"I killed an interceptor once" says local man. This resulted in the. Xwing meta crumbling overnight. Net lists are now seen as worthless and Paul Heaver quoted saying "Well, as we all know, that one guy killed an interceptor. It's no longer a viable ship in the game's competitive scene, knowing he's out there."

What makes PGS's comments here funniest, to me, is that across all five Regionals events held since the release of Wave 8, Soontir has won precisely no tournaments. He's in just four lists (of 40) that placed in the Top 8. To put that into perspective, Dash also appeared four times, and so did Howlrunner (including a win), and so did Whisper, and so did Biggs, and so did the Lothal Rebel.

The Inquisitor appeared five times. Omega Leader appeared six times.

Soontir is powerful, of course, especially with backup from Palpatine. But I don't see any indication at all that he's a runaway success: in fact, he's not even the most successful Imperial pilot.

I would be more willing to tolerate PGS's rhetoric if he actually presented some evidence for once.

He was going on and on about Superdash a few months ago when I repeatedly referred him to List Juggler Regionals, Worlds, and Nationals results. Not once did he ever recognize the facts.

Also, please note that he primarily flies generic jousters and is complaining about Soontir and Superdash... I wonder why...

I would be more willing to tolerate PGS's rhetoric if he actually presented some evidence for once.

He was going on and on about Superdash a few months ago when I repeatedly referred him to List Juggler Regionals, Worlds, and Nationals results. Not once did he ever recognize the facts.

Also, please note that he primarily flies generic jousters and is complaining about Soontir and Superdash... I wonder why...

So you're saying he's the slowpoke meme of the X-Wing board?

My god, he suddenly makes sense now.

What makes PGS's comments here funniest, to me, is that across all five Regionals events held since the release of Wave 8, Soontir has won precisely no tournaments. He's in just four lists (of 40) that placed in the Top 8. To put that into perspective, Dash also appeared four times, and so did Howlrunner (including a win), and so did Whisper, and so did Biggs, and so did the Lothal Rebel.

The Inquisitor appeared five times. Omega Leader appeared six times.

Soontir is powerful, of course, especially with backup from Palpatine. But I don't see any indication at all that he's a runaway success: in fact, he's not even the most successful Imperial pilot.

It's still hyper unfun to play against him.

I remember being told that, "Phantoms aren't OP, a Phantom didn't win worlds".

What makes PGS's comments here funniest, to me, is that across all five Regionals events held since the release of Wave 8, Soontir has won precisely no tournaments. He's in just four lists (of 40) that placed in the Top 8. To put that into perspective, Dash also appeared four times, and so did Howlrunner (including a win), and so did Whisper, and so did Biggs, and so did the Lothal Rebel.

The Inquisitor appeared five times. Omega Leader appeared six times.

Soontir is powerful, of course, especially with backup from Palpatine. But I don't see any indication at all that he's a runaway success: in fact, he's not even the most successful Imperial pilot.

It's still hyper unfun to play against him.

I remember being told that, "Phantoms aren't OP, a Phantom didn't win worlds".

Huh. That's weird because I find it hyper fun to fly against Soontir.

It's still hyper unfun to play against him.

Personally I love flying against and with Soontir Fel, not only because of the lore behind, but as well because it simply is great fun to have this long drawn out dogfight in which very little mistake counts, because you need to line up the perfect shot to hunt down the ace. The dice can easily betray you when you Fly Fel, but they usually do run as expected. Gives every attack this extra tension. Besides anything with ATs makes Turrets so much more interesting in the game.

I would be more willing to tolerate PGS's rhetoric if he actually presented some evidence for once.

He was going on and on about Superdash a few months ago when I repeatedly referred him to List Juggler Regionals, Worlds, and Nationals results. Not once did he ever recognize the facts.

Also, please note that he primarily flies generic jousters and is complaining about Soontir and Superdash... I wonder why...

I did know he flies generics (mostly scum iirc). But i never understood why. I mean not participating in the PS race and bidding is one thing but hating most named ships is the part i don't get!

I would be more willing to tolerate PGS's rhetoric if he actually presented some evidence for once.

He was going on and on about Superdash a few months ago when I repeatedly referred him to List Juggler Regionals, Worlds, and Nationals results. Not once did he ever recognize the facts.

Also, please note that he primarily flies generic jousters and is complaining about Soontir and Superdash... I wonder why...

Ah i missed his Dash is OP period? ****! I was just aware that he hated Fat Han and Shield regen and TLTs...

