I'm glad FFG listened to the fan base (for better or worse, I don't have an opinion).

Removal of the draw is doable in a few ways but I like the idea of a draw being decided by half point on small ships aswel. If it's still tied after that it may have to be initiative.

I don't think it should go to the player with initiative, I think it should go to the player with the greater initiative bid (unless they have the same squad points). Since the player with the greater bid may have opted to give initiative to his opponent.

Glad we got that straightened out. Players can't be trusted to play the game so we need a rule that allows them to manipulate their standing on purpose... but it's only collusion if you didn't call the judge over first.

This part really made me chuckle:

In cases where players identify that a draw would be mutually beneficial, they can intentionally play this way and achieve a natural draw over the course of a game.

And everyone watching their game will know right away exactly what they are doing! Players who are choosing not to make attacks or go out of their way to arc-dodge the enemy are cheating by collusion just as much as the people who offer draws to improve their record and enter the top 8 without having really won enough games through competition to earn the spot.

I like where the guy from TC called out Paul in his article and comments, saying that you can just draw the first 2 rounds and almost assuredly have a spot in the top 8.

Good job, certainly a step in the right direction. Cannot wait to get rid of the draw state, and determining a win in every match!

However determining that win by initiative in a draw state? Is that the best way?

Say my opponent gets initiative at the start of the match, knowing that he will win if we end up in a draw, he may choose to slow play and/or move his ships as to escape as much engagement as possible - could even factor in at the time of his list building, bringing large ships with lots of health or slippery defensively built phantoms/interceptors - he might succeed in getting a draw, and win by initiative.

Will we see a race for initiative bid and slippery builds for this reason?

Maybe not, I guess I just find it more fair at the end of the match ending in a draw state, or in the case of an intentional draw, to rool a dice at that time point - perhaps even infront of the TO.

(kind of reminds of how loot was distributed in my the good old MMORPG days, good times).

I'm glad FFG listened to the fan base (for better or worse, I don't have an opinion).

Removal of the draw is doable in a few ways but I like the idea of a draw being decided by half point on small ships aswel. If it's still tied after that it may have to be initiative.

I don't think it should go to the player with initiative, I think it should go to the player with the greater initiative bid (unless they have the same squad points). Since the player with the greater bid may have opted to give initiative to his opponent.

I'm actually ok with the player whoo won the bid losing the game if they gave initiative away and come to a draw. That just adds more to think about when making initiative bids. If you give it away, you risk losing as a result. Though I still like totdal (percent) damage done as the first tie-breaker in a draw. So if one players done 10 damage out of 30 total health (33%) and the other player's done 10 damage out of 20 total health (50%), the player that did 10/20 wins.

Question: If draws are removed from the game, would this encourage more fortressing?

If the conditions for a draw are met and who wins comes down to initiative, why not just secure the initiative and fortress?

I'm not sure what to make of that announcement. On one hand they seem to be behind the draw which certain IS something that can happen naturally even if it is rare then on the other there is that mention of eliminating Draws.

As for "making their customers happy" one could point out the least biased poll taken on this INCREDIBLY hostile forum that showed 1/3 people though the IDs were fine the way they were. As mentioned previously the WHINERS WIN! may clearly be in effect here because there was such a mob mentality again the ID that it shouldn't surprise anyone that you didn't see much from the other side. Over 90% of the threads started were hostile to the ID which is not actually representative of all players.

I'm not sure what to make of that announcement. On one hand they seem to be behind the draw which certain IS something that can happen naturally even if it is rare then on the other there is that mention of eliminating Draws.

As for "making their customers happy" one could point out the least biased poll taken on this INCREDIBLY hostile forum that showed 1/3 people though the IDs were fine the way they were. As mentioned previously the WHINERS WIN! may clearly be in effect here because there was such a mob mentality again the ID that it shouldn't surprise anyone that you didn't see much from the other side. Over 90% of the threads started were hostile to the ID which is not actually representative of all players.

