33 minutes ago, WuFame said:

Ha. Wow. Welp, sounds like you guys already have the community you want.

I do have the community I want. It's the community where I post off the wall nonsense like the Blockade Squadron list or Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, and it gets whipped into something resembling fighting shape. It's the community that tolerates my stubbornness about weird anti-meta nonsense like double ISDs, or Rhymer/Decimators, and helps me make them ready for combat. It's one that debriefs after every action, and helps me improve my play in a way only more time could better. It's a community that loves Armada, whether it loves flotillas, hates them, or habitually ignores these sorts of threads. It's the sort of community that didn't troll the living daylights out of me when @Darth Sanguis and I ended up arguing in the Trailer Up thread about whether or not the Jedi were a net positive force on galactic history.

Yeah, we've still got trolls. Some have reformed in their ways, some have not. We have our rough edges, and sometimes we crack jokes that we shouldn't, or that don't come across the way we intend. We're human, it's what happens. I'm very proud of us because, at least the ones I've been watching (the biggest ones here in the main forum), the most recent series of flotilla debate threads have not devolved into flame wars or incessant trolling. We keep each other honest. I don't think anyone on here genuinely gains any real pleasure from trolling others, especially leading lights of all stripes who have invested their time and energy into this game and this community. And if those people do exist, you have my sympathy, support, and can know I personally, for whatever it's worth, do not, have not, and will never condone such behavior. It's unbecoming of a command officer in either the Imperial or New Republic Navy. Yeah, I can't always post pushing back, but I can right now, so I will. It's what I can do, and it's what I expect of myself, and ask of everyone else.

I really am sorry that you, @Reinholt, and others are concerned about the state of the game. I wish I could empathize, but I don't get to play enough to really see that effect, and my FLGS is notorious for actively lacking a meta. Whatever you do, don't let a handful of dip***** drive you away from the game. If the game state means you can't enjoy competitive lists, I do beseech you to ignore that for a game or two, and get back into the spirit of big plastic ISDs and TIE Fighters beating up plastic Home Ones and X-wings. I know we don't get a Kumbaya,-Let's-all-hold-hands-now moment here because this is real life, but by God I'm not going to let someone who I believe has actively contributed to the community walk away without a fight from me. There's enough fear and division going around as it is. We don't need it here too.

Now there's a fight I wanna see. Fighting someone so that they don't walk away from something the love.

8 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Now there's a fight I wanna see. Fighting someone so that they don't walk away from something they love.

I've done it before and I'll do it again. I am not a white knight, and I don't want to be one. What I am is someone channeling years of Boy Scout, Venturing, and personal experience at being the guy between you and the door, whether you like it or not. If you convince me you're fully rational, I'll step aside, but so help me God not a moment before. There are some times and some things where I don't think people deserve to be allowed to make mistakes. If you convince me it isn't a mistake, I might let you go, but not without an honest attempt. If you want to walk away from this game over flotillas, the community, whether here on the forums or in your own area, anything, you can talk to me first. I can't solve the flotilla/activation issue, and I can't promise to teach you to play at the same level as JJ or Ard or Captain Weather or anyone else on this forum, but I'll try, and I'll show you where you can go when you've passed me. What I can promise is to do my damnedest to remind you why you got into this game in the first place, and why you really gain nothing in departing. I couldn't have stopped Reinholt, but if someone else wants to come vent to me, my inbox is open. Consider it a standing offer.*

*Please warn me if it will be a flurry of essays. I'll need to empty it some.

14 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Whatever you do, don't let a handful of dip***** drive you away from the game. If the game state means you can't enjoy competitive lists, I do beseech you to ignore that for a game or two, and get back into the spirit of big plastic ISDs and TIE Fighters beating up plastic Home Ones and X-wings.

This, really, is kind of where I'm at. I just brought a 3-ship, 5-deployment Interdictor list to a local tournament, just because I wanted to try something different. I placed top 4 of 14 with it (I won't pretend some lucky matchups didn't contribute to this)... but much more importantly, I had a blast just showing up with a few big star destroyers and some vanilla TIE fighters and pushing spess-ships around on the table, even in the game I got tabled in.

1 minute ago, Ardaedhel said:

This, really, is kind of where I'm at. I just brought a 3-ship, 5-deployment Interdictor list to a local tournament, just because I wanted to try something different. I placed top 4 of 14 with it (I won't pretend some lucky matchups didn't contribute to this)... but much more importantly, I had a blast just showing up with a few big star destroyers and some vanilla TIE fighters and pushing spess-ships around on the table, even in the game I got tabled in.

I'm hoping for my next tournament to have stands for the Disney diecast ISDs, not because I want to stand out (ok maybe a little), but to have some fun with the game, and give my opponent a unique experience. I fully understand the appeal of playing Armada or any game you are skilled in at a competitive level, but if you aren't having fun, you probably need to step back, take a deep breath, and go buy a soda and some Oreos for the rest of the game.

I think a lot of it also is, I do, and a lot of people like to win. Part of the fun is having a chance to win with what you like. Though honestly, having a friend and opponent tell me to stop, buy some oreos sounds like a wonderful time.

