But I'd argue that X-Wing is an abstract simulation of dogfighting in the Star Wars universe,

and that the spirit of the *game* is to blow things up.

Maybe, but not everyone is going to agree to that. Until the 'spirit of the game' is actually listed in the rules somewhere, it is a completely subjective thing and therefore not enforceable in any way.

You can't go to the TO and complain that someone isn't playing correctly, just because they have a different opinion than you do.

Especially when you're talking about things like regional tournaments.

I would agree that a system that encourages people to run for 75 minutes to win is a bad system. But that system doesn't actually exist right now and is very unlikely to ever exist.

And as was pointed out, the idea that you could keep Fel and Whisper alive for 75 minutes vs a full 100 points when you don't have init and have to move first, is fairly far fetched.

Whisper/Fel can run for a while and force their opponent to split up their ships. Meaning if they actually have to have combat it's on the Whisper/Fel players terms and to their advantage.

You still haven't addressed the fact that Whisper isn't actually very maneuverable if she's not attacking. And you still haven't addressed the fact that Fel is at a huge disadvantage against enemy PS9 aces if he has initiative.

But okay, let's set all that aside. It's the case right now that Whisper/Fel could run for a while and force an opponent to engage at a disadvantage--but we don't see that list or that strategy. Do you see how far you're moving the goalposts when you change your point from "Whisper/Fel could run for 75 minutes" to "well, Whisper/Fel could run for a while and use that to get an advantage"?

Not changing anything. They can run for quite a while. Cornering them is obviously possible. But it probably require breaking up and splitting off. Which means if push comes to shove. They could shove back.

Which means if push comes to shove. They could shove back.

Fel or Whisper getting shot first is not a good trade off, not if your whole plan revolves around avoiding damage. Especially Whisper which is quite fragile when not cloaked. Worse is when you're looking at a PS10+ ship so you can't even return fire.

Also with a two ship list, you can't really just run for the last 20 minutes. Not unless you're already ahead. If you've exchanged fire in the first 55 minutes something most likely several somethings are already dead and at that point a draw is not in the cards.

Whisper/Fel can run for a while and force their opponent to split up their ships. Meaning if they actually have to have combat it's on the Whisper/Fel players terms and to their advantage.

You still haven't addressed the fact that Whisper isn't actually very maneuverable if she's not attacking. And you still haven't addressed the fact that Fel is at a huge disadvantage against enemy PS9 aces if he has initiative.

But okay, let's set all that aside. It's the case right now that Whisper/Fel could run for a while and force an opponent to engage at a disadvantage--but we don't see that list or that strategy. Do you see how far you're moving the goalposts when you change your point from "Whisper/Fel could run for 75 minutes" to "well, Whisper/Fel could run for a while and use that to get an advantage"?

Not changing anything. They can run for quite a while. Cornering them is obviously possible. But it probably require breaking up and splitting off. Which means if push comes to shove. They could shove back.

I would suggest that if running away with Whisper/Fel is such an incredible winning strategy, that you take it to a major event after August and make your point there. We now know the risks of keeping ID's in the game and it looks like FFG agrees with those that think the risks out weigh the gains to be had by keeping them. The best way to prove your point is to employ it with success in a major event. You don't even have to win, just make the cut. If it is the best way to play, or even a tier 1 list and strategy, there will be imitators and FFG will see the error of their ways and reinstate ID's. If they think it's the solution to the problem you've shown us exists.

I'm just doing what I do best. Playing devils advocate.

I'm just doing what I do best. Playing devils advocate.

Fair enough. It's a time honored tradition.

I think most could agree the scenario you describe would be bad for X-wing. The only question up for debate is how likely it is to occur.

If it occurs as often as the issue we're dealing with now. Have we improved or just made different people mad to accommodate others?

If it occurs as often as the issue we're dealing with now. Have we improved or just made different people mad to accommodate others?

It is possible to fly defensively under the current rules, run away if you prefer, to preserve a point advantage. The theory that you can do this all game without losing a ship and win on the tie breaker seems unlikely at best. The idea that you can do it over the course of an entire regional and win it all seems nigh impossible. We have already witnessed the problems created by ID's and we didn't have long to wait in the regional season for it to happen. The thought that removing draws and consequently ID's will create the scenario you are putting forth seems so unlikely to occur that it is well worth the risk of removing ID's. In the unlikely event that the scenario you put forth comes to fruition, FFG can deal with t then. It won't be the first time they've had to change course.

In the unlikely event that the scenario you put forth comes to fruition, FFG can deal with it then.

I'd say your estimation of how likely that is to happen even in a single game is being generous. People have tried to play ultra defensive before and it's never really worked out well. The only way they win is by the other person refusing to engage them.

In a 2 ship list like what's being talked about if you make a single mistake you're done, so in theory you might win a game, that's the best you'd ever really be able to pull off, a single game.

And all of that is based on the idea that FFG makes init the deciding factor, and doesn't throw something in to address the issue being discussed.

Good. Draws are a loss for both players!