So if someone modifies it to fit I don't see how that is illegal

Ffg is 100% at fault

So they have to either send out replacement, or tell people they are illegal or legal.

What else can they do?

For some reason (especially with the way they're handling things lately) I think they'll allow these.

I don't know what would look worse

Release something then officially decline it, or allow it

They messed up big time

Edit

So I guess if you play against an opponent that has templates with edges rounded that there is a lot of wiggle room, then they are not allowed to use those templates?

Afterall it's not 100% correct.

Maybe they can alter their firing arc

Also to force a played to fork over more money to buy something that they currently have

That's a pretty piss poor way to treat a customer/player

I know I'd tell Ya where to go pretty quick

But that's me

I don't take people bs

But for the sake if argument what if there are none for sale?

That player will be turned away?

Great way to help the community grow

The person did nothing wrong

I know. I know. A lot of people hate me, but... If someone wants to play the acrylic template and it's off by a wee bit. I don't care. I'm more worried about running into a rock then the size or placement of the template. Bumping ships??? Not putting them EXACTLY where they where? Oh well. Itshay happens. Fly casual.

Obviously they're just decorative. Drill holes in them and make a necklace.

If I had a ship base with messed up nubs that blocked the back and front template would anyone reasonably let me use it anyways and just pinky-swear that I got it as close as I could?

No.

Why is this any different?

If I had a ship base with messed up nubs that blocked the back and front template would anyone reasonably let me use it anyways and just pinky-swear that I got it as close as I could?

No.

Why is this any different?

IMHO, it seems that by their very nature, they clearly cannot be used in a way that doesn't give them an unfair advantage (slight, but still an advantage) over original cluster mines, as printed.

I can't think of a single argument in favor of using a promotional product which yields an unfair advantage, or which at LEAST provides unclear results which may potentially compromise the integrity of the game state. Mainly what I'm hearing is "FFG gave these to me, and they're shiny, and I want to use them!". That's fair, kinda. I also like using FFG shiny promos, just not at the expense of potentially gaining an unfair advantage.

If I had a ship base with messed up nubs that blocked the back and front template would anyone reasonably let me use it anyways and just pinky-swear that I got it as close as I could?

No.

Why is this any different?

IMHO, it seems that by their very nature, they clearly cannot be used in a way that doesn't give them an unfair advantage (slight, but still an advantage) over original cluster mines, as printed.

I can't think of a single argument in favor of using a promotional product which yields an unfair advantage, or which at LEAST provides unclear results which may potentially compromise the integrity of the game state. Mainly what I'm hearing is "FFG gave these to me, and they're shiny, and I want to use them!". That's fair, kinda. I also like using FFG shiny promos, just not at the expense of potentially gaining an unfair advantage.

They are the ones who issued this, and they need to either say it's legal, illegal and replace or not.

However I can't see them replacing them.

Maybe they will, but what a pain for the player

It's a pretty big embarrassment imo

If they made them illegal that would be really embarrassing.

If they replaced them kudos

If they made them legal, then people would have to suck it up

Has anyone sent in a request from ffg asking what to do with them?

While I do agree with you, o still don't think it would be fair to a player who has won these and tell them they are illegal without a proper ruling from ffg

As it is officially a ffg product and it's not as though the player has altered this themselves

Again ffg screwed up huge with this and need to take action asap imo.

If I had a ship base with messed up nubs that blocked the back and front template would anyone reasonably let me use it anyways and just pinky-swear that I got it as close as I could?

No.

Why is this any different?

IMHO, it seems that by their very nature, they clearly cannot be used in a way that doesn't give them an unfair advantage (slight, but still an advantage) over original cluster mines, as printed.

I can't think of a single argument in favor of using a promotional product which yields an unfair advantage, or which at LEAST provides unclear results which may potentially compromise the integrity of the game state. Mainly what I'm hearing is "FFG gave these to me, and they're shiny, and I want to use them!". That's fair, kinda. I also like using FFG shiny promos, just not at the expense of potentially gaining an unfair advantage.

You know, your right, but it's on ffg head, not the player

They are the ones who issued this, and they need to either say it's legal, illegal and replace or not.

However I can't see them replacing them.

Maybe they will, but what a pain for the player

It's a pretty big embarrassment imo

If they made them illegal that would be really embarrassing.

If they replaced them kudos

If they made them legal, then people would have to suck it up

Has anyone sent in a request from ffg asking what to do with them?

Lots of folks have sent emails to FFG about this. All are waiting for a reply.

