Post maneuver repositioning is a key factor in pilot skill valuation.

That is to say, PS2 Cartel Marauder (20 pts) is more viable than a PS1 Alpha squadron with autothruster (20 pts), but Soontier Fel with PTL (32) is better than Talonbane Cobra with Lone Wolf and Glitterstim (32)

Part of what's kept Tie Fighter and Headhunters viable at all PS values, is that they're jousters with a PS cost that acnoweges that they're jousters. A black squadron pays 2 points for 3 PS and an EPT, where a tansari point vet pays 3 for 3 pilotskill.

Unfortunately, I dont see a way of fixing this.

Removing PS would be a great way to fix it

Or just not overpricing epts

Poor blacksun ace; poor baron of the empire

So far I've been running a lot of K-Wing lately, and while they have the BEST post-manoeuvre adjustment, it's at the sacrifice of not attacking that round. Otherwise, you're just setting your move and taking a Focus or TL, then waiting for the Combat phase. It makes it feel all the sweeter when you've successfully blocked a ship or zipped past a firing arc.

So much this. I love planning a turn or two ahead to trap ships in my firing arcs and/or block them. The past few waves the real problem has been that jousters had trouble making their damage stick even when they set up their shots properly, regeneration and heavy green dice modification made it easy for a lot of elite ships to soak a bad maneuver and go about their business. This is less true now, thanks to some pretty dangerous ordnance options.

There's not much that is more frustrating that catching Soontir in a kill box and seeing him come away from the combat phase with his Stealth Device intact after having a bucket of red dice thrown his way..

I'm pretty sure this thread is a direct response to every single thread about either updating old ships or introducing new astromechs getting derailed by dozens of people demandi g that their T-65s get free boosts and/or barrel rolls.

Removing PS from maneuvering could be neat. Just alternate back and forth for activation.

If you really can't figure out how to play the game without reacting to your opponent and retroactively adjusting your position, then maybe it's time to do yourself a favour and reacquaint yourself with the core set and the basic rules.

AND WHILE WE'RE AT IT.

Being able to perform one action per turn does not mean that your "action economy sux", it is the STANDARD. Every single ship in the game starts in this position, and (one or two notable exceptions aside) you have to pay a premium and/or suffer a penalty to improve that position. If you really can't figure out how to play the game without being able to perform two to three actions per turn, then maybe it's time to do yourself a favour and reacquaint yourself with the core set and the basic rules.

Public service announcement over. We now return you to your regularly scheduled unnecessary bleating for "fixes".

Problem is so many ships can do it. The only ships that can't without an expanded arc are the Lambda, X-wing, Kihraxz and Z-95.

I personally think the game would be better off if you were limited to a single reposition. I did a big post on effective arc: repositioning effectively shrinks the firing arc of a lower PS attacking ship. Double reposition shrinks it further to the point where a TIE interceptor can get caught right in the middle and still escape. It's double reposition that lets you solo a load of lower pilot skill ships, not Boost or Barrel themselves.

What is the OP's point?

People aren't calling for fixes because a ship cannot reposition or take multiple actions. They are calling for a fix because a ship cannot reasonably complete with most other ships, which may indirectly be related to its lack of repositions or actions, but that is not the only path to "fixing" it.


Look at the Scyk, Star Viper, and E-Wing as prime examples of ships that cannot really compete as well with other competitive ships, despite the fact that they have innate repositioning options. With something like FCS, the E-Wing and Virago even have access to cheap action-economy. So clearly their uncompetitive cost comes from something more complex than just an absence of repositioning/action-economy.


FWIW: I share your sentiment that repositioning is far too common in this game, and I'd have liked to have seen far less of it than we currently have. The Z-95, X-Wing, Lambda, and Khiraxz are the only non-turretable front-arc ships in the game without repositioning, so I think the market has been overly flooded with repositioning (which, in my opinion does detract away from the significance of the maneuver selection in the Flightpath system).

IMO repositioning adds a lot to this game, which could otherwise devolve into dice trading (yawn)

Trying to limit repositioning won't get us anywhere except to a less complex less enjoyable game . on the forums arcdodging tends to be exaggerated; unmitigated by obstacles and the lost art of blocking anyway

The right answer is addressing hiw certain ships can't compete as a function of dice modifiers. Even getting soontir blocked and in arc won't accomplish Jack if you roll blanks, and then you pretty much go on to autolose

IMO we must look to the feedback Z and the deadeye torpboat for inspiration. Neither can arcdodge but both are very flexible and care not for the whims of rngesus

Edit: on the flipside, I'd love to see a formation flying buff applied via xizor's ability. Apparently rogue squad is big on teamwork; allowingbthem to spread damage out amongst squaddies would be a badass green dice ignoring mechanic

Removing PS would be a great way to fix it

Or just not overpricing epts

Poor blacksun ace; poor baron of the empire

You're underselling the potency which Blacksun Aces are enjoying with Mindlink now (admittedly you need to be a good player to make it work). Mindlinked 3Khz + Leeachos + Binayre has been doing really well against most lists with the exception of the Wolfpack.

I get what you're trying to do here Gecko, but it's a bit disingenuous. Ships which can only take one action, can't reposition, and have nothing else going for them (like a PWT or TLT or whatever) just suck.

Yes, you pay a premium for multiple actions and repositioning. Any everyone who has that option, pays that premium, so that nearly every ship on the table is a multi-action repositioning ace of some kind or other. Because NOT paying those extra points is just crazy, the benefits are SO large.

