I've sworn fealty to Lady Doji

Even if Crane's economic might were superseded by the Mantis, it's political power overwhelmed by the Scorpion, it's military widely ridiculed for most of its existence, it's dueling prowess no longer relevant in an environment full of meta... basically it's identity stripped in the later years in AEG, Crane always endured that's what I love about them.

yes i agree crane is always close to my heart as well as dragon.

Mantis.

They are strange, weird, and it's like playing four different clans in one. And I love the Kitsune Spirit decks.

if i had a mantis deck i would do a spirit deck it looks a interesting theme

Crane.

Toturi's Army back in the day.

i had a toturis army deck too, i called it mini lion lol

While Naga was my clan back in the old days, I shifted over to Phoenix during the dragons deck days (Lotus I think) and ultimately to Dragon for enlightenment play.

But to be truthful, I always liked to play random theme decks I put together...

Dragon province deck

Shadowlands goblin deck

Mantis ancestral item deck

...among others.

i enjoy playing theme decks to, it is far more interesting to design and play, thats why i have over 20 decks for 2 clans

Never played the CCG, as it always looked like a mess and I felt it's ties to the RPG really F*ed up the story line.

But Lion Clan now and always.

P.S. Also, the fact that Lion were never, ever competitive in the time i WAS looking at the CCG just killed all of my interest.

In which edition Lion wasn't competetive?

yeah have to agree...... lion has always been one of the best attack decks in the game

I last looked at the cardgame....... 10 years ago at this point? It was well after i was into the RPG and I found out about the cardgame. Went to a store I was told that had a big game presence (down in rockville near D.C, , DreamWizards I think it's called?) to learn about the game and get some pointers on how to play my favorite clan.

Every person I talked to told me that they were lackluster, at best 2nd at what they want to do. Mantis and Unicorn had better military because of some weird order that you place you fighters or could rearrange their fighters, and Crane would blow you out of the water on Honor victory.

At least that's what I was told, and it really killed my interest getting into the game because what had been sold to me in the RPG didn't seem to hold water in the CCG.

When I was active in the CCG, the Dragon Clan was my favorite -- I was a big fan of the Hitomi story through Jade/Pearl. I also really liked the Crab Clan and I played them almost as frequently.

My favorites.....

First I wanted to play Ninja and when I got the chance, I loved it, but the chance was taken away.

Then I think my favorite was the Snake Clan. I liked the idea of a lost clan who once hunted the darkness and then got emerged in it... and shortly after I took up their cause, they were supported in the fiction as though the game was responding to my and many other's desires.

But, I think eventually as I learned more and more about Japan, I found myself more drawn towards the Imperial families-- particularly the Otomo. Maybe it was completely headcanon on my part, but I kind of feel that to a degree the Imperial Families were the only ones allowed to act anywhere close to the sort of arrogance mixed with moral murkiness showing both high and low ethical values as real samurai tended to display. Most other clans seemed to fall into the category of caricature the longer the game went on.

Its like the game got so married to the concept that clan X did this one and only this one particular thing, perhaps partly because the mechanics of the game become ever more tightened up and more balanced, that it didn't feel like any individual from any Great Clan could really properly display the whole gamut of a real individual.

My fealty belongs to the Unicorn Clan in a very strict sense.

I do not see myself as honorable enough to play Crane, Lion, or Phoenix. I am too open, and friendly to be a Dragon, not underhanded enough to be Scorpion. I have tried my hand at Crab, but my friends just said I was Unicorn in dark blue armor. They told me to go back to Unicorn. I also in the early days built my Unicorn decks to win by Enlightenment, Honor, and Military conditions. Then as the game progressed over the years, and the Shinjo were no longer leading the Clan, I shifted my play style a little to do Military/Honor switch decks utilizing primarily the Shinjo, and Utaku families.

I liked the Min-Hee Sensei for the few games I got to play. It was fun pulling off movement shenanigans to use the printed battle abilities, then through movement unbow, and re-enter the fray.

My favorites.....

First I wanted to play Ninja and when I got the chance, I loved it, but the chance was taken away.

Then I think my favorite was the Snake Clan. I liked the idea of a lost clan who once hunted the darkness and then got emerged in it... and shortly after I took up their cause, they were supported in the fiction as though the game was responding to my and many other's desires.

But, I think eventually as I learned more and more about Japan, I found myself more drawn towards the Imperial families-- particularly the Otomo. Maybe it was completely headcanon on my part, but I kind of feel that to a degree the Imperial Families were the only ones allowed to act anywhere close to the sort of arrogance mixed with moral murkiness showing both high and low ethical values as real samurai tended to display. Most other clans seemed to fall into the category of caricature the longer the game went on.

