So, from the beginning the forums have been crammed with topics about how to fix different ships, the T-65 being the current topic of choice. But last night I got thinking about how for me, the Thematics of the game are (in general) more important than how balanced or competitive any one ship is. For example, I'm ok with the idea that over time the T-65 has become less effective, simply because that's how things developed in the Star Wars universe. In other words, if the T-65 never became obsolete, what would be the point of developing the T-75? I like that the game reflects the technological progression of the story. But that's just me, and though I do play at my local store, I'm not a hard-core tournament player. What are your thoughts? Which is more important, the thematic flavor of the game, or that every ship be competitive?

I really love a list that can do both. HUGE fan.

Here's a list that's double PS9 with two Tacticians and 4 bounty hunters. I think it's viable and also has mega flavor:

Theme can make banter more fun, but smashing your brain against someone else's brain is why I play.

You can have both with lots of lists.

My favourite crackshot swarm is the "Omega Squadron"

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Crack Shot (1)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Crack Shot (1)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Crack Shot (1)

Omega Squadron Pilot (17)
Crack Shot (1)

Total: 99

pretty sure we drove through Theme or Competitiveness, New Mexico on the way to the Albuquerque regional...

I like a bit of both, but lean towards TasteTheRainbow's assertion.

I usually like good lists (not that all lack theme, far from it), but I occasionally do the odd 'fun' or 'theme' list.

I also find the becoming obsolete reasoning a bit flawed: that's why we have points. The T-70 should definitely be a better ship than the T-65, but they should be costed in such a way than 100 points of T-70s are roughly equal to 100 points of T-65s.

Upon reflection, I guess I have played a lot of 'for fun' and/or 'themed' lists. And while I have enjoyed those games I think I have to say that I like the competitive list matches at least as much.

Flavour is always the first consideration.

I think if you lose the aspect of fun in the game it becomes rather boring rather quickly.

It is first and foremost.....a game. As such it should be entertaining and fun.

I think far too many folks get caught up in and lost in the competitive side of it and then it isn't fun unless you are winning. My son and I got sucked into this highly competitive side as have many friends of mine and it stopped being about fun and started being more about attending tournaments and winning prizes. We've taken a step back to look at the bigger picture and enjoy the game more. Sure we still attend tournaments and are going to regionals this year since I won and SC and was able to secure us spots in the Regional.

I prefer to run fun lists that are competitive at the same time and that is what I gear my lists towards. Neither my son nor I tend to run lists like the quad tlt or triple toilet seats. We prefer a bigger challenge but that is a personal thing. For us it isn't just about winning now but more about having fun with ships we like to fly. They are still relatively competitive but they MUST be fun.

They are still relatively competitive but they MUST be fun.

Of course, what's fun for me might not necessarily be fun for you. .

As I proved last night when we played a game of Smash Up and I (thanks to the grumpy kittens) first lowered a minion to 3, took control of it and then sacrificed it to an ability (of course, she then proceeded to slap me silly with some dinosaur princesses).

Yeah, when playing MtG I play blue, why?

Fun lists for fun and Competitive lists for... competitions?

I think you can deal with old ships and new generations ships through balancing. i.e. An old ship may cost less points than a new/better ship.

There's really no reason you can't do both.

The competitiveness of something is based on whether or not it's worth it's point cost. If being thematic makes a ship "too weak" or "too powerful" you adjust the cost until that's no longer the case.

Yes, a T-65 is weaker than a T-70. It also costs less points. If it's still not worth using, then it's not cheap enough.

I think far too many folks get caught up in and lost in the competitive side of it and then it isn't fun unless you are winning.

Theme. But shuttle with the emperor with red escort s<€k's.

I think far too many folks get caught up in and lost in the competitive side of it and then it isn't fun unless you are winning.

I have never failed to enjoy a loss.

I think far too many folks get caught up in and lost in the competitive side of it and then it isn't fun unless you are winning.

I have never failed to enjoy a loss.

