I will also come out and say that I think part of the popularity of Demolisher is due to the relative unpopularity of the VSD.

When you are building an imperial list and looking at points, Demolisher (naked) is 66 points at a bare minimum, more if you take a GSD2 (but why). A naked VSD1 is 73 points, which is one upgrade away from Demolisher.

But the VSD is slow as hell, and everyone knows that and exploits it. The Imperials, at four ships (vs the Rebel five, who in the same points neighborhood have the Neb B escort with its titles, the MC30, and the AF2), simply don't have other options.

This is not to deny the power of Demolisher, but also to say that as flotillas (uniquely equipped to block Demolisher) and more ships arrive in the next two waves or so, this problem may solve itself. Patience is probably the correct response here. In a technical sense, if all the Imperial ships were equally liked and played, you'd expect to see it in 25% of lists, so it's not totally crazy with the showing here.

I think I'm with you, Reinholt....

... But being the Calm, Logical, Patient ones seems to be a bit of an outlier

I will also come out and say that I think part of the popularity of Demolisher is due to the relative unpopularity of the VSD.

When you are building an imperial list and looking at points, Demolisher (naked) is 66 points at a bare minimum, more if you take a GSD2 (but why). A naked VSD1 is 73 points, which is one upgrade away from Demolisher.

But the VSD is slow as hell, and everyone knows that and exploits it. The Imperials, at four ships (vs the Rebel five, who in the same points neighborhood have the Neb B escort with its titles, the MC30, and the AF2), simply don't have other options.

This is not to deny the power of Demolisher, but also to say that as flotillas (uniquely equipped to block Demolisher) and more ships arrive in the next two waves or so, this problem may solve itself. Patience is probably the correct response here. In a technical sense, if all the Imperial ships were equally liked and played, you'd expect to see it in 25% of lists, so it's not totally crazy with the showing here.

I am in agreement with you on all of this. I am actually thinking it might be a "learning curve" thing with the imperial ships. The ISD and Demolisher put out the pain no matter what. The VSD and the Raider require more technique. I would argue that both are excellent in certain situations but can royally suck in others.

I also think patience is needed. The VSD will see a resurgence with Flotillas and bomber command. Two activations to spit out 4-7 rerollable black bomber dice will be no joke. All at a price of about 100 points.

Here's some info on the SoCal Regional

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsArmada/comments/4gdp75/california_regional/

Curious results in Fargo. Looks like Rhymerballs did pretty well verse the Clonisher in this one. Are you going to post some kind of AAR from your games JJ?

The 41 point bid in KY though is just insane(no offense). I like Mike's take on the DeMSU list that still has a nice fighter compliment to tie up those Rhymerballs.

Also how were regional bye's treated at the last 2 tournaments? 9-1 or 8-2 and what was the MOV? Thanks!

I deny nothing

Here's some info on the SoCal Regional

https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsArmada/comments/4gdp75/california_regional/

Thanks for the tip.

Ha, another Rhymerballs win. Nerf Rhymer!

Ha, another Rhymerballs win. Nerf Rhymer!

Ah but according to at least one poster no one ran a GRRRR DeMSU. Which is interesting in of itself.

Ha, another Rhymerballs win. Nerf Rhymer!

Ah but according to at least one poster no one ran a GRRRR DeMSU. Which is interesting in of itself.

Yeah, I saw that. There wasn't even so much as a quad Glad list. I think HERO is a big part of that meta and he's big on Ackbar. It might be the SoCal meta has stayed isolated from the Demolisher resurgence and instead went squadron heavy to counter Ackbar. I'd be very interested in hearing more detail.

I'm a bit curious about the method of classification.

I take it that your definition of a DeMSU is that it has >4 ships, so that it is distinct from the 4-ship Demo list.

Also, does the Rhymerball have a definition that makes it distinct from a 4-ship Demo list, or is it possible to be in both categories?

Ha, another Rhymerballs win. Nerf Rhymer!

