We hear Obi Wan speak specifically to Rey in her Force dream sequence as well. There's more going on than just Luke's saber.

If Luke is Rey's father, why would it be odd that she'd hear the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi, the mentor of both her father and her grandfather?

2. Kylo may know her, I like the idea she was youngling he didn't have the guts to off and he took her when he wiped them.

He and the Knights of Ren slew all the other Jedi-in-training. Are we going to assume then that she was the only young one there? Or might it not make more sense that he didn't have the guts to kill his own beloved cousin, so he took her to Jakku and wiped her memory instead?

We hear Obi Wan speak specifically to Rey in her Force dream sequence as well. There's more going on than just Luke's saber.

If Luke is Rey's father, why would it be odd that she'd hear the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi, the mentor of both her father and her grandfather?

Plus there's the fact that Obi-Wan had become a Force spirit, so his voice may simply be him giving Rey a nudge in awakening her Force abilities, much as his voice nudged Luke to trust his feelings in ANH.

WAIT! I have it figured out...

Rey is the hidden/forgotten love child of Maz Kanata and Chewie.

"I *like* that wookie..."

It's all so clear to me now... it's all there in the movie. They just aren't showing her nightly shaving ritual, because: kids.

Glad that's put to rest. I feel better now.

As long as Ep VIII doesn't start on an ice planet and finishes with a main character being 'frozen in carbonite' then I'll go see it**.... if only to find out Rey's heritage

**otherwise, I'll wait for the DVD....... in the bargain bin

2. Kylo may know her, I like the idea she was youngling he didn't have the guts to off and he took her when he wiped them.

He and the Knights of Ren slew all the other Jedi-in-training. Are we going to assume then that she was the only young one there? Or might it not make more sense that he didn't have the guts to kill his own beloved cousin, so he took her to Jakku and wiped her memory instead?

I can't argue with speculation, all I am saying is there is no actual evidence of anything that people are pretending like there is. People are confusing speculation and conjecture with evidence and fact imo.

We hear Obi Wan speak specifically to Rey in her Force dream sequence as well. There's more going on than just Luke's saber.

If Luke is Rey's father, why would it be odd that she'd hear the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi, the mentor of both her father and her grandfather?

Plus there's the fact that Obi-Wan had become a Force spirit, so his voice may simply be him giving Rey a nudge in awakening her Force abilities, much as his voice nudged Luke to trust his feelings in ANH.

Or, since Obi Wan technically had the lightsaber longer than the 2 Skywalker knuckleheads combined, perhaps he has more influence on it.

We hear Obi Wan speak specifically to Rey in her Force dream sequence as well. There's more going on than just Luke's saber.

If Luke is Rey's father, why would it be odd that she'd hear the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi, the mentor of both her father and her grandfather?

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Bah.

The problem with that sort of "never waste time" / "All Hail Chekhov's Gun" approach is that they end up telegraphing their moves and have to walk a tightrope to not end up looking contrived.

For example, it's so hard for me to watch most television mysteries now because I've reached the point where I can guess the outcome over half the time.

The alternative is a combination of random plot details that go nowhere and outright deus ex machinae, which I somehow doubt you would prefer.

Like, at some point you just have to recognize that maybe it isn't the writers' fault that you watch too much $#%@ing tv. :V

Bah.

The problem with that sort of "never waste time" / "All Hail Chekhov's Gun" approach is that they end up telegraphing their moves and have to walk a tightrope to not end up looking contrived.

For example, it's so hard for me to watch most television mysteries now because I've reached the point where I can guess the outcome over half the time.

The alternative is a combination of random plot details that go nowhere and outright deus ex machinae, which I somehow doubt you would prefer.

Like, at some point you just have to recognize that maybe it isn't the writers' fault that you watch too much $#%@ing tv. :V

Or they could stop hitting the same tired tropes and move beyond "paint by numbers" writing...

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Nobody said it wasn't speculation. It's just weird to see people argue against the evidence that makes the speculation more legitimate, all because they'd just not rather see the story written that way.

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Nobody said it wasn't speculation. It's just weird to see people argue against the evidence that makes the speculation more legitimate, all because they'd just not rather see the story written that way.

Or rather, they don't see "evidence" in random unrelated crap and take every second of what's shown on screen as another clue to a deeper mystery that doesn't actually exist.

Bah.

The problem with that sort of "never waste time" / "All Hail Chekhov's Gun" approach is that they end up telegraphing their moves and have to walk a tightrope to not end up looking contrived.

For example, it's so hard for me to watch most television mysteries now because I've reached the point where I can guess the outcome over half the time.

The alternative is a combination of random plot details that go nowhere and outright deus ex machinae, which I somehow doubt you would prefer.

Like, at some point you just have to recognize that maybe it isn't the writers' fault that you watch too much $#%@ing tv. :V

Or they could stop hitting the same tired tropes and move beyond "paint by numbers" writing...

Who is "they"? What tired tropes? What "paint by numbers" writing?

You have this bad habit of speaking about nebulous boogeymen and their offenses rather than providing concrete positions that can actually be debated. It makes one wonder if you're actually interested in a discussion, or if you'd prefer to whinge and stroke your ego over how you're so much smarter than "them".

Or rather, they don't see "evidence" in random unrelated crap and take every second of what's shown on screen as another clue to a deeper mystery that doesn't actually exist.

Man, you must hate literary analysis and criticism. :V

And back on the ignore list you go. See you in 30 days.

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Nobody said it wasn't speculation. It's just weird to see people argue against the evidence that makes the speculation more legitimate, all because they'd just not rather see the story written that way.

Or rather, they don't see "evidence" in random unrelated crap and take every second of what's shown on screen as another clue to a deeper mystery that doesn't actually exist.