Its like the game got so married to the concept that clan X did this one and only this one particular thing, perhaps partly because the mechanics of the game become ever more tightened up and more balanced, that it didn't feel like any individual from any Great Clan could really properly display the whole gamut of a real individual.

That makes very little sense in the context of the CCG considering Snake and Otomo were never playable options. Anyway.

Favourite. None really. My problem was always that I liked quite a few of the clans and never wanted to pick just one. That is why I am so glad about the LCG. In the CCG it made sense as you needed quite often a lot of Rares in your decks. So picking a Clan helped with that.

I did however play Toturi's Army, Shadowlands and Unicorn during Jade, Crane/Shadowlands during Gold, Ratlings/Phoenix during Lotus, Lion/Crab during Emperor.

That makes very little sense in the context of the CCG considering Snake and Otomo were never playable options. Anyway.

I maybe misunderstood the question then as I was speaking in terms of the fiction and RPG rather than only things that you could play as a box in the CCG.

Although both were playable options. The Otomo were in Toturi's army while the Snake became part of the Spider Clan.

Although I only ever played the Shadowlands before they were the Spider clan and never after. When I was a fan of the Snake, I played it as corrupted Phoenix. Just used Phoenix and played a few Shadowlands shugenja out of it. I even photoshopped card images and made printouts so that the stronghold and personality cards had Chuda-version overlays.

Never did that with the Imperials though. By the time I wanted to play them, after returning from my year in Japan, I found that the distance to travel to the store and the time I needed to be there to play weren't worth it to me to remain engaged in the hobby. I collected the various Otomo, Seppun and Miya cards that had been put out, but couldn't figure out how to run the few that were legal out of Shiro Otomo (or any Stronghold for that matter) even making a useless deck to do so and ultimately gave up.

With Journey's End Keep XP, there is now an Imperial stronghold. It makes for a fun Modern format deck! It's a shame that so many of the 'old' Miya, Otomo and Seppun didn't have the Imperial keyword. Not even the Emperor did!

With Journey's End Keep XP, there is now an Imperial stronghold. It makes for a fun Modern format deck! It's a shame that so many of the 'old' Miya, Otomo and Seppun didn't have the Imperial keyword. Not even the Emperor did!

Oh.. looks like it came out two years after I moved back to Japan. Still, I should buy it up and add it to my collection.

With Journey's End Keep XP, there is now an Imperial stronghold. It makes for a fun Modern format deck! It's a shame that so many of the 'old' Miya, Otomo and Seppun didn't have the Imperial keyword. Not even the Emperor did!

The wording of that card is an excellent example of why I'd love to see FFG make the same change they made in the transition from Thrones 1E to 2E; that is, remove the term "clan" from gameplay and replace it with "faction," with the clans being the primary, but not only factions in the game.

I just ended up making fun decks for general use rather than anything tournament wise. Having several makes it easy to simply give an opponent one of the decks if need be. Plus, the decks are reasonably balanced with each other too. Even tried 4 Scorpion Coup deck build around the Scorpion being more powerful but up against three less powerful opponents (maybe two if the Crab player wanted to swing against the Lion or Crane).

With Journey's End Keep XP, there is now an Imperial stronghold. It makes for a fun Modern format deck! It's a shame that so many of the 'old' Miya, Otomo and Seppun didn't have the Imperial keyword. Not even the Emperor did!

The wording of that card is an excellent example of why I'd love to see FFG make the same change they made in the transition from Thrones 1E to 2E; that is, remove the term "clan" from gameplay and replace it with "faction," with the clans being the primary, but not only factions in the game.

It's something AEG themselves went back and forth on several times, factions being just 'clans' to start with, the being factions when Shadowlands and Monks and Naga came along, and then back to being just 'clan alignment' when Samurai Edition did away with non-clan factions.

With Journey's End Keep XP, there is now an Imperial stronghold. It makes for a fun Modern format deck! It's a shame that so many of the 'old' Miya, Otomo and Seppun didn't have the Imperial keyword. Not even the Emperor did!

The wording of that card is an excellent example of why I'd love to see FFG make the same change they made in the transition from Thrones 1E to 2E; that is, remove the term "clan" from gameplay and replace it with "faction," with the clans being the primary, but not only factions in the game.

It's something AEG themselves went back and forth on several times, factions being just 'clans' to start with, the being factions when Shadowlands and Monks and Naga came along, and then back to being just 'clan alignment' when Samurai Edition did away with non-clan factions.

At a certain point, I think I kind of just would like to see the Hantei families become another clan. It weirdly feels like it would allow the families to be considered less of a one-trick pony. I mean the Otomo have been running the tax office, seeing that those taxes are spent (and making the final decision on how more often than note), serving as the judges in inner-clan dispute when it is below the attention of the emperor himself, recording and maintaining the laws, handling domestic and foreign affairs..... but, in the RPG.... mechanically in the RPG? They just blow through their void points in half a minute to turn one person against another person and then are completely worthless.