They also had both world champions and seems like most of the hosts of the podcasts come out saying they didn't like IDs and didn't think they should be in the game (though pheaver and several others sayd they'd use it as long as it's in the rules, others said they wouldn't use it even while it was legal, and a couple did say they didn't have an issue with them at all).

They also had both world champions and seems like most of the hosts of the podcasts come out saying they didn't like IDs and didn't think they should be in the game (though pheaver and several others sayd they'd use it as long as it's in the rules, others said they wouldn't use it even while it was legal, and a couple did say they didn't have an issue with them at all).

This could be although I wonder if some of the stance is because it was the popular thing to say especially for the media types. Peer pressure is a big factor to some as is trying to stay with what seem to be the popular group. The tyranny of the majority is a real thing. With ID you're looking at something that benefits a number of people although it may shut out a few.

So when someone misses out on the cut because their final game went to time with the same number of points destroyed per side and they just happened to not be the lucky random winner of initiative, we're going to get another 40+ page thread with wild speculation, outright falsehoods, and white knighting on behalf of people that have stated how little they care right?

So when someone misses out on the cut because their final game went to time with the same number of points destroyed per side and they just happened to not be the lucky random winner of initiative, we're going to get another 40+ page thread with wild speculation, outright falsehoods, and white knighting on behalf of people that have stated how little they care right?

Oh no, randomly losing/winning is fine. Unless of course you were doing it at the start of a game to determine who would concede to the other player so you and go for a break before going into the elimination rounds.

So when someone misses out on the cut because their final game went to time with the same number of points destroyed per side and they just happened to not be the lucky random winner of initiative, we're going to get another 40+ page thread with wild speculation, outright falsehoods, and white knighting on behalf of people that have stated how little they care right?

I think , if that is the direction they go, players will play more aggressively and take on more risk to try and avoid that situation.

Awesome news. Draws are not needed. Modified wins are not needed.

It feels like a win in an election campaign and I didn't have to float in a hover disc in the middle of a large auditorium.

nice article on why IDs are bad by Theorist at Covenant

http://teamcovenant.com/star-wars-x-wing/x-wings-intentional-draw/comment-page-1#comment-103334

Why don't they just make a series of tie breakers?

Primary Tie breaker is:

First MOV (All ships should have 1/2 cost at 1/2 damage also)

Then Bid

Then dice off.

A competitive event where someone can literally win with a "dice off" would be absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed. They should require a dance-off instead.

Finally! All those years of ballroom dancing will pay off in X-Wing!

So when someone misses out on the cut because their final game went to time with the same number of points destroyed per side and they just happened to not be the lucky random winner of initiative, we're going to get another 40+ page thread with wild speculation, outright falsehoods, and white knighting on behalf of people that have stated how little they care right?

So when someone misses out on the cut because their final game went to time with the same number of points destroyed per side and they just happened to not be the lucky random winner of initiative, we're going to get another 40+ page thread with wild speculation, outright falsehoods, and white knighting on behalf of people that have stated how little they care right?

You do know that there is a chance of this happening during every single elimination round even now, yes? Even the Worlds Final would be decided by initiative if the players ended on the same score.

Most Worlds level events don't have a time limit in the final match. If the two best players in the world according to a fair and extensive tournament structure, played with such equal skill, and killed each other with simultaneous fire in the World's Final we could finally have an argument about the game being about dice instead of skill...er...wait...that's not right...

If that very far fetched situation did occur I'd be just as fine with initiative, random dice roll, or awarding co-champions (might be the only way to finally get a 3rd or 4th world champion if Heaver doesn't retire).

nice article on why IDs are bad by Theorist at Covenant

http://teamcovenant.com/star-wars-x-wing/x-wings-intentional-draw/comment-page-1#comment-103334

I'm curious about his math and if it factors in modified wins.

Also,

Well run tournaments give incentives for those that start 0-3 to stay in. Door prizes, promo for every one that finishes..etc.

Also, also,

The "fly casual" people that claim they are just there to play and have fun should technically not even care what their record is or weather they have a chance at the cut. They're just there to have fun!

Why don't they just make a series of tie breakers?