But 1 action a turn isn't the standard anymore, its behind the power curve. We have pilots that can get 3 without much trouble or that much of a penalty. Cards like R4 Agromech, FCS, K4 Security, V1 Title, etc. can give even lowly generics multiple actions a turn. Your move, focus or TL is just not that good anymore. Ships that can only do that are at a disadvantage.

No, one action per turn is still the standard. Yes, there are specific pilots who can get three (or more) without much trouble (and there have been since at least wave 3), but again you have to pay a premium for that ability. Whether you're paying for the pilot skill or an upgrade, it still costs you more to do it (which is the entire point of upgrade cards, they allow you to do things the rules wouldn't normally allow).

The notable exception will be the Defender's TIE/x7 title when it is released.

This premium is well worth it. Loaded Soontir Fel at 35 points can easily take on two Rookie Pilots which cost seven points more. Unless the Soontir player makes a huge mistake, there isn't much the Rookie Pilot player can do. Hell, he could probably take on more with a good player behind him.

Removing PS would be a great way to fix it

Or just not overpricing epts

Poor blacksun ace; poor baron of the empire

You're underselling the potency which Blacksun Aces are enjoying with Mindlink now (admittedly you need to be a good player to make it work). Mindlinked 3Khz + Leeachos + Binayre has been doing really well against most lists with the exception of the Wolfpack.

Can't undersell something that isnt there

Removing PS would be a great way to fix it

Or just not overpricing epts

Poor blacksun ace; poor baron of the empire

You're underselling the potency which Blacksun Aces are enjoying with Mindlink now (admittedly you need to be a good player to make it work). Mindlinked 3Khz + Leeachos + Binayre has been doing really well against most lists with the exception of the Wolfpack.

Can't undersell something that isnt there

You're looking at multiple ships that TL and Focus almost every single turn and three of which have 3 Atk and lovely 1 hard turns and mid speed greens. It's really good for as simple as it is. It's is a niche use for Khirazx fighters to be sure, but it works.

Also multiple arc locked ships that can't kturn at will because of that bizarre stipulation in the mindlink that requires passing stress

Great OP.

I tire of hearing about all the things that need fixing, I love this game the way it is.

The standard is not what you want it to be, or even what the game designers say it should be.

The standard is what it is - established by the competitive meta, chosen by a free-market system, survived the evolutionary process, whatever metaphor you choose - and the standard says, right now:

Pilots without the ability to reposition are behind the power curve and not good.

Pilots without action economy (with multiple actions, abilities/upgrades that replicate actions or do something no action does, or takes away an enemy's action) are behind the power curve and not good.

I understand what you're saying and I sympathize, FTS Gecko (and yeah, despite what you claim, part of it IS a "Git gud" speech), but competitive players play what works, and many of them aren't followers, but people who avidly test to find new combos and new uses for old pilots because it's a way to get an edge on the competition: just showing up in a ship that not many people see can throw opponents for a loop because they can't accurately predict movement and so on.

If a ship isn't making much of a blip on the list of players making a cut, then it isn't good.

But that's just competitive data in a strictly defined points set: death duels to 100 points. That's why finding different ways to play is so important because it lets ships which are bad in that format do amazingly elsewhere.

Play games of Epic, where a wing of Scyks with HLCs can tear apart a large ship.

Play the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster Co-Op Campaign, and watch your friends BEG you to bring your HWK support ship.

Bring out these tournament scenarios if you're sick of death matches and bring balanced variety to your games.

But don't complain, "Oh, you guys think that these ships which don't do well in tournaments suck, but you're wrong wrong WRONG!" because the data doesn't back up your statement.

....But that's just competitive data in a strictly defined points set: death duels to 100 points. That's why finding different ways to play is so important because it lets ships which are bad in that format do amazingly elsewhere.....

Yes, yes, yes! Awesome point.

Did anyone bother to read my Furball idea? NoooOOOoooooOOoooo......

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/217447-boba-ricks-superfantabulous-furball/

Play the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster Co-Op Campaign, and watch your friends BEG you to bring your HWK support ship.

Bring out these tournament scenarios if you're sick of death matches and bring balanced variety to your games.

One thing that Star Trek Attack Wing did well was the scenario cards and the additional terrain types. (Disclaimer: Not a player)

Star Wars Armada has their object cards..

Played a game last night running Trip Ion Y-Wings against a Rudor, Soontir, Whisper build. The sweetest moment in the game (for me) was predicting where Whisper would decloak and subsequently move - and having a Y-Wing sitting there waiting to block her and the other two within ICT range to Ion her up.

Oh, and catching a stressed Soontir with a ICT. That was good too. He didn't last the next round.

Fire and manouvere is the name of this game. Couldn't agree more with the OP.

Unfortunately, I dont see a way of fixing this.

Planning phase

Maneuver phase

Action phase

Combat phase

End phase

All handled in the current order of PS handling.

I'd really like to agree with the OP here, but there's way too many ships that can achieve the easy mode of uber action economy and repositioning, and especially now that stress control is gone from the meta they can do so consequence free. If your options are easy mode and not standard, standard becomes hard mode. It'd be great to see ship fixes that aren't "just add repositioning" but there's a valid reason to use it as a starting point.

There's too much repositioning, we need more EPT's and other upgrades with Action: on them.

The game itself would be better off without PtL in my opinion.

If you don't like your opponent being able to do 3 actions per turn, learn to block. I personally love using z95s with feedbacks. Blocking also shuts down some regen builds. You wanna tell ppl to go back and learn from the starter sets?!? Smh.

If you don't like your opponent being able to do 3 actions per turn, learn to block.

Which does nothing with my dissatisfaction about where the state of the game is headed of course. With all the extra actions and repositioning, the actual planning phase is slowly losing its importance.