I did know he flies generics (mostly scum iirc). But i never understood why. I mean not participating in the PS race and bidding is one thing but hating most named ships is the part i don't get!

Jarrus might bring us another Rendar is OP season, I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

But then you'll miss out the calming Jedi's free focus token every round for that filthy triple action economy! Unless you have another ship with Jarrus on board..

I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

But then you'll miss out the calming Jedi's free focus token every round for that filthy triple action economy! Unless you have another ship with Jarrus on board..

A predictable smuggler is one who has to drop his spice and gets into that credit debt trap. Don't be greedy, double actions are more than enough. Don't be Han!

I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

But then you'll miss out the calming Jedi's free focus token every round for that filthy triple action economy! Unless you have another ship with Jarrus on board..

Rendar is better off with Jarrus, i think this is clear now. Even with 2 actions only he has his entire dial open and can hardly ever be blocked.

I agree that Jarrus is the better crew for Dash. I'm just saying if there's a solid build that can incorporate both Katarn in dash + Jarrus in another ship that'll be even better

I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

But then you'll miss out the calming Jedi's free focus token every round for that filthy triple action economy! Unless you have another ship with Jarrus on board..

Rendar is better off with Jarrus, i think this is clear now. Even with 2 actions only he has his entire dial open and can hardly ever be blocked.

And how beautiful that dial is when you realize that the Outriders whites become his new greens:

I don't think that there is a better dial in the game than this one. No Ship, except the K-Wing is faster than this one with EU and Jarrus, and nothing can be as agile while going that speed. If I would not like to play that, I would complain about it myself! ;-)

I've been flying new Dash a lot recently, alongside Lothal rebel with FCS, Hera and Ezra.

It feels like I'm cheating.

Soontir is powerful, of course, especially with backup from Palpatine. But I don't see any indication at all that he's a runaway success: in fact, he's not even the most successful Imperial pilot.

It's still hyper unfun to play against him.

It's been noted, but this is definitely an opinion.

I remember being told that, "Phantoms aren't OP, a Phantom didn't win worlds".

That's not what I said at the time about Phantoms, and it's not what I'm saying now about Fel.

At Peak Phantom, you saw exactly two kinds of lists: lists that incorporated Whisper, and lists that incorporated hard counters to Whisper. But we're not seeing that with Fel. So it's fine for you to say that he just isn't fun to play against, because that's an opinion and doesn't have to be justified. I hate playing against Biggs and Tractor Beams because they make choices for me at the table, and I don't like that feeling.

But if you're going to make the claim that Fel represents a balance problem, you have to explain why so many ships that aren't balance problems are making it into the cut at Regionals just as often as he is.

-

I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

But then you'll miss out the calming Jedi's free focus token every round for that filthy triple action economy! Unless you have another ship with Jarrus on board..

Rendar is better off with Jarrus, i think this is clear now. Even with 2 actions only he has his entire dial open and can hardly ever be blocked.

And how beautiful that dial is when you realize that the Outriders whites become his new greens:

I don't think that there is a better dial in the game than this one. No Ship, except the K-Wing is faster than this one with EU and Jarrus, and nothing can be as agile while going that speed. If I would not like to play that, I would complain about it myself! ;-)

Well I would make the argument that Juno has a better dial but that's about it.

I really like the combination of the smuggler with this stress-free Jedi.

But then you'll miss out the calming Jedi's free focus token every round for that filthy triple action economy! Unless you have another ship with Jarrus on board..

A predictable smuggler is one who has to drop his spice and gets into that credit debt trap. Don't be greedy, double actions are more than enough. Don't be Han!

Or do be Han and fly with Kyle and Kanan on the same ship!

I would be more willing to tolerate PGS's rhetoric if he actually presented some evidence for once.

He was going on and on about Superdash a few months ago when I repeatedly referred him to List Juggler Regionals, Worlds, and Nationals results. Not once did he ever recognize the facts.

Also, please note that he primarily flies generic jousters and is complaining about Soontir and Superdash... I wonder why...

Ah i missed his Dash is OP period? ****! I was just aware that he hated Fat Han and Shield regen and TLTs...

I did know he flies generics (mostly scum iirc). But i never understood why. I mean not participating in the PS race and bidding is one thing but hating most named ships is the part i don't get!

