Spoiler Alert for Rebels S 1-2! Doh!

https://www.fantasyf...of-ahsoka-tano/

Very interesting read!

Well, imagine that - a way to stat out the Canon Heros (like some people are asking for) and yet managing to avoid the "But that's not how I would stat them!" crowd shouting at them. Actually, that's kind of clever.

Now, do the rest of the Main Roster!

Honestly, it would make more sense to me to start Ahsoka at The Clone Wars, not Rebels. That way we can see her grow through the series using the rules of character creation and experience.

My problem is that I can’t see how you could add a character like Ahsoka to most PC groups without completely overshadowing the PCs.

My problem is that I can’t see how you could add a character like Ahsoka to most PC groups without completely overshadowing the PCs.

Coming and going of a Master figure, like Ahsoka did in rebels. Somewhat elusive guiding force you sometimes go on adventure with. Rebellion, Force or otherwise.

Coming and going of a Master figure, like Ahsoka did in rebels. Somewhat elusive guiding force you sometimes go on adventure with. Rebellion, Force or otherwise.

It’s easy enough for the writers of Rebels to do that with Ahsoka, because they have complete control over the story and all the characters.

But as powerful as Ahsoka is, I don’t see how you could have her as an NPC with a group of player characters, and achieve anything remotely like the same effect.

Either she totally overshadows the PCs and then there’s no point in playing the game, or she’s totally ineffectual and there’s no point in having her in the group.

I definitely agree that careful encounter planning is needed, per party, padawns or knights. I am having the same conflict with the Master of the group, as per rules.

Coming and going of a Master figure, like Ahsoka did in rebels. Somewhat elusive guiding force you sometimes go on adventure with. Rebellion, Force or otherwise.

It’s easy enough for the writers of Rebels to do that with Ahsoka, because they have complete control over the story and all the characters.

But as powerful as Ahsoka is, I don’t see how you could have her as an NPC with a group of player characters, and achieve anything remotely like the same effect.

Either she totally overshadows the PCs and then there’s no point in playing the game, or she’s totally ineffectual and there’s no point in having her in the group.

Is your concern about her as a PC, or in any capacity NPC or otherwise?

Coming and going of a Master figure, like Ahsoka did in rebels. Somewhat elusive guiding force you sometimes go on adventure with. Rebellion, Force or otherwise.

It’s easy enough for the writers of Rebels to do that with Ahsoka, because they have complete control over the story and all the characters.

But as powerful as Ahsoka is, I don’t see how you could have her as an NPC with a group of player characters, and achieve anything remotely like the same effect.

Either she totally overshadows the PCs and then there’s no point in playing the game, or she’s totally ineffectual and there’s no point in having her in the group.

She isnt supposed to be 'in the group'. She is supposed to be a valued NPC ally and mentor not someone who goes on the adventures with the party.

To use an example from a different property, the is not the one who fights the cave troll she is the one who shouts 'You Shall Not Pass'

She should be a source of information, training, plot hooks and such. She should be a friend when they need one, a mentor when they need one.

A character like this can be the best part of GMing, when you see a party willingly leap into the gates of hell, not because of a quest, not because of a plot hook, but jest because they like the NPC and want to help them.

Coming and going of a Master figure, like Ahsoka did in rebels. Somewhat elusive guiding force you sometimes go on adventure with. Rebellion, Force or otherwise.

It’s easy enough for the writers of Rebels to do that with Ahsoka, because they have complete control over the story and all the characters.

But as powerful as Ahsoka is, I don’t see how you could have her as an NPC with a group of player characters, and achieve anything remotely like the same effect.

Either she totally overshadows the PCs and then there’s no point in playing the game, or she’s totally ineffectual and there’s no point in having her in the group.

"Master! Darth Fornicus has just landed and is coming for us! We need your strength!"

"Sorry, cant."

"What! Why?"

"The will of the Force compels me." (or "this destiny is for you and you alone" or "your fate lies along a different path from mine")

Well, imagine that - a way to stat out the Canon Heros (like some people are asking for) and yet managing to avoid the "But that's not how I would stat them!" crowd shouting at them. Actually, that's kind of clever.