Fair enough. Most folks don't enjoy losing though. I enjoy a great game and if I lose that game I'm perfectly fine with it. I just don't like to lose ALL the time - lol.

!!!THEME!!!

How about Vader's Black Eight Squadron for Theme.

Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (23)
Fire-Control System (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (23)
Fire-Control System (2)
Plasma Torpedoes (3)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 99

I see a very thick wall between casual and competitive play.

When I am at home playing with the family, ALL the T-65s are out and we just have a ball making Pew-Pew noises.

At gaming night I lean more competitive but will occasionally throw out a "WTF EVEN IS THAT PILOT" lists just to keep others on their toes and to teach myself more about the game.

At local tournaments, I go pretty hard and bring hard lists.

At store champs and regionals, I bring the best possible list I can make and try my best to win.

The thematic elements of the game should always be secondary to balance. It’s more important to the game that you have a basically fair structure, so that people can have fun playing the game. If the ships are balanced ‘thematically’ or ‘realistically’, then right off the bat you eliminate a large portion of ships not only from tournament play, but make it harder to have fun with those ships in a normal game. It’s not a fun game if I put a TIE Defender on the table and I can stomp about 10 Z-95s with it reliably; not under the current pricing scheme anyway.

Keep in mind that the points costs of ships aren’t necessarily the price of ships in-universe (how many imperial credits is one squad point worth, I wonder?). If you’re thinking about the game very thematically, then perhaps you should be ignoring the points cost of ships altogether and substituting your own system.

If a thematic game is what you’re after, you should really look into playing scenarios, or playing with some basic list-building restrictions. You can have a game that is both competitive and thematic, but the best foundation for that kind of game is a strong game balance that makes sure ships are of similar cost-effectiveness, or that are 'balanced'.

gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other consideration

note, I don't expect everything to be "competitive", but for my personal preference I do expect something unique and, perferably, utterly independent on the dice

Wave 7 and Wave 8 have been, by far, my favorites in this regard

7 brought us the mighty K (bombs, SLAM shenanigans) and Deathrain (mo bombs, mo shenanigans), plus the seldom used but still very potent YV-666 (a great vessel for rng resistant builds such as gunner bossk and now dengar 4lom)

8 brought us the Ghost (just...holy crap shenanigans everywhere), the JM5k (bumpmasters, super powerful torpedoes) and the misthunter crew (green dice? what green dice)

Nobody even plays 2 Royal Guards with Palpatine. That's the true flavor aces.

At first, some carnor and turr/soontir with Plaptine was really flavorful. nowadays its vader and soontir, who arent the right ones.

gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other consideration

note, I don't expect everything to be "competitive", but for my personal preference I do expect something unique and, perferably, utterly independent on the dice

Wave 7 and Wave 8 have been, by far, my favorites in this regard

7 brought us the mighty K (bombs, SLAM shenanigans) and Deathrain (mo bombs, mo shenanigans), plus the seldom used but still very potent YV-666 (a great vessel for rng resistant builds such as gunner bossk and now dengar 4lom)

8 brought us the Ghost (just...holy crap shenanigans everywhere), the JM5k (bumpmasters, super powerful torpedoes) and the misthunter crew (green dice? what green dice)

No no no... the more rolling of dice, the better. Otherwise I won't have an excuse when I lose.

gameplay >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any other consideration

note, I don't expect everything to be "competitive", but for my personal preference I do expect something unique and, perferably, utterly independent on the dice

Wave 7 and Wave 8 have been, by far, my favorites in this regard

7 brought us the mighty K (bombs, SLAM shenanigans) and Deathrain (mo bombs, mo shenanigans), plus the seldom used but still very potent YV-666 (a great vessel for rng resistant builds such as gunner bossk and now dengar 4lom)

8 brought us the Ghost (just...holy crap shenanigans everywhere), the JM5k (bumpmasters, super powerful torpedoes) and the misthunter crew (green dice? what green dice)