Also given this thread is mostly about Imperial squadrons/fighters, it might be best to take any actual fleet composition advice to the thread devoted to it.

I have created a thread in the fleet builds section that specifically discusses my list, if anyone wants to give advice about the ships themselves. The reason I included my list in the OP was for background information so readers would know why I was asking the question I was asking, which is still "What is(are) the best way(s) to build an Imperial fighter screen that keeps your ships alive, without totally warping your list into a fighter list?"

So far, the answer seems to be one of the following:

1. Howlrunner + Dengar heavy counter

2. "Aces" with Dengar, Vader, Mauler, and Soontir

3. Instigator and a light spattering of TIE Fighters/Interceptors // yes, this isn't strictly squadrons, but it's still relevant

The reason I still keep asking questions about these on this thread is that I am curious which of these is actually the best (if any), or at least what their strengths and weaknesses (regardless of the ship composition of the rest of the fleet) are.

The important thing to realize about the squadron minigame is you can "lose" the squadron minigame provided you still win the main game. If you face a list with 5 X-Wings + Jan + 2 Scurrgs (Rocmistro is correct that Dash brings it over the limit, which is illegal, so let's leave Dash off for now), that player has almost completely maxed out their squadron points when he could have invested them in, say, an MC80, or two smaller ships (Nebulons/CR90s). If you can spend less points than the squadron blob but limit the effectiveness of the cloud of squadrons, then you came out net ahead. That doesn't mean you need to destroy all of them, just inconvenience them enough to the point where they don't make a meaningful difference in your game relative to their cost.

Or to put it another way, a general rule of fleet-building I subscribe to is:

If you spend more than half of your possible squadron points (so more than 1/6 of the points cost of the game) on squadrons, then you need a plan for how squadrons are going to help you win the real game rather than just the squadron minigame. If you've spent that many points only one keeping your ships safe from enemy bombers, then you overspent your points because once the skies are clear your TIEs are pretty lackluster anti-ship assets.

If you spend less than half of your possible squadron points then your goal should be primarily keeping yourself safe from enemy squadrons. This doesn't require you to wipe them all out, just to keep them honest.

So with that said if you're trying to come up with a squadron build that is good against the blob of doom you encountered earlier but keeps your points spent effectively, you need to recognize the limitations of what you encountered:

1. Jan Ors can only spend 2 of her Braces per turn before she starts to lose them for good.
2. X-Wings are great for keeping Jan Ors safe but will only do 2 damage on average per attack so will need to gang up on TIE Fighters if they choose to attack them back. They're not very cost-effective bombers.
3. Scurrgs are counting on Intel + Grit to sneak through your defenses.
4. The entire blob is speed 3.

Therefore you'll want an approach that seeks to counter these benefits by:

1. The more 2+ damage attacks you can get in per individual turn, the better. You especially want to be generating 3+ of these kinds of attacks per turn. Jan will want to spend Braces to bring 2+ damage down by at least 1. Throwing in TIEs piecemeal helps her here. You want your squadrons to pour on the attacks once they decide to commit. Meaningful flak from Raiders (which can hit numerous X-Wings at once) or other instant-damage effects like Soontir Fel or Mauler Mithel are also helpful.
2. Place your squadrons in such a way that they gang up on X-Wings with minimal other X-Wings engaging them back. A TIE at 1 HP is still alive, as is an Aggressor at 3 (and then 1). Your opponent will need to issue squadron commands to move reserve X-Wings up and attack TIEs rather than going right on by towards your ships.
3. Simply having a lot of squadrons can help you gang up on Scurrgs who land outside the Intel bubble. This will require Jan Ors to come help, which means she isn't helping the blob push forward into your ships. Scurggs should be your priority target if you can get a bead on them - they're the cost-effective bombers that the X-Wing+Jan cloud is trying to push towards your ships.
4. You want speed 4+ squadrons so you can get the alpha strike on a speed 3 squadron cloud.

So with all that said, I'd recommend something like the following:

Fleet points:

Raider-I

+Ordnance Experts (you can reroll the black flak dice, which nearly always results in 2 damage per squadron you're attacking)

+Instigator

The important thing to note about Raiders is they're flexible ships. In games where squadrons aren't a big deal they're happy to hunt enemy ships once you get the hang of piloting them. Therefore the points spent on Raiders aren't strictly anti-squadron points.