Primary Tie breaker is:

First MOV (All ships should have 1/2 cost at 1/2 damage also)

Then Bid

Then dice off.

A competitive event where someone can literally win with a "dice off" would be absolutely ridiculous.

Agreed. They should require a dance-off instead.

Finally! All those years of ballroom dancing will pay off in X-Wing!

Oh no..the we are going to witness people taking their time to put on their dance-shoes, slow dance around, avoid the other dancer making it difficult to determine who is best, or perhaps even mirror the other dancer! Even worse the players may even secretly rehearse to ensure a dance-draw! The sky is falling

The "fly casual" people that claim they are just there to play and have fun should technically not even care what their record is or weather they have a chance at the cut. They're just there to have fun!

The two aren't mutually exclusive. It's possible to seek both a competitive and fun experience.

They also had both world champions and seems like most of the hosts of the podcasts come out saying they didn't like IDs and didn't think they should be in the game (though pheaver and several others sayd they'd use it as long as it's in the rules, others said they wouldn't use it even while it was legal, and a couple did say they didn't have an issue with them at all).

This could be although I wonder if some of the stance is because it was the popular thing to say especially for the media types. Peer pressure is a big factor to some as is trying to stay with what seem to be the popular group. The tyranny of the majority is a real thing. With ID you're looking at something that benefits a number of people although it may shut out a few.

That's reasonable speculation, but Major Juggler on Nova and we at Mynock (and other podcasts in passing) have been discussing these issues since well before the Intentional Draw rule was implemented. If anything, the Intentional Draw rule favors the more prominent competition players who frequently find themselves in undefeated or high match point scenarios.

The draw outcome is both unsatisfactory and unnecessary in X-Wing. I will go as far as to claim this as objective truth. I'm generally against kowtowing to the lowest common denominator as well, but sometimes strident public outcry and the intelligent course of action do actually intersect.

Specifically, I also favor:

-eliminating modified wins

-giving both players in a tie situation a match loss (incentivizes both players to fight for legitimate victory)

Also, if paul heaver was just saying be was opposed to intentional draws being a thing nust due to public opinion, he probably wouldnt have taken one...

Also, if paul heaver was just saying be was opposed to intentional draws being a thing nust due to public opinion, he probably wouldnt have taken one...

Yeah, I've been consistent in my views since well before the Roanoke Incident: I don't like draws, but I will use IDs if it secures me and my opponent a spot in the cut. I will continue to do so until they remove the rule in August.

They also had both world champions and seems like most of the hosts of the podcasts come out saying they didn't like IDs and didn't think they should be in the game (though pheaver and several others sayd they'd use it as long as it's in the rules, others said they wouldn't use it even while it was legal, and a couple did say they didn't have an issue with them at all).

This could be although I wonder if some of the stance is because it was the popular thing to say especially for the media types. Peer pressure is a big factor to some as is trying to stay with what seem to be the popular group. The tyranny of the majority is a real thing. With ID you're looking at something that benefits a number of people although it may shut out a few.

That's reasonable speculation, but Major Juggler on Nova and we at Mynock (and other podcasts in passing) have been discussing these issues since well before the Intentional Draw rule was implemented. If anything, the Intentional Draw rule favors the more prominent competition players who frequently find themselves in undefeated or high match point scenarios.

The draw outcome is both unsatisfactory and unnecessary in X-Wing. I will go as far as to claim this as objective truth. I'm generally against kowtowing to the lowest common denominator as well, but sometimes strident public outcry and the intelligent course of action do actually intersect.

Specifically, I also favor:

-eliminating modified wins

-giving both players in a tie situation a match loss (incentivizes both players to fight for legitimate victory)

Let's just do single-elimination tournaments! Screw MOV; Timed Rounds; ID's; Modified Wins/Losses and the likes and offer more byes. Round of 64; Round of 32; Sweet 16; Elite 8; Final 4; Championship Game. Like the NCAA!

I assume from the wording that they plan to get rid of draws entirely for xwing. I would guess that the winner in such a situation will be the player with initiative (like in elimination rounds) and it will be considered a modified win with 100 mov (the 100 mov for both players).