Ah but according to at least one poster no one ran a GRRRR DeMSU. Which is interesting in of itself.

The Meta in the Portland-Vancouver area has not seen the list at all and we may not see it till the Tacoma Regionals.

I'm a bit curious about the method of classification.

I take it that your definition of a DeMSU is that it has >4 ships, so that it is distinct from the 4-ship Demo list.

Also, does the Rhymerball have a definition that makes it distinct from a 4-ship Demo list, or is it possible to be in both categories?

I've been intending to publish the definitions for the archetypes that I'm organizing things into. I will add a full list later, but can at least answer your question for now.

DeMSU - 5 ships with a fully-kitted Demolisher and a high bid

4-ship Demolisher - A fully kitted Demolisher and a significant initiative bid.

Ryhmerball - 6+ squadrons with Ryhmer

I'd say about half of the Ryhmerball lists also have Demolisher, but so far none of them has been fully kitted out, with 4 ships, and a high initiative bid. I think there was one 4-ship fleet with both Ryhmer and Demolisher, but it lacked the initiative bid and upgrades like Engine Tech that I typically see in the 4-ship Demolisher-centric fleets.

I'm not listing anything in multiple archetypes yet and so far have been able to keep them distinct. The 400 point limit does seem to force people to focus.

I've folded some of my initial categories together as I've collected more data. The line between fireball and Ryhmerball was too fuzzy and not very illuminating, so those have been combined as an example.

The VSD and the Raider require more technique. I would argue that both are excellent in certain situations but can royally suck in others.

I also think patience is needed. The VSD will see a resurgence with Flotillas and bomber command. Two activations to spit out 4-7 rerollable black bomber dice will be no joke. All at a price of about 100 points.

With several Bomber commands you can have multiple rerolls. . . It will be harsh. . .

Ha, another Rhymerballs win. Nerf Rhymer!

Ah but according to at least one poster no one ran a GRRRR DeMSU. Which is interesting in of itself.

I am actually not surprised. It is a hard list to get used to and not everyone can practice it or want to for that matter.

The Meta in the Portland-Vancouver area has not seen the list at all and we may not see it till the Tacoma Regionals.

I could buy/borrow another Raider (and APTs, right?) and give it a shot. That said, it wouldn't be a fair test, since it's not my style of play, nor one that I've had much practice in.

Ha, another Rhymerballs win. Nerf Rhymer!

Ah but according to at least one poster no one ran a GRRRR DeMSU. Which is interesting in of itself.

I am actually not surprised. It is a hard list to get used to and not everyone can practice it or want to for that matter.

The Meta in the Portland-Vancouver area has not seen the list at all and we may not see it till the Tacoma Regionals.

I could buy/borrow another Raider (and APTs, right?) and give it a shot. That said, it wouldn't be a fair test, since it's not my style of play, nor one that I've had much practice in.

I mean you have a ship that can destroy a MC80 or ISD in 3 attacks.

I could buy/borrow another Raider (and APTs, right?) and give it a shot. That said, it wouldn't be a fair test, since it's not my style of play, nor one that I've had much practice in.

You would need roughly 5 games of play. Though the crux of how it works is pretty easy.

I mean you have a ship that can destroy a MC80 or ISD in 3 attacks.

5 games is about 5 more than I'll be able to get in before Regionals.

I could buy/borrow another Raider (and APTs, right?) and give it a shot. That said, it wouldn't be a fair test, since it's not my style of play, nor one that I've had much practice in.

You would need roughly 5 games of play. Though the crux of how it works is pretty easy.

I mean you have a ship that can destroy a MC80 or ISD in 3 attacks.

5 games is about 5 more than I'll be able to get in before Regionals.