Squadron points (keeping to 67 or less per my advice above):

Howlrunner (16)

4 TIE Fighters (32)

Mauler Mithel (15)

For a total of 63 - you can also get a very workable mob of 8 TIE Fighters for 64 points, but that tends to work better with 2 ISDs (to command them all in one turn).

Usage: Try to determine where the enemy squadron blob is going to go. You can do this by deploying one of your other ships first and then waiting it out until your enemy starts deploying squadrons. Try to deploy your squadrons and Raider opposite. Be cagey with your TIEs and don't commit them until the Rebel squadron blob is within striking distance, preferably close enough for Instigator to flak within the next turn. Command your TIEs to engage the weakest elements available to you. Gang up on stragglers at the edges of the blob. Keep commanding your TIEs for as long as you expect them to live. Flak with the Raider if possible.

I don't guarantee that you'll win the squadron minigame but with good use you should give your opponent's squadron cloud a pretty bloody lip and keep them from meaningfully endangering the rest of your fleet. The important thing to remember with TIEs is you need to do everything in your power to ensure they get the alpha strike, gang up on enemy squadrons, and minimize enemies who can attack them back. This means you should be pretty cagey with them and keep them near/behind your ships until it's go time. Simply flying them straight at the enemy is going to result in disappointment.

This was a big help just from a learning perspective. Thank you.

Hey no problem, I'm glad it was helpful. It took me a little while to really get the hang of how to manage squadrons in Armada* so I'm happy to help others in a similar situation. Ideally, this is what forums should be about .

*Learning how to squadron well and how to black dice well are probably two of the most difficult elements of the game to master, but the payoff for both is very rewarding.

...If you spend more than half of your possible squadron points (so more than 1/6 of the points cost of the game) on squadrons...

...Squadron points (keeping to 67 or less per my advice above)...

I love that we both arrived at almost exactly the same rule-of-thumb number for anti-squadron points, even though we got there from opposite sides--you theoretically and me empirically.

(Only just seen the thread - I did miss your non-upgraded Raider, so apologies! It was because you'd asked earlier in the conversation whether it was worth taking one, hence my assumption that you hadn't done so.)

I'd also just like to say that I think Snipafist hits the nail on the head. On more than one occasion, I've more than won the squadron battle, and lost the overall war. I might have done a **** good job, but the victory still belongs to my opponent.

For that reason, I now always take a dedicated fighter screen whose sole job is to tie up enemy squadrons as effectively as possible for as few points as is sensible (which is about the same as Snipafist's and Ardaedhel's rule-of-thumb number, interestingly). If I then take more squadrons, it's with the explicit purpose of using those extras to take down capital ships. But the fighter screen remains the same, and its job remains the same - stop enemy squadrons from getting at my capital ships. If they die doing so, then that's fine, they've still done what I wanted them to.

Let's say I went with Snipafist's suggestion:

Fleet points:

Raider-I

+Ordnance Experts (you can reroll the black flak dice, which nearly always results in 2 damage per squadron you're attacking)

+Instigator

Squadron points:

Howlrunner (16)

4 TIE Fighters (32)

Mauler Mithel (15)

So, I'd be saving ~20 points by dropping Dengar, swapping TIE Fighters in for the Interceptors, and then putting Ordnance Experts on Instigator . (Brace for a slightly off-topic question.) In theory, am I spending those points on Intel Officers for Relentless and Demolisher , or is it better just to increase my bid? Some people on this thread have already told me that I've been over-upgrading, and I'd hate to fall into that rut again.

I would loose Instigator and go with Impetuous.

The raider is too fast to stay in a Squadron fight and tie things down for very long.

Impetuous gets you 2 shots at very dangerous fighters.

how many points are you really looking to spend on squadrons?

I would not drop Dengar if you are using howlrunner or Mauler.

I know someone has already mentioned this to you, but I've used it and its awesome.

Howelrunner

Dengar

Tie Advanced

4 Tie Interceptors.

92 points. and the interceptors have counter 4 (plus a reroll). I would even add in a 2nd tie advanced.