Or they are engaging in wishful thinking. After all, if all the "evidence" is "random unrelated crap", then every Star Wars movie has just become garbage, because all of it is random unrelated crap by that standard.

And back on the ignore list you go. See you in 30 days.

Are you sure you'll last that long? We both know you can't resist me, senpai.

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Nobody said it wasn't speculation. It's just weird to see people argue against the evidence that makes the speculation more legitimate, all because they'd just not rather see the story written that way.

Or rather, they don't see "evidence" in random unrelated crap and take every second of what's shown on screen as another clue to a deeper mystery that doesn't actually exist.

Or they are engaging in wishful thinking. After all, if all the "evidence" is "random unrelated crap", then every Star Wars movie has just become garbage, because all of it is random unrelated crap by that standard.

The only wishful thinking is seeing "evidence" for every stupid pet theory imaginable flitting about the shadows and still-frames of a movie.

Especially when it comes to something as overdone and trite as fans making up crap about the parentage of characters -- as if every story ever made was another example of some teenager's bad fan-fiction. "My original character is the lost child of Hermoine and Draco from an alternate dimension!"

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Nobody said it wasn't speculation. It's just weird to see people argue against the evidence that makes the speculation more legitimate, all because they'd just not rather see the story written that way.

Or rather, they don't see "evidence" in random unrelated crap and take every second of what's shown on screen as another clue to a deeper mystery that doesn't actually exist.

Or they are engaging in wishful thinking. After all, if all the "evidence" is "random unrelated crap", then every Star Wars movie has just become garbage, because all of it is random unrelated crap by that standard.

The only wishful thinking is seeing "evidence" for every stupid pet theory imaginable flitting about the shadows and still-frames of a movie.

Especially when it comes to something as overdone and trite as fans making up crap about the parentage of characters -- as if every story ever made was another example of some teenager's bad fan-fiction. "My original character is the lost child of Hermoine and Draco from an alternate dimension!"

I'm beginning to wonder if there's anything at all about art that MaxKilljoy doesn't consider overdone and trite.

"Human existence is stale and overplayed, show me something new!"

I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying your'e engaging in speculation, not truthsaying.

Nobody said it wasn't speculation. It's just weird to see people argue against the evidence that makes the speculation more legitimate, all because they'd just not rather see the story written that way.

There is no evidence though to support the speculation. The actual evidence doesn't support it at all.

The only wishful thinking is seeing "evidence" for every stupid pet theory imaginable flitting about the shadows and still-frames of a movie.

Especially when it comes to something as overdone and trite as fans making up crap about the parentage of characters -- as if every story ever made was another example of some teenager's bad fan-fiction. "My original character is the lost child of Hermoine and Draco from an alternate dimension!"

Now it just sounds like you're trying to be contentious for the sake of being contentious. What's mind-boggling is that you write as if you're intelligently informed, and yet you argue as if you don't know the nature of the movies we're discussing. Trite and overdone are Star Wars' trademark.

There is no evidence though to support the speculation. The actual evidence doesn't support it at all.

You do know that circumstantial evidence is still evidence, right?

Now it just sounds like you're trying to be contentious for the sake of being contentious.

No, I just long ago lost all patience for groundless speculation being taken as fact.

There is no evidence though to support the speculation. The actual evidence doesn't support it at all.

You do know that circumstantial evidence is still evidence, right?

Circumstantial evidence, by definition, requires inference. Some "evidence" requires many miles of inference.

I'm sick of people taking miles of their own inference as "fact".

The only wishful thinking is seeing "evidence" for every stupid pet theory imaginable flitting about the shadows and still-frames of a movie.

Especially when it comes to something as overdone and trite as fans making up crap about the parentage of characters -- as if every story ever made was another example of some teenager's bad fan-fiction. "My original character is the lost child of Hermoine and Draco from an alternate dimension!"

Now it just sounds like you're trying to be contentious for the sake of being contentious

What's mind-boggling is that you write as if you're intelligently informed, and yet you argue as if you don't know the nature of the movies we're discussing. Trite and overdone are Star Wars' trademark.

Personally I think this George Lucas chap is an overrated hack who needs to stop stealing ideas from Kurosawa and Nowlan. Doesn't he know true art springs forth pure from the creator's mind, untainted by silly things like "inspiration" and "acquired taste"?

There is no evidence though to support the speculation. The actual evidence doesn't support it at all.

You do know that circumstantial evidence is still evidence, right?

There is no circumstancial evidence either. A Force vision from an inanimate object is not a paternity test.

She could have been a youngling at the school.

She could be a Kenobi, given Obi Wan speaks to her, and technically he had that saber longer than Anakin and Luke combined.

You're taking the event of the Force vision via the lightsaber and saying that equals evidence of your speculation. The Force vision was a factual event, it is what it is, and that's all it is. It does not prove anything. For it to be circumstantial evidence, it would be need to be a fact that proves paternity.

There is no evidence though to support the speculation. The actual evidence doesn't support it at all.

You do know that circumstantial evidence is still evidence, right?

There is no circumstancial evidence either. A Force vision from an inanimate object is not a paternity test.

She could have been a youngling at the school.

She could be a Kenobi, given Obi Wan speaks to her, and technically he had that saber longer than Anakin and Luke combined.

You're taking the event of the Force vision via the lightsaber and saying that equals evidence of your speculation. The Force vision was a factual event, it is what it is, and that's all it is. It does not prove anything. For it to be circumstantial evidence, it would be need to be a fact that proves paternity.

I think you're confusing circumstantial evidence with direct evidence.

Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly, without need for any additional evidence or inference. A paternity test would be direct evidence.