The Seppun have been the Imperial army, police, guardians of the temples, enforcers of the law and strong arm of the emperor himself-- and generally commanders of any other clans whose members take on some of these roles. Even more so than the Inquisitors and Investigators, it has been up to them to solve crimes across Rokugan, hunt down the bad guys and come in to stomp on those who get out of control in the name of the throne... mechanically in the RPG they.... blow through all their void points in half a minute to do a half-assed job of protecting the emperor, assuming their honor is high enough.

In the Card Game its been even worse. Literally every time an Otomo has ever appeared in the Card game and gotten a name, they have just been a punching bag villain who gets trounced because unlike the Shadowlands ones-- they can't be represented. Or they just get killed randomly as a plot twist to say "we're weally serial dis time guys!!" but the writer neither has the permission nor the cajones to take out a character who actually belongs to a playable faction.

The Seppun have been just as badly used, often forgotten completely, except Tashime who got to be the neutral hero.

Of course, the excuse has always been "They can't be a real clan! there are too few of them!!" you know-- even though they have been around long as any other great clan, absorbed 90% of the "Hantei" family members, have been the families all would have aspired to marry into, have been kept far away from the real dangers.... and somehow the excuse of numbers doesn't stop 2000 Ronin, Tsuruichi, Moshi, Chuda, Goji or any random minor clan that literally crawls out of the woodwork and instantly has a 5-rank school and thousands of members a single day after being declared a clan.

I can't count how many times clans were competing for a position or a chance to be a hero and... well... no one from the Hantei families was even in the running. There was literally no possible way they were allowed to do anything constructive.

I guess it would be obvious why no one would like them as a result. But I think there is something kind of charming about a clan whose feet are firmly planted on the ground, has been running the government for 1,000 years of peace and once they got shoved aside, everything went to crap... and they aren't really afraid of doing what needs to be done and may be arrogant, conceited and abrasive, but maybe even because of that they are a bit more free to act like the kind of mixed bag of shining, amazing hero, scumbag bastard and eccentric out-of-touch, vice-indulging spoiled brat that the really successful samurai of the sengoku and edo period were.

I think the idea of demoting them down to a Great Clan and simply stating that Imperial positions during the remaining Iweko dynasty are appointed via qualification or political convenience rather than the nepotism that colored the Hantei era-- and suddenly you can give away all the positions with the understanding that the Hantei families are competing for it too. They just maybe get less strongholds and personality cards than the other factions. Maybe have them replace Toturi's Army and integrate the Brotherhood of Shinsei.

It has to be a more sensible faction than Rat-people competing to be Emerald Champion at least.

Flavorwise, I think it's a given that they'll want to drop the idea that each clan is excellent at one or two things and bad at everything else. From a gameplay standpoint in the LCG, though, our Cranes need to be excellent at dueling and politics, our Lions and Crabs need to have the best miitary, etc.

That seems contradictory. A clan getting dueling support would make other clans that don't receive dueling support "bad" by comparison.

Bad at dueling, yes, but only in a gameplay sense, and only as it applies to that particular design space. They would have other themes to play around with. But then you don't have the ever-nagging question of how a non-Crane can become Topaz Champion in the lore, from an event which always ends with an iaijutsu tournament. Alternatively they could give every clan equal access to dueling effects, and even diminish the story emphasis on the Crane and Dragon having the best dueling schools, but I'm not sure how many fans of those clans would go for that.

Let's be honest, though: there are by necessity things in the game that don't correspond 1/1 with elements of the lore. Every game of L5R ends with a clan being wiped out, either physically or politically (i.e. having its name stricken from the Imperial record), or gaining control of the courts or the religious infrastructure of the Empire.

If the Crane Clan gets pissed that someone else won the Topaz Champion, that's the Crane's problem and not the designer's. Maybe send a better duelist or player next time? Geez, they have such arrogance.

Since I'm not primarily a Crane player I can't say for sure, but I'd imagine a lot f it has to do with the fact that the clan's original purpose was to set down the law of the land. They got to establish iaido as the conventional method of solving disputes, and while I'm not sure which was cause or effect, but either way they ended up masters of the art, so that if anyone dared to call a Crane out on their rhetoric, they were likely to be proven wrong by the outcome of the resulting challenge.

And this is a large part of why the Crane nowadays have such a dominating presence in the courts. So I dunno how easily we can just discard that without it affecting the clan's identity to a certain degree.

It would have helped if the Topaz Championship event hadn't consistently been held in a place with experienced, solid, dead-skilled Unicorn and Dragon players over the last few years of the game.