Pittsburgh Regionals

Players : 16

Top 4: 1 Rebel; 3 Imperials (Ozzel, Motti, Screed)

Winner: Biggs! Rebel

List:

MC80 Assault

- Rieekan

- Defiance

- ECM

- Intel Officer

- Leading Shots

CR90A

- Jaina's Light

- TRC

CR90B (x2)

-SW7 Ions

Tycho

Dash

YT-2400

A-Wing x3

There were 7 First Round Byes out of 16 players.

There were 7 First Round Byes out of 16 players.

Hell yeah biggs! Woo woo! Congrats man!

There were 7 First Round Byes out of 16 players.

Great job on the win!

Do you know the overall Rebel/Imperial breakdown?

There were 7 First Round Byes out of 16 players.

Great job on the win!

Do you know the overall Rebel/Imperial breakdown?

Not off with 100% accuracy, sadly. I think it was 8 - 8, but I am not 100% on that.

Of the Pittsburgh guys, we had 4 Rebels (Rieekan x3, Dodonna) and 3 Imperials (Ozzel, Motti x2).

I saw a pair of Ackbars, a Garm, and a Mon Mothma for the Rebels. Mottis (5) and Screeds (2) for Imperials - Ozzel was the only odd man out there I saw, and he got 2nd place.

Again, I'm not 100% on this - I tried to at least get an eye on all of the lists, and I that is what I remembered.

There were 7 First Round Byes out of 16 players.

So 8 byes ;P

And yeah, 8 byes.

So, weird thing with Pittsburgh, they were also using the TOME software, and it also gave 9-1 byes for the first round. Everyone collectively came over to try and explain why that shouldn't be the case, but the decision was made by the Organizer that if the official FFG software said 9 point bye for the 1st round, then a 9 point bye is what everyone gets.

In the end, it didn't really change the top standings at all.

First place was 27 points (bye taken, 26 if 8 points) (Rieekan)

Second place was 25 points (bye taken, 24) (Ozzel)

Third place was 22 points (no bye) (Motti)

Fourth place was 21 (bye taken, 20, H2H tiebreaker over 5th place) (Screed)

Fifth place was 20 points (no bye) (Rieekan)

Sixth place was 19 points (no bye) (Motti I think?)

Seventh place was 19 points (bye taken, lost by MOV) (Motti)

and... I forget 8th place. 14ish?

On a stranger note, during Round 3 a player that was lowish in the standings was going to drop in the end of the 2nd round, because he had to leave. But he decided not to drop and try to convince his opponent to take an intentional draw instead, so that he could "finish" the tournament. His opponent did not accept, and he was forced to concede giving them a 400-0 MOV, 10 point win (see 6th place). A very weird situation.

There were 7 First Round Byes out of 16 players.

So 8 byes ;P

And yeah, 8 byes.

So, weird thing with Pittsburgh, they were also using the TOME software, and it also gave 9-1 byes for the first round. Everyone collectively came over to try and explain why that shouldn't be the case, but the decision was made by the Organizer that if the official FFG software said 9 point bye for the 1st round, then a 9 point bye is what everyone gets.

In the end, it didn't really change the top standings at all.

First place was 27 points (bye taken, 26 if 8 points) (Rieekan)

Second place was 25 points (bye taken, 24) (Ozzel)

Third place was 22 points (no bye) (Motti)

Fourth place was 21 (bye taken, 20, H2H tiebreaker over 5th place) (Screed)

Fifth place was 20 points (no bye) (Rieekan)

Sixth place was 19 points (no bye) (Motti I think?)

Seventh place was 19 points (bye taken, lost by MOV) (Motti)

and... I forget 8th place. 14ish?

On a stranger note, during Round 3 a player that was lowish in the standings was going to drop in the end of the 2nd round, because he had to leave. But he decided not to drop and try to convince his opponent to take an intentional draw instead, so that he could "finish" the tournament. His opponent did not accept, and he was forced to concede giving them a 400-0 MOV, 10 point win (see 6th place). A very weird situation.

The last situation is not weird. It's the exact thing the concession rule is designed for.

That said, he should have turned to the TO prior to the start of the round and dropped then, causing the other player to play.