Now, do the rest of the Main Roster!

No, I didn't get that from the article at all. It's about how to create a character in F&D based on a small time slice of Ahsoka's experience, focusing on a specific aspect of her abilities, not the total experience. The choices were Guardian, Seeker, or Shien Expert...you can't stat Ahsoka just by taking one of those and adding a measly 150XP. She's all three and then some.

Long ago, in a fantasy-setting game I ran, the players decided to strike a pact with the "old goddess of the demon realm", that they had been hired to stop from being restored from an artifact (they figured out on their own that they had been hired by a noble who was a secret cultist of a rival god, a worse deity from the perspective of most people, and animals, and plants, and spirits, and...) They chose sides in an ancient conflict instead of setting in motion the plot I had in mind... so I kinda ran with it.

Between the rivalry and the pact, the Old Goddess chose to act as their advisor and mentor as they fought to stop the schemes of the Prince of Consumption (or his darker aspect, the Lord of Putrescence) -- all the while, regaining her former strength. Of course, being an Old Goddess she was prone to thinking sideways and speaking strangely, and they had to be very careful to ask the right question.

(Bear with me, it does become relevant.)

At the culmination of that campaign, the cult managed to summon the great avatar of the Prince (the players had done enough to stop him from fully manifesting in his mighty divine power, so their efforts had not be for naught). The players learned that the Grand Army of Doom (or whatever I called it at the time) had risen from the vile places of the world, and was marching in its great legions on the city where the Prince had manifested. There was a pass that needed to be held against the Army, while someone fought the Prince.

The players started debating who was going take what was left of the Guard from the city and hold the pass, and who was going to fight the Prince, and the Old Goddess said...

"Go and fight the Prince, and take the Guard with you. I shall hold the pass."

The PCs were the ones to battle and defeat the Prince, and save the world, not their mega-NPC mentor that I had to work into my campaign. The maga-NPC wasn't there for the ultimate fight with the BBEG, but for a reason that made sense.

(The PCs did get a chance from a far-off vantage point to see her summon up her own unholy host from the demon realm... they finally seemed to realize just what they had been having tea and discussing philosophy with for all that time... )

We now return you to your regular Star Wars programming.

This was a weird article, as I mentioned elsewhere. They seem very careful not to stat out the movie characters. I guess this is FFGs way of doing that, without actually statting them.

As to GM NPCs, I'll side with those who don't want some God-mode Mary Sue overshadowing the PCs.

Players are used to NPCs being quest-givers, that's not an issue. Having an NPC who hangs out with them can be great if they fill in some vital task that no other PC wants to do, like a mechanic or co-pilot. In a supporting role, these kinds of NPCs can be fun to play without treading on PC toes.

But anything more than that gets controversial. By and large, players don't want the NPCs to do their work and really hate playing second-fiddle. In books and movies, Gandalf NPCs are fine, but they become problematical in an RPG when most players want agency.

As Desslok points out, it feels contrived when a powerful mentor can't help them out with major stuff. And they won't feel valued if they have more important concerns.

One way around it is to have the mentor as wise and knowledgeable, not a raging engine of destruction. In the original movies, Yoda was just wise and insightful, he doesn't use a lightsaber or throw Star Destroyers around. It feels like Elminster syndrome to me, that important NPCs can't just be like Ghandi or Churchill, they have to be awesome unstoppable superheroes.

This was a weird article, as I mentioned elsewhere. They seem very careful not to stat out the movie characters. I guess this is FFGs way of doing that, without actually statting them.

As to GM NPCs, I'll side with those who don't want some God-mode Mary Sue overshadowing the PCs.

Players are used to NPCs being quest-givers, that's not an issue. Having an NPC who hangs out with them can be great if they fill in some vital task that no other PC wants to do, like a mechanic or co-pilot. In a supporting role, these kinds of NPCs can be fun to play without treading on PC toes.