Actually, that was one thing that kinda monkeyed with Clan loyalty... having the jeweled events in the same places year after year after year...

That seems contradictory. A clan getting dueling support would make other clans that don't receive dueling support "bad" by comparison.

I think it is the difference between RPG and CCG. Within the RPG, a person from any clan should imaginably be capable of being anything. No more crappy school system that insists that if you are from clan X then the only thing you can ever do well is military position Y and if you try anything else, you either have to be trained in a foreign school, or you have to be face-palmingly substandard with all your strongest features being things you under-utilize.

Various RPGs have demonstrated that you really only need a small bump to get min/maxers to flood a certain way, you don't need vastly overpowered school abilities enforcing that the "one true path" is taken. Duelists were one of those things that surely all clans had, but if you weren't the right Clan with the right school, you stood no chance.

Far more egregious was cavalry. If you were Unicorn, you were just straight-up awarded the most expensive and useful item in the entire book just for having chosen that clan-- and all your school abilities were built around being the best of the best on horseback and not bad at all off of it. If you chose any other clan, it really didn't matter how many points you put into riding because you would never be able to have enough to purchase even the worst of horses. You flat out could not possibly ever be a cavalryman from any other clan, let alone the super-powerful abilities Unicorn got that made actual skill ranks meaningless through their effect.

But even a cursory look at the artwork of clans would tell you-- ever single one has cavalry. There are even ashigaru cavalrymen!! Sure, their horses might not be quite as good as the Unicorn's-- but they were not nonexistent as the RPG enforced being so.

So a new version of the RPG where schools and clans have much less impact, maybe just a few initial attribute points and skills that give you a slight edge on a certain path, but by no means make other paths unavailable and actual techniques are learned based on your actual duties and experiences.

However, in the CCG... well, if every faction had absolute equal access to every technique, there would be very little reason to have different factions. Obviously the faction itself and its most iconic leaders are going to have to fit certain specialties. But that is the clan as a whole.

Let's look at it this way-- Japan's major crop is rice and rice-derived products. Probably more than any other country in the world they are the best at growing rice and making rice derived products. This does NOT mean that people in Japan absolutely 100% without any deviation absolutely must be a rice farmer down to every single last individual. No. Of course they can grow fruit! Or raise cattle! Or grow corn or wheat or barley... and a farmer who does those particular things has no barriers to being world class either! And, naturally, you have a whole society with jobs that have nothing to do with farming whatsoever.

Moreover, there are plenty of rice growers and makers of rice-derived products outside of Japan who might even be better than most Japanese rice-growers. But just not all that many for Japan to lose its claim to it being the national specialty.

So if you are playing a game about swapping crops with other countries and you are playing Japan, then you will have an advantage in the rice market and it will be your most important crop for international trading.

But if you are playing a game where you are an individual farmer in Japan, there is no reason you cannot grow barley and make beer instead and be plenty competitive with those German beers.

Hopefully that analogy is not so esoteric....

That being said, I really hope the whole concept of dueling is revisited from the ground up. The way it worked in the game, if one is totally honest, was that someone was allowed to straight-up assassinate people who had no chance against your ultra-powerful personality for doing nothing wrong but being on the other side of the board and there was often no defense against it whatsoever and the person carrying out blatant assassinations was receiving "honor" for it.

Various different incarnations and tweaks about it were attempted, but at the end-- it never really came across as anything other than outright assassination against defenseless, innocent targets for which the assassin was awarded "honor" making "honor" a stupid and meaningless concept. And the extent to which that seeped into the RPG, particularly in the early editions, has a devastating effect.

Making all honorable duels non-lethal outside of battles or that are not in response to a personality taking an action that loses honor or causes an honor loss for instance would go a long way towards fixing this problem.

Moreover, the Crane were not supposed to be about dueling primarily or exclusively in the first place. But because it was a mechanic that allowed you to assassinate people willy-nilly while gaining victory points for doing so, it massively overtook the identity of the clan to an extent it really wasn't supposed to. No other political action could really hope to compete with straight-up murdering someone for no reason and getting huge heapings of victory points in return. Nevermind the possibility that you could possibly force someone to discard their hand in desperation of trying to save the victim.

Sure, the idea was supposed to be that dueling was "risky" and so that is why it awarded better-- but it was rarely actually risky in any way at all.

Sure, the idea was supposed to be that dueling was "risky" and so that is why it awarded better-- but it was rarely actually risky in any way at all.

That was often because most decks (outside of Tacticians, Dueling and possibly Enlightenment) did not care about Focus Values. Cards with 0s 1s and 2s were supposed to be "strong but make you vulnerable to dueling," but the meta made FV meaningless so everyone loaded up on them.