The First Order A relatively small in comparison and young group that idolize the fallen Empire, loyalists, that hide out in the Unknown Regions to plot against the new Republic.

They want to restore the order that once was the rule of the Empire. Hey, does that mean that the First Order are the rebels now?...

But scenes were cut, so we do not see Leia and the Resistance trying to convince the Rpublic that the Order is real and a real threat to the Republic and the Galaxy, and get their support.

Was it a mistake to leave out this information, or did they know that the regular movie watcher wouldn`t care and that Star Wars fans would read up on it and find it out or be exighted about an extended version?

Did they want us guessing and talking about this to keep the buzz going or did thet think they were clear enough on what the First Order is and that it actually came across as such?

If so, how? The angry and uncontrolled leaders and members of the Order? The need to show off with big ships and toys, even a Empire-fanboy copy of the Deathstar? What?

All in all I like the twist of the New Order, the bad guys, being the once who are kind of hiding and rebelling now, but does it come across good enough?

I`ll give this young terrorist group one thing, they discovered sub-hyperspace and made a hyperlight weapon to shoot across it with. That`s nice.

But scenes were cut, so we do not see Leia and the Resistance trying to convince the Rpublic that the Order is real and a real threat to the Republic and the Galaxy, and get their support.

Was it a mistake to leave out this information, or did they know that the regular movie watcher wouldn`t care and that Star Wars fans would read up on it and find it out or be exighted about an extended version?

I will comment only this part.

In Episode IV we learn as the movie goes that:

- There is the evil Empire

- The Empire is rule by the Emperor

- Before the Empire was the Republic

- There was a Senate

- There were JK who were guardians of peace bla bla

- We learn that there are different opinions inside the Empire.

All the info the viewers learn as the movie progress. We are informed about the galaxy and we understand what is happening. Same goes for Ep I.

What do we learn in Ep VII? Almost nothing. Everything pops out from the box just like that. And then the Coruscant is destroyed and nobody cares. I really miss GL. He could put Ewoks or Jar Jar, but at least he explained what is happening in the background.

But scenes were cut, so we do not see Leia and the Resistance trying to convince the Rpublic that the Order is real and a real threat to the Republic and the Galaxy, and get their support.

Was it a mistake to leave out this information, or did they know that the regular movie watcher wouldn`t care and that Star Wars fans would read up on it and find it out or be exighted about an extended version?

I will comment only this part.

In Episode IV we learn as the movie goes that:

- There is the evil Empire

- The Empire is rule by the Emperor

- Before the Empire was the Republic

- There was a Senate

- There were JK who were guardians of peace bla bla

- We learn that there are different opinions inside the Empire.

All the info the viewers learn as the movie progress. We are informed about the galaxy and we understand what is happening. Same goes for Ep I.

What do we learn in Ep VII? Almost nothing. Everything pops out from the box just like that. And then the Coruscant is destroyed and nobody cares. I really miss GL. He could put Ewoks or Jar Jar, but at least he explained what is happening in the background.

A lot has already been established from earlier movies though, but a lot was a mystery, yea. GL is a great ideas man, but he only really directed the PT. Episode IV was really a team effort. Awesome worldbuilder and ideas man though, but he can`t really write or direct characters that are relatable and you want to care about, at least not when he works alone. Still, got to express I am a big fan of what he has made and his massive imagination and worlbuilding skills.

Back to TFA. Too vague backdrop? ... Great characters and dialogue though.

The only think I find clear about the 1st Order's portrayal is that they are young zealots. Most of the leadership we see are very young. So if the original Empire were the Nazis, the 1st Order are the SS.

In Episode IV we learn as the movie goes that:

- There is the evil Empire

- The Empire is rule by the Emperor

- Before the Empire was the Republic

- There was a Senate

- There were JK who were guardians of peace bla bla

- We learn that there are different opinions inside the Empire.

All the info the viewers learn as the movie progress. We are informed about the galaxy and we understand what is happening. Same goes for Ep I.

What do we learn in Ep VII? Almost nothing. Everything pops out from the box just like that. And then the Coruscant is destroyed and nobody cares. I really miss GL. He could put Ewoks or Jar Jar, but at least he explained what is happening in the background.

Well... let's see. Following this same line of thought, in Episode VII we learn as the movie goes that:

• The First Order exists.
• It is ruled by a mysterious alien known as the Supreme Leader.
• The Republic has been reestablished.
• There is a Resistance group fighting against the oncoming storm of the First Order.
• The Jedi - including Luke Skywalker - are considered a myth.
• The Resistance doesn't have the full support of the Republic.
• There are differences of opinions in the First Order's leadership. (General Hux and Kylo Ren anyone?)

None of these were exposed with any more of a Jack-in-the-Box attitude than they were in Episode IV. I agree that the destruction of the Hosnian system was handled without enough tension; the viewers had no emotional connection with the Republic before the First Order blew away its seat of power. But other than that, I think you're being more nostalgic about your memories of Episode IV and not giving VII, which used a very similar storytelling style, a fair shake.