But anything more than that gets controversial. By and large, players don't want the NPCs to do their work and really hate playing second-fiddle. In books and movies, Gandalf NPCs are fine, but they become problematical in an RPG when most players want agency.

As Desslok points out, it feels contrived when a powerful mentor can't help them out with major stuff. And they won't feel valued if they have more important concerns.

One way around it is to have the mentor as wise and knowledgeable, not a raging engine of destruction. In the original movies, Yoda was just wise and insightful, he doesn't use a lightsaber or throw Star Destroyers around. It feels like Elminster syndrome to me, that important NPCs can't just be like Ghandi or Churchill, they have to be awesome unstoppable superheroes.

While I agree, for some reason, my past players have had a tendency to try to bring "badass" NPCs into the fold, even if they regret it later, leaving me to walk a tightrope.

Coming and going of a Master figure, like Ahsoka did in rebels. Somewhat elusive guiding force you sometimes go on adventure with. Rebellion, Force or otherwise.

It’s easy enough for the writers of Rebels to do that with Ahsoka, because they have complete control over the story and all the characters.

But as powerful as Ahsoka is, I don’t see how you could have her as an NPC with a group of player characters, and achieve anything remotely like the same effect.

Either she totally overshadows the PCs and then there’s no point in playing the game, or she’s totally ineffectual and there’s no point in having her in the group.

"Master! Darth Fornicus has just landed and is coming for us! We need your strength!"

"Sorry, cant."

"What! Why?"

"The will of the Force compels me." (or "this destiny is for you and you alone" or "your fate lies along a different path from mine")

No offence, but if you are doing it that way, you are doing it wrong. The GM controls when and if that sort of thing happens. The GM should be very specifically planning to keep that very situation from happening. If the players have managed to get into the situation where they feel the need to hide under the NPCs skirts, then they should be running into the NPCs home and finding Darth Fornicus and the NPC already in the fight, and the NPC losing. Probably sacrificing himself so the players can run away.

An NPC like Asokha isnt supposed to be an 'I win' button for the players. They should be just the opposite, where relying too much on the NPC causes the NPC to be destroyed by their reliance.

To be fair, an NPC like Ahsoka particularly had much more important matters on her plate then just watching over the Force sensitive PC's. She basically ran much of the rebellion block in this particular section, of which Hera's unit was just one cell of. It made sense that she wasn't there for the group all the time. However, if you make it so that the PC's are the only thing the master cares about, it can be a little of an issue. One way to cope with that is basically have it so that the master is a relatively distant person; the players mightn't be aware of it but this group of force sensitive isn't the group he's training.

Or perhaps the master actually is an inquisitor or Hand of the Emperor that is showing a more kindly face in their company; in the hopes that they can do one day that he could never do. Reminds me of Jade Empire where the Master literally teaches you everything to kill the Emperor, but leaves a critical flaw in your techique so that he could kill you after he has seized the seat of power. That he plans to use the PC's as weapons against his rivals and eventually throws them under the proverbal bus in order to exterminate them and raise himself to the position of one of the Emperor's hands, a legitimate position in which to challenge Vader himself. Then it makes sense: He wasn't around not because he had other things to do, but rather he was killing or capturing Force Sensitive like yourself as part of his job!

Another point is that the master doesn't actually have to be stronger then the PC's. This system is fairly flexible within a 300exp character can vary in power level dependant on their speciality. Perhaps this guy starts off somewhat stronger then the PC's, but his true calling has always been knowledge acquisition, thus would actually really struggle if confronted with an inquisitor.

One of the things I really, really liked about the Eberron campaign setting was their emphasis on binding their most powerful NPCs to a particular place. The leader of the Silver Flame Church was a young girl who was a 20th level Cleric... but only while she was in Flamekeep (i.e., the Vatican) and in the presence of the actual Silver Flame. Away from that place, she was just a normal cleric on par with the PCs (or less). Similarly, there was an ancient and wise Treant who was an equally powerful Druid, but was bound to his grove I the Eldeen forest. These NPCs could solve any problem that dared to approach their doorstep, giving the PCs a safe(-ish) place to recover, but were limited in their ability to effect things beyond their sphere.