I can't seem to find anything about this in the forum, although I am still a bit new. Some of us have been "fortunate" enough to win acrylic cluster mines from Regionals. As most know, they are larger than the official carboard ones, and the guide does not fit a template. I emailed FFG about replacements and have got no response. Can I use these in a tournament this weekend? Could be fun.

Sorry. Just figured out how to add in the pictures.

Just to clarify. I've emailed them twice about it and have got no response.

So yesterday, after getting home, I decided to start reorganizing a bunch of my things in my Plano trays. When I got to the new set of Cluster Mines I earned on Saturday in Atlanta, I decided to check them to see if they would fit into the templates, which they did not.

My curiosity got to me at that point as I had known from these boards and an e-mail conversation, that the templates are larger than the cardboard versions. Since I don't own a set of cardboard templates because I don't have a K-wing or Punisher, I have nothing to compare that against.

I do however own one each of the Proton Bomb, Seismic Charge, and Proximity Mine Acrylic tokens as well as the cardboard versions and since I was bored, I compared their sizes too.

It turns out that the Proton Bomb is Smaller than it should be by a fraction, The Seismic Charge is too large, and the Proximity Mine also is a hair-breadth bigger than it should be.

These are not the only Acrylic templates that are mis-sized. My 2016 Store Champs Range Rulers do not match the cardboard version that I chose to compare it against, although, because the cardboard rulers also vary where the range line is printed any number of match possibilities can exist.

It's not a huge deal, just another thing that folks get worried about.

Now my new Regionals Dice rolling only blanks, THAT is a problem the community should be up in arms about!

Hopefully FFG will buff bombs in more subtle ways, but it does work, so why not!

(snip)

Never mind. Stepping away from the thread.

(snip)

Never mind. Stepping away from the thread.

Seems like a smart call.

I can't seem to find anything about this in the forum, although I am still a bit new. Some of us have been "fortunate" enough to win acrylic cluster mines from Regionals. As most know, they are larger than the official carboard ones, and the guide does not fit a template. I emailed FFG about replacements and have got no response. Can I use these in a tournament this weekend? Could be fun.

Sorry. Just figured out how to add in the pictures.

Just to clarify. I've emailed them twice about it and have got no response.

Let's hope next week

I seriously doubt they will let these be used, despite being official. Huge mistake by OP to not verify they matched...

I would err on the side of caution and not allow them until we get an official response. I don;t know how they would allow these to be used though. They may have to simply re-issue the prizes in the correct proportions.

Funny thing is that I believe the Acrylic Prox/Protons/Seismics are all the correct size. Not sure what happened here.

Having run a number of tournaments, I would have to tell a player using them that they need to produce the original cardboard templates. While I understand they finished high in a Region and respect them for accomplishing that, I wouldn't feel right allowing them to use them due to the fact that the template will not fit as well as the fact that they are larger than the original cluster mine tokens.

I find it funny that FFG hasn't said anything about this and no one is getting a reply yet.

It's clear that the templates are a different size versus the cardboard and were made improperly. They should be replaced by FFG.

I wonder what they will be saying and doing at other upcoming regionals.

From a standpoint of legal technicality - the wording of the bomb reference card says only to slide the token guides into the end of the template.

Even though the picture on the card normally shows the template fully seated on the template, the wording does not say it has to be. If you have pushed the token on the template as far as it will go, you are technically meeting the requirement as written.

I could see a TO ruling them OK to use, because the template technically will allow the template to go in between the guides - but just not seat as you normally expect.

I can also see a TO ruling them out for the same reason.

Best bet would bring your cardboard versions as a backup if you want to try to use the acrylic.

AND - there's no reason why you shouldn't have the cardboard versions if you have the upgrade card that they normally come with.

I find it funny that FFG hasn't said anything about this and no one is getting a reply yet.

It's clear that the templates are a different size versus the cardboard and were made improperly. They should be replaced by FFG.

I wonder what they will be saying and doing at other upcoming regionals.

From a standpoint of legal technicality - the wording of the bomb reference card says only to slide the token guides into the end of the template.

Even though the picture on the card normally shows the template fully seated on the template, the wording does not say it has to be. If you have pushed the token on the template as far as it will go, you are technically meeting the requirement as written.

I could see a TO ruling them OK to use, because the template technically will allow the template to go in between the guides - but just not seat as you normally expect.

I can also see a TO ruling them out for the same reason.

Best bet would bring your cardboard versions as a backup if you want to try to use the acrylic.

AND - there's no reason why you shouldn't have the cardboard versions if you have the upgrade card that they normally come with.