I think Ep. VII was more about introducing the new characters than the state of the galaxy. I think we will see more exposition in the next two movies. In that regard the movie was a success for me as I really enjoyed the characters both new and old. And I find the First order is more like the militarized Aryan Nation. Wannabe nazis intent on proving they are the master race.

My impression is that the First Order went a bit too far and the next movie might actually reveal that if they want to rectify the problems JJ's love for the Mystery Box left behind!

First off the Before the Awakening suggested the Imperial Remaints had some pull over the New Republic Senate after all why would Leia be afraid for her life if the Resistance had the unofficial support of the New Republic?

I think the First Order screwed up but it requires a decent writer to pull this off and I don't know if Disney has anyone that capable given someone really should have reined in JJ and provided some information instead of almost nothing that so far hasn't changed with the current batch of comic and books we have so far seen released.

Any takers?

I like the idea we learn in the next movie that Snoke was killed because of this mess, but I really hope we see Kylo being trained by Ezra Bridger and reveal he's Rey's father since they have this habit of copying the OT and that is actually quite a good idea to follow!

Oh in answer to the question in the Thread header... YES!

I think Ep. VII was more about introducing the new characters than the state of the galaxy. I think we will see more exposition in the next two movies. In that regard the movie was a success for me as I really enjoyed the characters both new and old. And I find the First order is more like the militarized Aryan Nation. Wannabe nazis intent on proving they are the master race.

Yes! That is exactly how I see it. If the Empire were Nazy Germany, the First Order are young neo-nazy militia, not as large by far with newer, fancier toys. And old grandpa Snoke...

And yes, TFA was all about the characters. The character interaction and banter was just Magic in episode VII!

Discussion of the First Order in their natural habitat.

I really miss GL. He could put Ewoks or Jar Jar, but at least he explained what is happening in the background.

Eeeh... He might have explained things in Ep. IV... But he explained pretty much nothing in the prequels, so whatever "skills" he had, he lost them with age.

(Oh and as someone pointed out, just as much explanation is given in Ep. VII, so you're just using rose-tinted glasses)

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Was it a mistake to leave out this information

If E1-3 was too heavy on the politics, then E7 went the entirely other way and was way WAAAAAY too light on the politics. You can make some guesses, but the political landscape was a total mess with the new one, with no real clear idea what the hell was doing what to who.

Mind you, not that I should expect anything less from JJ "Mr Answers" Abrams.

So yes, this information should have been included. Hell ANY information about the political landscape should have been included.

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Huge galaxy... The unknown Regions....

My big Question is...

Where did the get their funding?

Honestly, building a planet sized superweapon, fully crewed with thousands, if not tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions of people, takes some serious moula. Let alone training kids from childhood to be supersoldiers, or building Star Destroyer class vessels. I thought the Repulbic and the emergent Empire in 1-6 were near bankruptcy. Who is bankrolling all this?

I look forward to Rogue One for something a bit more reasonable.

Where did they get the funding?

Some ideas:

1. Imperial Fleet that ran off took necessary equipment to be self sufficient, droids, food (crops, etc) and equipment to build (mining and manufacturing). With the technology in Star Wars, it is possible to be self sufficient.

2. Not everyone hated the Empire. Private citizens, corporations could "donate" or funnel credits to them. Much like many corrupt companies and poloticians, this could be done "perfrectly legal" to quote Nute Gunray.

3. The Empire, much like the legends fiction, built up

A planet as a defensible retreat location. The Empire wiped the location and retreated to a fully stocked and operational outpost, perhaps the weapon was already being worked on by the Empire, it was just finished by the First Order.

4. This episode of Star Wars (VII) was not for the old fans, but to gain new ones because the old fans with offspring (like myself) will try to indoctrinate them into loving Star Wars, so did your kids love it? Yes? Good, Star Wars is theirs now. Buy all the merchandise for them because they "love" Star Wars. Good job. Don't have kids? Should have spent less time watching Star Wars, discussing it on forums online, and socialized with actual people rather than be the perpetuation of a stereotype. Star Wars is no longer for you, it is now for the new generation of young fans that are tge same age as you were when you saw the films for the first time, and they aren't as jaded about everything and just think spaceships and laser swords are cool, also that BB-8 is cute. *

*point 4 is MOSTLY in jest.

The only think I find clear about the 1st Order's portrayal is that they are young zealots. Most of the leadership we see are very young. So if the original Empire were the Nazis, the 1st Order are the SS.

I would almost compare the first order more closely to the hilter youth if they had time to mature. These young men seem to be trained from youth to meet the expectations of the new order, learned all the mistakes of the empire and streamlined them greatly into a machine of conquest. It's terrifying to imagine what such individuals could accomplish with that upbringing..

4. This episode of Star Wars (VII) was not for the old fans, but to gain new ones because the old fans with offspring (like myself) will try to indoctrinate them into loving Star Wars, so did your kids love it? Yes? Good, Star Wars is theirs now. Buy all the merchandise for them because they "love" Star Wars. Good job. Don't have kids? Should have spent less time watching Star Wars, discussing it on forums online, and socialized with actual people rather than be the perpetuation of a stereotype. Star Wars is no longer for you, it is now for the new generation of young fans that are tge same age as you were when you saw the films for the first time, and they aren't as jaded about everything and just think spaceships and laser swords are cool, also that BB-8 is cute. *

*point 4 is MOSTLY in jest.