It's a lot of fun to pile in on ParaGoombaSlayer, trust me, I love doing it too. That being said, he has a point (in my opinion). I don't think it's nearly as bad as he makes it out to be, but every time I build a list for any kind of competitive event, I ask the question, "how do I deal with Soontir?" That leads to either two things: building in some level of anti-Soontir tech, or just shrugging and accepting that a match against Soontir will be an uphill battle.

It isn't, however, an auto-lose scenario. The problem is that for a list without anti-Soontir tech to beat a Soontir + Palp build, you need extraordinary luck, while Soontir completely mitigated the need for luck. I've had some success taking on Soontir with a Kanan + Warden Squadron list (Kanan chucks 8 dice into a lambda at range one while the K-Wing drops Sabine-powered Conner nets and adds some dice to help finish the lambda). This list though, is a race. You have to focus fire enemy ships efficiently while they are piling 3-4 dice from Soontir and the shuttle plus whatever 3rd ship they have). Kanan helps mitigate that somewhat, but in this scenario soontir just chills at range 3 (as does the inquisitor if he's around), gladly dealing with the ghosts measly 1 green die at that range. You need to be able to kill the shuttle in 2 rounds max, or the ghost will dissolve like those degradable packing peanuts. This still requires a lot of luck.

Alternatively I will go with Dash and Poe, another list I have had some success vs Soontir with, but the point remains. Unless you have dedicated anti-Soontir things in your list, it will be a frustrating experience. I've seen Soontir survive the dreaded U-boat alpha strike multiple times. I can't think of a single other ship that can do that without just tanking the hits. Maybe a focus/evade tycho near a recon spec esegi could survive one or two, but not all three.

Soontir is a perfect storm. Native boost allows autothrusters, PtL gives ridiculous action economy, stealth device gives him a 4th green die, and palp is the icing on the cake of death that is Soontir Fel. He is not invincible, he is not the end of the game as we know it, but he does help define the meta. Recognizing that (without hyperbole) is crucial, and "he's a glass cannon, just hit him; learn to play, noob!" Does everyone just as grave a disservice as "omg, Soontir is the worst, X-Wing is broken and unfun because of him." He is absurdly powerful, he is one of the top tier pilots in the game, and he requires planning against. Recognize his impact, admit that he's probably a bit over tuned, and move on.

This is a humble X-wing. It wants to fire at Soontir Fel, because Soontir Fel works for the Empire and the X-wing pilot doesn't like the Empire much.

By the way, these 2 sentences are the best thing I've read on these forums in a long time.

It's a lot of fun to pile in on ParaGoombaSlayer, trust me, I love doing it too. That being said, he has a point... every time I build a list for any kind of competitive event, I ask the question, "how do I deal with Soontir?"

If that was his point, I'd agree. There's not only the question of "how will I handle Fel?" but the corollary when building an Imperial list of "what am I putting in here that's better for the points than Fel?" He's a powerful piece, and I agree that you need a strategy for handling him.

Soontir is a perfect storm. Native boost allows autothrusters, PtL gives ridiculous action economy, stealth device gives him a 4th green die, and palp is the icing on the cake of death that is Soontir Fel. He is not invincible, he is not the end of the game as we know it, but he does help define the meta. Recognizing that (without hyperbole) is crucial, and "he's a glass cannon, just hit him; learn to play, noob!" Does everyone just as grave a disservice as "omg, Soontir is the worst, X-Wing is broken and unfun because of him." He is absurdly powerful, he is one of the top tier pilots in the game, and he requires planning against. Recognize his impact, admit that he's probably a bit over tuned, and move on.

He's definitely a Tier 1 pilot, but as I noted upthread, he doesn't appear to be uniquely powerful. I think part of the reason for that is that even if Fel weren't part of the metagame, the tools for dealing with high-PS arc dodgers and ships with very strong damage mitigation would still be important ones to include in your kit. And since those tools push back against Fel, he's prevented from running away with the game.

I will say, I build my lists with "will it kill the Inquistor" more these days, he's my true enemy.

I will say, I build my lists with "will it kill the Inquistor" more these days, he's my true enemy.

they're not the same but they are similar

neither really like conners much

I will say, I build my lists with "will it kill the Inquistor" more these days, he's my true enemy.

they're not the same but they are similar

neither really like conners much

you are you to have a blast running Deathrain and Deathfire in the same list aren't you?

I will say, I build my lists with "will it kill the Inquistor" more these days, he's my true enemy.

they're not the same but they are similar

neither really like conners much

Honestly I prefer flying the Inquisitor due to a number of things including fewer hard counters and not hitting like a weak noodle. Connor nets still punch him in the duck though.