To be fair, OP is extremely busy right now. Monday they put out a massive article set they are still getting tons of emails about that. They are probably being bombarded about nationals registration as Origins sign up structure was not exactly the greatest. Throw into this all the regionals that are going on and TOs everywhere have questions AND thats all only for ONE of their games.

I find it funny that FFG hasn't said anything about this and no one is getting a reply yet.

It's clear that the templates are a different size versus the cardboard and were made improperly. They should be replaced by FFG.

I wonder what they will be saying and doing at other upcoming regionals.

From a standpoint of legal technicality - the wording of the bomb reference card says only to slide the token guides into the end of the template.

Even though the picture on the card normally shows the template fully seated on the template, the wording does not say it has to be. If you have pushed the token on the template as far as it will go, you are technically meeting the requirement as written.

I could see a TO ruling them OK to use, because the template technically will allow the template to go in between the guides - but just not seat as you normally expect.

I can also see a TO ruling them out for the same reason.

Best bet would bring your cardboard versions as a backup if you want to try to use the acrylic.

AND - there's no reason why you shouldn't have the cardboard versions if you have the upgrade card that they normally come with.

To be fair, OP is extremely busy right now. Monday they put out a massive article set they are still getting tons of emails about that. They are probably being bombarded about nationals registration as Origins sign up structure was not exactly the greatest. Throw into this all the regionals that are going on and TOs everywhere have questions AND thats all only for ONE of their games.

Imo it's not right to refuse a player who brings these to a tournament as they are ffg official tokens

I can understand asking them to replace with the original cardboard tokens and if someone at the event had to loan out a set

However if that was not possible, I don't think it's right to refuse or ask a player to spend 20 bucks just for a piece if cardboard

I for one would have no problem if my opponent used these against me.

Until it's otherwise stated I think people should lighten up

Its a **** game for Christ sakes

First world problems at its finest

Hard to believe grown men/women can act this way. As in possibly refuse a player or make them spend money for a piece of cardboard

Imo it's not right to refuse a player who brings these to a tournament as they are ffg official tokens

I can understand asking them to replace with the original cardboard tokens and if someone at the event had to loan out a set

However if that was not possible, I don't think it's right to refuse or ask a player to spend 20 bucks just for a piece if cardboard

If you are using the card, you should have the template. There shouldn't be a need to spend 20 dollars or have a set of the original templates loaned to you at that point.

Imo it's not right to refuse a player who brings these to a tournament as they are ffg official tokens

I can understand asking them to replace with the original cardboard tokens and if someone at the event had to loan out a set

However if that was not possible, I don't think it's right to refuse or ask a player to spend 20 bucks just for a piece if cardboard

I for one would have no problem if my opponent used these against me.

Until it's otherwise stated I think people should lighten up

Its a **** game for Christ sakes

First world problems at its finest

Hard to believe grown men/women can act this way. As in possibly refuse a played or make them spend money for a piece of cardboard

If you are using the card, you should have the template. There shouldn't be a need to spend 20 dollars or have a set of the original templates loaned to you at that point.

Right. The acrlyic cluster mine tokens don't actually come with the upgrade card, do they? In order to play it, you need the upgrade card. If you have the upgrade card, you have the cardboard tokens, right?

Imo it's not right to refuse a player who brings these to a tournament as they are ffg official tokens

I can understand asking them to replace with the original cardboard tokens and if someone at the event had to loan out a set

However if that was not possible, I don't think it's right to refuse or ask a player to spend 20 bucks just for a piece if cardboard

I for one would have no problem if my opponent used these against me.

Until it's otherwise stated I think people should lighten up

Its a **** game for Christ sakes

First world problems at its finest

Hard to believe grown men/women can act this way. As in possibly refuse a played or make them spend money for a piece of cardboard

They had to spend money for a piece of cardboard anyway since they needed the cards. Now, I can understand a problem occurring if someone didn't bring the regular templates with them because they weren't aware of the size problem, but if you're aware of the problem, you really ought to bring the cardboard ones along.

Many don't frequent the Internet etc

Lots of people take just what they need and nothing else.

If that did happen, and nobody had a replacement I wouldnt request them to spend 20 bucks on a ship they left at home for a piece of cardboard

If it was me I'd tell the neckbeards were to go, and lighten up

Like I said, it's a ******* game.

Don't think anyone should be penalized for ffg **** up

Nobody has complain how the Proton bombs or proximity mines are not 100 accurate to the original piece

All of a sudden it's a big deal

If this is the most important thing people have to worry about in a game, congrats on having nothing else more important to worry about