Somehow I feel remembered of "Barney Stinsons Ewoke Theory"...

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Hey, the empire was able to hide the building of two of those "moon-size" Death Stars (First one was already finished when Leia took of with the plans and the emperor stated that he let slip the information about "this completly functional spacestation" on purpose as a bait to the alliance in the case of the second)

None of these were exposed with any more of a Jack-in-the-Box attitude than they were in Episode IV. I agree that the destruction of the Hosnian system was handled without enough tension; the viewers had no emotional connection with the Republic before the First Order blew away its seat of power. But other than that, I think you're being more nostalgic about your memories of Episode IV and not giving VII, which used a very similar storytelling style, a fair shake.

Ok I also agree it was just a "look theres the new senate... oh there it was...hmmm ok... what´s next on the agenda?" type of scene.

but let´s be honest... not much differents of what happens to Alderaan in Ep. IV: Tarkin: "This is your Homeworld, Alderaan, your highness" Leia "no you you can´t we are peacefull without any weapons" [...] "we are on Dantooin..." Tarkin: "Perfect, now proceed to demonstrate the power of the ultimate weapon" Alderraan: BUMM

or the senate: Leia "The Senate will hear about this!" a little while later Tarkin: "Don´t worry about the senate! The Emperor just disbanded it. This relic of the old is no more!"

(at this point sorry for possible mistakes in the free quote only saw the film a trillion time in german... never in english so i had to translate with a "small" portion of literallicaly freedom ^^)

In other words it was just the same, only this time we could get a glimpse of the glaring faces of all these doomed people in the Hosnian-System and some how the explosion of the planets system was able to be seen in realtime on a planet in a system far far away... but ok I guess thats just another way to let one of the heroes find out that something is wrong (since obi wan is totaly absence to bring on his "millions cried out in fear"-Speech.) even so I don´t like this scintific-hole (yeah I know Lightsabers also shouldn´t be able to exist since the lightblade would have no end... but at least they look cool ^^)

My big Question is...

Where did the get their funding?

Snoke.

And rich coreworlds brats playing Empire...

Where do you think all the Empire`s wealth went? The Panama System?

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Unfortunately that's what you get when you build a democracy that is:

a) tired of war

b) populated by members who are sympathetic to their old Imperial roots

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Unfortunately that's what you get when you build a democracy that is:

a) tired of war

b) populated by members who are sympathetic to their old Imperial roots

c) don`t believe they exist, much less can be strong enough to take on the new Republic.... Did I mention HUGE galaxy and unknown regions?

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Unfortunately that's what you get when you build a democracy that is:

a) tired of war

b) populated by members who are sympathetic to their old Imperial roots

c) don`t believe they exist, much less can be strong enough to take on the new Republic.... Did I mention HUGE galaxy and unknown regions?

The Republic knew about the First Order. Check out the canon entry on Wookiepedia.

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Unfortunately that's what you get when you build a democracy that is:

a) tired of war

b) populated by members who are sympathetic to their old Imperial roots

c) don`t believe they exist, much less can be strong enough to take on the new Republic.... Did I mention HUGE galaxy and unknown regions?

The Republic knew about the First Order. Check out the canon entry on Wookiepedia.

Did they believe they existed in the numbers and size and threat level they were?

You wouldn't think it would be hard to convince the Republic that the group with a planet-sized superweapon just might be a threat... And don't even try to tell me they kept that thing hidden.

Unfortunately that's what you get when you build a democracy that is:

a) tired of war

b) populated by members who are sympathetic to their old Imperial roots

c) don`t believe they exist, much less can be strong enough to take on the new Republic.... Did I mention HUGE galaxy and unknown regions?

The Republic knew about the First Order. Check out the canon entry on Wookiepedia.

Did they believe they existed in the numbers and size and threat level they were?

Some did, but most of that group founded the Resistance. The rest had to argue it in the Senate against those who didn't or who were bought off.

Yeah, for the most part the New Republic was aware of the First Order's existence, but didn't see them as being even remotely close to being a threat as they were lacking (or refused to accept) evidence that the First Order was as well-armed and equipped as they were, and were flaunting the peace treaty made after the Battle of Jakku that lead to heavy disarmament by the Empire. Plus, most of the First Order's operating territory is in the Unknown Regions, giving them plenty of space to hide in. It was quite likely a bait and switch trick, with enough of an Imperial presence going along with the treaty and disarming, while vast amount of resources were funneled into the Unknown Regions so that they could rebuild and one day strike back.

And, there's enough of a contingent within the Republic Senate that see's Leia's warnings about the First Order as her just a lot of saber rattling, and really don't want to entertain the idea of another major war when it's barely been a generation since the GCW, to say nothing of less than a century since the Clone Wars. As well as potential First Order/Imperial sympathizers that would prefer to see the Republic stay docile and thus be ripe for eventual conquest.

The Republic's sentiment was that the 1st Order was 'JV' and 'contained', so they under-funded and under-supported a covert effort........worked out well for them.....