2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think a lot of it also is, I do, and a lot of people like to win. Part of the fun is having a chance to win with what you like. Though honestly, having a friend and opponent tell me to stop, buy some oreos sounds like a wonderful time.

I'm pretty average as a player (I'd like to think mostly for time constraints but who knows), so I have to make up my margin somewhere. My fun is plopping down two ISDs on a table, or the look on my opponent's face when I know they're having fun. It's what I need, and I know it's what other people need too sometimes, so I do my level best to give it to them (without throwing the match, obviously).

Thanks for the thoughts. My place in Armada right now is helping build my local community back up, and playing around with CC with friends. A break from the competitive scene sounds nice and enjoyable. I'll be looking forward to seeing some of you on the streams at Worlds.

40 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I think a lot of it also is, I do, and a lot of people like to win. Part of the fun is having a chance to win with what you like.

Completely unreasonable.

Yeah, I get that not everybody has the luxury of playing how they want and with whom they want, and have to take what games they can get. It's an unfortunate reality of pursing a fairly niche hobby that also requires someone else nearby to enjoy it. It kind of seems to me that players in metas that are small enough that this is an issue need to also be flexible enough to not always bring fleets dialed up to 11, if that's not everybody's preference.

I dunno, I guess I feel like there's a give-and-take that needs to happen for this kind of social hobby to be successful in an area if different people have different attitudes about level of competition. I bring a competitive fleet that I may not enjoy playing as much one week so my opponent can get better; he brings a thematic fleet the next week so I can make pew-pews with Star Destroyers and Nebulons.

The consequence of inflexibility here is losing what few play partners you do have, which is a **** shame. But some people would rather lose their opponents than not play to win all the time.*

The competitive tournament scene is of course a whole other ballgame, outside the scope of my thoughts here.

*Not a comment on anyone or group of people in particular, just kind of... pontificating.

31 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Completely unreasonable.

Yeah, I get that not everybody has the luxury of playing how they want and with whom they want, and have to take what games they can get. It's an unfortunate reality of pursing a fairly niche hobby that also requires someone else nearby to enjoy it. It kind of seems to me that players in metas that are small enough that this is an issue need to also be flexible enough to not always bring fleets dialed up to 11, if that's not everybody's preference.

I dunno, I guess I feel like there's a give-and-take that needs to happen for this kind of social hobby to be successful in an area if different people have different attitudes about level of competition. I bring a competitive fleet that I may not enjoy playing as much one week so my opponent can get better; he brings a thematic fleet the next week so I can make pew-pews with Star Destroyers and Nebulons.

The consequence of inflexibility here is losing what few play partners you do have, which is a **** shame. But some people would rather lose their opponents than not play to win all the time.*

The competitive tournament scene is of course a whole other ballgame, outside the scope of my thoughts here.

*Not a comment on anyone or group of people in particular, just kind of... pontificating.

Yeahhhhhhh..... I'm a lost play partner. I've had enough of playing kill the squadrons with my 134 grudgingly taken squadrons. Apparently I wasn't gud. Now I'm gud, but its not fun.

Most games end with maybe only 2 attacks with more than 2 dice. And everything gets shredded immediately. Lose a small ship to a squadron alpha every turn. Lose 75% of a large ship, lose the rest the next time. Really why bother.

*extra deleted squadron ranting.

This whole debacle has really drained the fun out of this game for me.

8 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

It's the sort of community that didn't troll the living daylights out of me when @Darth Sanguis and I ended up arguing in the Trailer Up thread about whether or not the Jedi were a net positive force on galactic history.

It was an interesting argument of perspective. I'm all about that ****.

"Against that positivism which stops before phenomena, saying,'there are only facts,' One should say: no, it is precisely facts that do not exist, only interpretations…"

7 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

This, really, is kind of where I'm at. I just brought a 3-ship, 5-deployment Interdictor list to a local tournament, just because I wanted to try something different. I placed top 4 of 14 with it (I won't pretend some lucky matchups didn't contribute to this)... but much more importantly, I had a blast just showing up with a few big star destroyers and some vanilla TIE fighters and pushing spess-ships around on the table, even in the game I got tabled in.

I've found that communities focused around competitive interaction often fight to maintain a balance between enjoyment and the need for victory. I've even seen communities dissolve because winning became the only important aspect. One of the reasons I haven't engaged in the online tournaments hosted here on the forums is avoidance of the competitive mindset. It's not subtle here either, many of the well known names here seem very focused on what's best for the competitive scene, and while there's nothing wrong with that, I can see where holds the potential to bleach the tone of Armada.

At local tournaments, knowing my nature to be overly competitive in other things, I have always attempted to run fleets that don't really follow any particular meta but are instead, simply fun to play. 2 months ago I ran 5 raiders with apts and a jendon/stele combo and 5/6 -6/5'd every match, but I had a blast. Last month I ran dual ISDs with no squads and came in 2nd place, but more importantly, I had fun. And as the host of the second event, every player there has told me to invite them if I run another. That's what the community is about to me. Folks having fun with daft little plastic ships! lol