I blithely stole this approach for a Star Wars game. I introduced an old and wise Jedi Master who survived Order 66 by dint of being left for dead after a bloody battle of the Clone Wars. They survived the battle, but were paralyzed from the waist down. Combine this with a couple decades of carbonite freezing (long story) and, suffice to say, their adventuring days were over. They were still capable of teaching the PCs in the ways of the Force and the ways of war, and woe be to the foes who dared to assault their home base, but they weren't going to be out and about with the PCs on their actual adventures

Which is a long way of saying that having powerful NPCs come and go constantly is a fine approach if you can make it work, but having them be location-dependent or immobile also works well. Yoda's stint as a goblin ninja in the prequels notwithstanding, this applies to him, too.

One of the things I really, really liked about the Eberron campaign setting was their emphasis on binding their most powerful NPCs to a particular place. The leader of the Silver Flame Church was a young girl who was a 20th level Cleric... but only while she was in Flamekeep (i.e., the

Yoda's stint as a goblin ninja in the prequels notwithstanding, this applies to him, too.

As I understand it, Keith Baker deliberately constructed Eberron to get away from the god-mode Mary Sue GMPC thing that had infested Forgotten Realms (of which Dribble and Munchminster were only the two most egregious examples). He wanted it to be a campaign that was meant to be played, where the PCs were the heroes, hence all the restrictions on the LoliPope. To a lesser degree, Paizo have always maintained that their 'iconics' are intended to be examples of pre-generated player-characters, not the official heroes of the setting. Not sure how much I believe that, but that's the party line... although Pathfinder doesn't apparently have a 'canon' and the outcomes of each adventure path are supposedly decided by each table.

Ninja Yoda was probably the moment I decided I actually hated the pre-sequels. Lucas seemed to have lost faith in the things he created. It wasn't enough for Yoda to be a wise mentor, he had to be badass, just like the Force had to be Space Germs instead of an 'energy field created by all living things, that surrounds us and penetrates us and binds the galaxy together'.

I guess someone like Maz Kanata would work in this capacity, because she's wise and insightful and well-connected, without being a personal badass. (Not until the next movie anyway when she goes all Force Unleashed on us...)

There can certainly be a fine line to walk. Our attempt at the late-90's Star Trek RPG lasted all of one session, because the rules specifically called for the ship's Captain to be an NPC. The stated goal was to prevent any ego/power trips with a player as Captain. But it resulted in a session of us roleplaying following the GM's orders.

I've seen it successfully done, though. Our old SWRPG campaign had, by design, a rotation of several of us performing GM duties, because we all wanted to play, not just GM. Quite often, our PC's served as NPC's when we GM'ed (without getting XP for our unfair advantage of knowing what was coming). More often than not, they served as mere support. On a few occasions, they were off to the side dealing with what amounted to their own little cut scene. Case in point: A player who had rarely been able to attend sessions moved. His character was written out, but the backstory he'd created allowed me, as the next session's GM, to examine this "long lost" character and bring him back...as an enemy. The Empire had played upon his drug addiction and gotten the location of our base from him...and he was also found to be Force sensitive and given a crash course in the dark side. He led the Empire to our base and, while the PC's opted to prioritize fighting off the stormtroopers and evacuating the base, my Young Jedi was off to the side, engaging our former teammate. I structured it in such a way that, if they opted to assist me, their contribution had an impact; if they didn't, it was a draw, with me owning it out alive and him doing the same, now set up as a potential recurring nemesis.

I've also seen GMs go too far the other way, so that all the friendly NPCs are creampuffs who stand no chance of defending themselves against the antagonists, and would be wiped out without the PCs... to the point that the players have to feel paranoid about getting any NPC involved in anything, even if that NPC was specifically intended to be an "action asset" and cost "character points" as a follower.

Things like "I could send the ex-covert agent who works for me out to trail an NPC to see where he goes, while I'm confronting a different antagonist, but I know for a fact that he'll get caught and possibly messed up, so why bother?"

You end up feeling like Mr Incredible: