Given the number of Millenium Falcons I've killed, I think turrets are just fine as they are.

There is no Jouster. No ship that sees consistent play is just a jouster. Jousting was wave 1-2 mentality... we had to joust because the game was made to do that at the time; now ships can't just line up and fire and kturn their way to success. They must do something else.

And no. Turrets need no additional benefits. Terrible idea.

Additional benefits? They lose that entire range 1 bonus die croissant in exchange for a bonus die at range 2.

Since so many people seem annoyed by this thread I'm first going to apologize by posting and continuing it. But this is something I've given a lot of thought to over the couple of years I've been playing this game. I'd imagine this idea has probably been suggested before, but I think it'd be a simple fix to make turrets a little less powerful but not nerf them into oblivion. What if turret ships were limited to the range one bonus only in the forward firing arc? It would give turret ships a good reason to try to keep other ships in arc and not just float nebulously across the field with no effort made to maneuvers. YT-1300s and Decimators would still have powerful 360 degree three dice attacks but could only get a four dice attack by actively maneuvering to keep ships in arc. Jumpmasters would also have a very strong reason to keep ships in arc since three dice is considerably better than two. YT-2400s wouldn't be affected with the Outrider title due to secondary weapons but otherwise would fall into the same boat with the Jumpmasters. I realize this is very similar to the OP's idea but I think extending it to range two is just silly and a bad idea.

Ok seriously are you all guys jesting or just blind/dumb/whatfuginever? One troll that constantly cries "turrets op" starts zillionth topic about changing something that is balanced as hell in current meta and you all fall for it.

When is the last fuggin time you saw Falcon in winners spot? Dash? Decimator? Shall i continue? Autothrusted aces are MORE THAN ENOUGH reason to keep something in arc nowadays and yet i still read a pile of "nerfs that are not nerfs it theory" BS. Not to mention scoring changes that pushed big ships even back even more (cause where are those PWTs?).

Really you wanna nerf one of the gameplay styles into oblivion just cause one guy demands it once a week?

<sigh>

Dash is still doing quite alright, but he's not exactly a PWT

unless you boba his HLC, which is ******* hilarious

anyway, PWTs are a sh*tty gameplay mechanic but we've finally (after 2 waves) gotten enough to reliably curbstomp them out of the game for the betterment of all

it is only slightly annoying that JM5k PWTs will basically auto-shred most generics, but they're torpboats first and pwts as a DISTANT second.

my opinion about the mechanic has always been independent of power, rather just lamenting how terribly lazy they are from a game design perspective. That said, FFG has done the best it could to sweep them under the rug by introducing weaker turrets that have to rely on other, actually maneuver dependent abilities in order to stay relevant. Until an actual re-work comes around, this is the perfect way to deal with PWTs and we shouldn't have to touch them again. Wimpy PWTs have actually given me some of the most enjoyment ever in this game, and I wouldn't dream of changing them atm

(and, hopefully, not have anymore 3 dice PWTs released into the game unless we're talking Dengar or Oicuun)

There is no Jouster. No ship that sees consistent play is just a jouster. Jousting was wave 1-2 mentality... we had to joust because the game was made to do that at the time; now ships can't just line up and fire and kturn their way to success. They must do something else.

And no. Turrets need no additional benefits. Terrible idea.

this is why x wings suck in the game "x wing." they dont do anything else but move, k turn, and shoot and even the b wing has barrel roll (and is a better jouster too)

the z 95 comes with enough bodies to block like crazy but the x wing is a sad and lonely ship, left behind a long long time ago in a meta far far away

Imperial Aces are with Lambda/bomber Emperor are simply the best build in the game.

Whats the issue again? Oh right there is none with turrets.

Move along doggies ... move along...

Imperial Aces are with Lambda/bomber Emperor are simply the best build in the game.

Whats the issue again? Oh right there is none with turrets.

Move along doggies ... move along...

Palp Aces is the best build in the game. You're **** right about that.

I can hate more than one thing at once. Fat Turrets may have been curbstomped out of the meta but when they do show up they still suck all the fun out of the game.

I created this thread because even with Autothrusters, fat turret players don't go out of their way to get things in arc. This would buff that style of play while nerfing the lazy "orbit the map with 1 banks continually" style of non-play. It would actively reward turret players for getting things in arc.

... bomber Emperor

You do realise that FFG went out of their way to make that impossible, yes?

You created this thread to help make turret users instead try to get things into arc. But yet it just gives an extra advantage to turrets if they do manage to outfly their opponent...something that turrets really do not need.

I'm sorry to say but any advantage that turrets already have is not needing a boost, even if it does try to get them to use the main arc.

You created this thread to help make turret users instead try to get things into arc. But yet it just gives an extra advantage to turrets if they do manage to outfly their opponent...something that turrets really do not need.

I'm sorry to say but any advantage that turrets already have is not needing a boost, even if it does try to get them to use the main arc.

It is not a buff. Out of arc at range 1 they would not get a bonus attack die. Genuinely surprised everyone thinks me of all people want to buff turrets lol.

I always sort of liked the "no extra die out of arc at range 1" suggestion, but I felt it would hurt 2 dice turrets too much. If they give up their out of arc range 1 bonus die for an in arc bonus die out to range 2, it would be a nice way to encourage getting things in arc. It would reward good flying with them instead of just relentlessly doing one banks. It wouldn't be a straight nerf to them, it would be a nuanced one that could potentially even out or even benefit good players that used them. All of a sudden a K-Turn would occasionally be useful with the Falcon.

Did I not make the thread title clear enough?

Giving them extra dice at range 1 in arc is still a buff! how is giving them something extra, even if they work hard for it "not a buff". Extra stuff is literally a "buff".

I have read the title well enough, and I understand what you are saying erfectly well. But you are proposing a boost to their attack power. any type of boost or addition to them or whatever else you give an addition to is a buff.

It doesnt matter if you require said model or player to work for the increase, such as making them try to get people into arc at range one.

Or if it was a jouster (on another thread) a boost to their PS due to being a jouster, or giving an extra damage to bombs if the fighter that laid the bomb was called "bomber" or took a card for it, or whatever other idea people come up with.

Say you give an extra die to fighters that are able to go directly behind their opponent, and at range one, (kind of like outmanuever) but specifically tohse 2 requirements and if said fighter was behind an enemy if got not just 1 extra die for range 1 but a 2nd...that is a buff! Yes you outfew your opponent, but it is still a "Buff".

Any increase is a "buff".

I can hate more than one thing at once. Fat Turrets may have been curbstomped out of the meta but when they do show up they still suck all the fun out of the game.

How? Just explain me how they suck all the fun...? The still need to dodge arcs if possible, the are big juicy targets for you, the still roll dice, they still demand range control, they still can be blocked to kill half of their potential, they still can be ioned, they still can be ordnanced to death nowadays. They still require serious skills to be played CORRECTLY.

They only got bigger coverage. How is that different from superb Soontir player that keeps you in arc all the time?

Tip: its not.

So how on earth they suck all the fun out???

If the fat turret dont keep things in arc aces gonna laught at them so hard. Dash is the exception but he got other drawbacks.

The lazy 1 banks style of play is already so unviable that it makes me laugh you still even mention it. You still play wave 3 or what? Falcon or deci not gonna last 5 turns it flewn that way and even dash is fielden with kanan nowadays to stay away from constant-1-bank. Fat turret player have to think ahead even more. Cause he just got 1 big ship to play. And needs to keep it alive.

So please, please stop this "no one cares about maneuvers with big turrets" BS, cause its long gone with wave 2 and 3.

What is up with hate for big turret ships? I started to play this game about two months ago but from my experience large ships with 360' line of sights are still vulnerable to good maneouvring (autothrusters, blocking, range, Dash with HLC).

I like it, but I wouldn't give the die at range 2. The extra range die at range 1 should only ever apply in arc for all ships (unless an upgrade like Dorsal Turret or pilot ability like Kavil says otherwise).

So just delete the current out of arc range 1 bonus for PWTs and you're there.

RAC Decimator flown well moves like a nimble dancer, there's not lack of skill in the flying of that thing.

You created this thread to help make turret users instead try to get things into arc. But yet it just gives an extra advantage to turrets if they do manage to outfly their opponent...something that turrets really do not need.

I'm sorry to say but any advantage that turrets already have is not needing a boost, even if it does try to get them to use the main arc.

It is not a buff. Out of arc at range 1 they would not get a bonus attack die. Genuinely surprised everyone thinks me of all people want to buff turrets lol.

I always sort of liked the "no extra die out of arc at range 1" suggestion, but I felt it would hurt 2 dice turrets too much. If they give up their out of arc range 1 bonus die for an in arc bonus die out to range 2, it would be a nice way to encourage getting things in arc. It would reward good flying with them instead of just relentlessly doing one banks. It wouldn't be a straight nerf to them, it would be a nuanced one that could potentially even out or even benefit good players that used them. All of a sudden a K-Turn would occasionally be useful with the Falcon.

Did I not make the thread title clear enough?

No, you didn't, but that wouldn't matter if you had used the first post to explain it clearly. I read the whole thread with the same opinion as knavelad until the penny dropped. I realise now that you're talking about the bonus die for shooting at range 1 and changing when primary turrets benefit from it.

Back when turrets were an issue I was an advocate for them requiring a TL to fire out of arc. Now because of Palp Aces being the new hotness, they actually do need to fly with a ship in Arc (and range 2) in hopes of getting past Autothrusters. So giving them an extra dice would be awesome to help my Falcon land more shots but it with change my flying one bit.