Let's say I went with Snipafist's suggestion:

Fleet points:

Raider-I

+Ordnance Experts (you can reroll the black flak dice, which nearly always results in 2 damage per squadron you're attacking)

+Instigator

Squadron points:

Howlrunner (16)

4 TIE Fighters (32)

Mauler Mithel (15)

So, I'd be saving ~20 points by dropping Dengar, swapping TIE Fighters in for the Interceptors, and then putting Ordnance Experts on Instigator . (Brace for a slightly off-topic question.) In theory, am I spending those points on Intel Officers for Relentless and Demolisher , or is it better just to increase my bid? Some people on this thread have already told me that I've been over-upgrading, and I'd hate to fall into that rut again.

Can only really answer that question by knowing how expensive your list was in the first place, and how much it costs with those changes. It's a good idea to bid for initiative, but your bid doesn't need to be extreme.

I'd start looking for a way to get another ship in there, actually.

If you drop the ISD to an ISD-I (+10)

You don't need Gunnery Teams any more (+7)

Neither can you take Electronic Countermeasures (+7)

I wouldn't bother with SW7 Ion Cannons (+5) due to Vader's reroll ability

That gives you 50 total points to play with. That's another Raider-I with Ordnance Experts right there. Alternatively, that's also dropping the Demolisher to get another ISD-I + some upgrades in its place (I don't know if you own two ISDs or two Raiders, to be fair).

I like ISD-Is with Vader because all those dice want rerolls:

• Blank red dice want rerolls
• Blank black dice want rerolls
• Blue dice want rerolls if you are still hunting for an accuracy in your attack.

In general the ISD-II is superior, but ISD-Is with Vader or Motti do just fine with me. The ISD-II configuration doesn't benefit quite as much (but still benefits! check out my dumb math thread if you're curious) from Vader but the ISD-II is also less reckless than the ISD-I, so your mileage may vary.

If you want to keep your list the same three ships, though, then I'd use those 20 points towards more upgrades (still feels over-upgraded to me, but let's go with it...)

Drop the SW7 Ion Cannons for +5 points no matter what you do, though, which should leave you with 26ish points to spend.

Add an Intel Officer to the ISD-II (-7)

Add Wulff Yularen to the Demolisher (-7, make sure to take a Navigate token the first turn and use Wulff to keep recycling it to trigger Engine Techs - you can Concentrate Fire or Engineering instead - Vader loves Concentrate Fire for more dice to get rerolled if necessary)

Add Boosted Comms to the ISD-II (-4)

That leaves you with 8 points remaining, which I'd sit pat on. This gives you a good shot at going first, which in general you want.

Can only really answer that question by knowing how expensive your list was in the first place, and how much it costs with those changes. It's a good idea to bid for initiative, but your bid doesn't need to be extreme.

Here is the list as it currently stands. Snipafist's suggestion of

- Dengar

- 3 TIE Interceptors

+4 TIE Fighters

+ Ordnance Experts on Instigator

puts me at 382 points with 18 to work with.

Throwing Intel Officers on Relentless and Demolisher puts it at 396/400. But, as some people have said, I've got a lot of upgrades on my ships already, so I don't necessarily want to pile more on. An 18-point bid is way more than I'd usually have, so I would like to add something , at least.

I'd start looking for a way to get another ship in there, actually.

If you drop the ISD to an ISD-I (+10)

You don't need Gunnery Teams any more (+7)

Neither can you take Electronic Countermeasures (+7)

I wouldn't bother with SW7 Ion Cannons (+5) due to Vader's reroll ability

That gives you 50 total points to play with. That's another Raider-I with Ordnance Experts right there. Alternatively, that's also dropping the Demolisher to get another ISD-I + some upgrades in its place (I don't know if you own two ISDs or two Raiders, to be fair).

I like ISD-Is with Vader because all those dice want rerolls:

• Blank red dice want rerolls
• Blank black dice want rerolls
• Blue dice want rerolls if you are still hunting for an accuracy in your attack.

In general the ISD-II is superior, but ISD-Is with Vader or Motti do just fine with me. The ISD-II configuration doesn't benefit quite as much (but still benefits! check out my dumb math thread if you're curious) from Vader but the ISD-II is also less reckless than the ISD-I, so your mileage may vary.

I do have access to a second Raider, but unfortunately not another ISD (yet ). I mainly took the ISD-II over the ISD-I because I really didn't want the thing to die, and so I opted to have it be more effective at longer ranges. The idea of going even more aggro and adding another Raider intrigues me, though. I'll have to play around with it.

If you want to keep your list the same three ships, though, then I'd use those 20 points towards more upgrades (still feels over-upgraded to me, but let's go with it...)

Drop the SW7 Ion Cannons for +5 points no matter what you do, though, which should leave you with 26ish points to spend.

Add an Intel Officer to the ISD-II (-7)

Add Wulff Yularen to the Demolisher (-7, make sure to take a Navigate token the first turn and use Wulff to keep recycling it to trigger Engine Techs - you can Concentrate Fire or Engineering instead - Vader loves Concentrate Fire for more dice to get rerolled if necessary)

Add Boosted Comms to the ISD-II (-4)

That leaves you with 8 points remaining, which I'd sit pat on. This gives you a good shot at going first, which in general you want.

Not tied to the 3-ship model. My goal is to make the list as effective as possible.

My one quirk is that for casual games I pretty much put a title on everything, though, just for fun.

Can only really answer that question by knowing how expensive your list was in the first place, and how much it costs with those changes. It's a good idea to bid for initiative, but your bid doesn't need to be extreme.

Here is the list as it currently stands. Snipafist's suggestion of

- Dengar

- 3 TIE Interceptors

+4 TIE Fighters

+ Ordnance Experts on Instigator

puts me at 382 points with 18 to work with.

Throwing Intel Officers on Relentless and Demolisher puts it at 396/400. But, as some people have said, I've got a lot of upgrades on my ships already, so I don't necessarily want to pile more on. An 18-point bid is way more than I'd usually have, so I would like to add something , at least.

Being someone with reasonably limited resources myself, I fully empathise with not having the number of ships I'd like for the flexibility of list building! This doesn't need to be an obstacle to experimenting, however. You could try cutting down on some upgrades on the ships you currently have, and throwing in a second raider. Or (assuming that you have a core set) you could also try taking a VSD.

4-ship fleets are great fun, and often spook Rebel players, who expect us to have just two or three on the board. They also allow you to compete activation for activation with all but the maddest Rebel lineups. But there's another reason I would consider doing so. With so many upgrades on just two ships, one knocked off the board is a huge win for your opponent. By spreading your resources, you not only give yourself greater flexibility, but also make it harder for your opponent to pick a juicy ship with expensive upgrades and focus all their firepower on it.

If nothing else, they look **** cool lined up.

Can only really answer that question by knowing how expensive your list was in the first place, and how much it costs with those changes. It's a good idea to bid for initiative, but your bid doesn't need to be extreme.

Here is the list as it currently stands. Snipafist's suggestion of

- Dengar

- 3 TIE Interceptors

+4 TIE Fighters

+ Ordnance Experts on Instigator

puts me at 382 points with 18 to work with.

Throwing Intel Officers on Relentless and Demolisher puts it at 396/400. But, as some people have said, I've got a lot of upgrades on my ships already, so I don't necessarily want to pile more on. An 18-point bid is way more than I'd usually have, so I would like to add something , at least.

Being someone with reasonably limited resources myself, I fully empathise with not having the number of ships I'd like for the flexibility of list building! This doesn't need to be an obstacle to experimenting, however. You could try cutting down on some upgrades on the ships you currently have, and throwing in a second raider. Or (assuming that you have a core set) you could also try taking a VSD.

4-ship fleets are great fun, and often spook Rebel players, who expect us to have just two or three on the board. They also allow you to compete activation for activation with all but the maddest Rebel lineups. But there's another reason I would consider doing so. With so many upgrades on just two ships, one knocked off the board is a huge win for your opponent. By spreading your resources, you not only give yourself greater flexibility, but also make it harder for your opponent to pick a juicy ship with expensive upgrades and focus all their firepower on it.

If nothing else, they look **** cool lined up.

Do you mean taking a VSD instead of the ISD?

Do you mean taking a VSD instead of the ISD?

I'm not necessarily prescribing a specific fleet, I'm just suggesting that you play around with it. Free up the upgrade points and see what you can do with it. One of the things that has surprised me when I've taken a heavily upgraded ship is how few of those upgrades I actually end up using, and using to good effect. It's quite rare that a set of upgrades will be worth an entire other ship. I find this with Demolisher in particular - everyone loves a highly manoeuvrable version, with huge armament and re-rolls, but in reality I feel like the points could be better used on another ship. The whole aim behind the 400 point limit is that you can never have exactly what you want, which is the fun of list building.