"Chess problems" notation

By Magnus Grendel, in X-Wing

Just a random thought exercise: You see a lot of 'list building' discussions on this forum - because it's easy to discuss.

You have card titles - and you can look up what you do if it's not a card you know, because FFG are sensible and don't 'hide' the rules, they just insist on you having the actual cards for official events.

You have points values.

You spend the points and try to get the best combination of rules.

Discussing tactics, like deployment, or opening moves, or classic 'what's the best next move and why' is hard to do, because you really need an easy way to 'draw' the board.

The thing is, this is at least as important. You can (and should) put as much thought into "what obstacles do I want to bring" as "how do I spend the last 5-10 points" because the difference between 3 big debris fields and 3 small rocks makes a big impact on the game, as does how you group them

a b c d e f g h i j k

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 6

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 8

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 10

Imagine that grid above as the board. each 'square' is 3.6" across - slightly less than range 1, slightly more than a speed 2 move, enough for a couple of small ships to exist within by design (deployment) but sufficiently small that a large ship functionally fills it, and you probably wouldn't deliberately fly that close to another small ship without worring about crashing. No one 'box' can ever contain two obstacles, and normally there's a one-box gap between them.

For common reference, up, and left, are as we look at the board, and - as every Ender's Game fan knows, the enemy's edge is 'down'. Friendly deployment zone is therefore row 1, enemy deployment row 10, and rows 1,2,9,10 and columns a,b,j,k must be free of obstacles.

You can quickly copy/paste the 'board' above, and add in 'o' or 'd' for asteroids and debris, and and directional symbols for ships or groups of ships

Add in the easy copy/paste arrow symbols that exist in every font, and you've got a relatively easy means to describe a board: ←↑→↓↖↗↘↙

Just delete the spaces between each 'box' as required to make sure the columns don't get too far out of joint.

For example, with my TIE swarm, I tend to deploy in two blocks.

a b c d e f g h i j k

→_ →_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1

_ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 6

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 8

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9

X_ _ _ Y _ _ _ _ Z 10

Each arrow is a tight 'box' of four TIE fighters (slightly checker-boarded to allow them to bank), with either the four obsidian pilots or youngster in the 'back' box (A1). This is pretty much Hothie's 'evolving the shark' setup.

If your opponent deploys opposite you (A10, X) and heading 'up board' you can turn to face by doing hard turns and barrel rolling left, or by going straight 5 to open a gap, koiogran turning then banking in to face. Something which can cause serious issues is obstacles in that corner (C2), so you may want to deliberately place an obstacle in the corner you intend to set up in to ensure there's a 'free zone to maneuver around. Either place a debris (not too bad as you should have cleared stress before you engage), or a small rock you can turn around the right hand side of, or else put an obstacle somewhere at D2 or D3 to prevent your opponent putting a rock of their choice there.

If your opponent deploys on the opposite edge (K10, Z), head along your board edge and turn into the other outside channel. Again, try and avoid fighting in the rocks if you can - you'll find it hard work maneuvering and getting multiple obstructed shots can cost you the advantage of numbers.

The real problem is Y - generally anywhere in the centre. A big part of this will be driven by the obstacle map - which is why you need to try and establish 'channels' big enough to easily drive a TIE swarm through. A 2 x 2 'box' will always fit - so it can be easiest to just fly either side of an obstacle, but that may cost you concentration of fire.

Using that notation also gives us room to do classic 'chess problem' discussions:

a b c d e f g h i j k

↘_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2

_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 3

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4

_ _ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ 5

_ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ 6

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7

_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 8

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9

_ ↑ _ _ ↑ ↑ _ _ _ _ 10

In this example, you're facing a current common threat - 3 x Contracted Scout with Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips, Deadeye and R4 Agromech. The scouts have set up straight across, heading 'up' - two in the centre channel and one on the outside at B10.

You have an equally common squad - Soontir Fel, Darth Vader and an Omicron Group with Palpatine. Palpatine is already deployed due to his ride's low PS, in the A1 corner at an angle. You have the deployment edge for your two aces. Where do they go, and what is your first round maneuver, intended strategy and why?

Edited by Magnus Grendel

Oh, if only a squad builder could conjure up some way to create this!

Sticking the grid in Code tags may help with the layout.

a b c d e f g h i j k
↘ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2
_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 3
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4
_ _ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ 5
_ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ 6
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7
_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 8
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9
_ ↑ _ _ ↑ ↑ _ _ _ _ 10

Shouldn't be that hard to set it up on vassal/copy paste an image with the situation and link it. Would look prettier.

Sticking the grid in Code tags may help with the layout.

a b c d e f g h i j k
↘ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2
_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 3
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4
_ _ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ 5
_ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ 6
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7
_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 8
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9
_ ↑ _ _ ↑ ↑ _ _ _ _ 10

Thanks. I was trying to find if the BB code had something like [column] or similar. that's going to stay a lot easier to read.

Shouldn't be that hard to set it up on vassal/copy paste an image with the situation and link it. Would look prettier.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

I prefer to just say:

My ship will be kinda sorta over in that general area. Kinda.

Can I suggest that instead of a 10 x 10 grid you adopt an 11 by 11. This gives you both the advantage of having a centre square but also you can get approximately 11 Large bases along the edges of the 3' by 3' play area.

EDIT: also would o, O, d and D help indicate size of obstacle.

e.g.

a b c d e f g h i j k
↘ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2
_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ 3
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ 5
_ _ _ _ _ O _ _ _ _ _ 6
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7
_ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 8
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ 9
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 10
_ ↑ _ _ ↑ ↑ _ _ _ _ _ 11

Edited by ghotio

I would recommend using the same notation that the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster campaign book uses for deployment of AI squadrons:
The game mat is divided in 3 columns and 3 rows. Each column and row is 1 range-ruler wide.
A ruler is divided itself in 3 subdivisions, each of them being 1 range long.
At the same time, 1 range is 2.5 bases long.

So in the end the mat looks roughly like a sudoku board, all subdivisions using standard ingame measure units: 3x3 rulers,( that is, 9x9 ranges, or 22.5x22.5 bases)

+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
| 1 | 2 | 3 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
| 4 | 5 | 6 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
| 7 | 8 | 9 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+

At the same time, you can subdivide each square Ruler into 9 different square ranges.

+---+---+---+
|123|   |   |
|456| 2 | 3 |
|789|   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
| 4 | 5 | 6 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
| 7 | 8 | 9 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+

Then you can quickly refer to an area of 1 square range size by indicating first the square Ruler number, then the square range number inside that square Ruler. For example, There is an X-Wing at position 11, a TIE Interceptor at position 85 and an Asteroid at position 53.

+---+---+---+
|X  |   |   |
| 1 | 2 | 3 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   | A |   |
| 4 | 5 | 6 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+
|   |   |   |
| 7 | I | 9 |
|   |   |   |
+---+---+---+

You can go finer than this, if you consider that one square range can contain 4 small ships bases, one at each corner, and the separation between them would be half a base. Even when 9 small bases wouldn't fit in one square range, you could still imagine 9 points inside the square range where you could place the center of the base:
So a small ship placed in the top left corner of the mat would be in position 111, while a ship placed on the opposite corner (bottom right) would be position 999, with the absolute center of the mat being 555.

Edited by Azrapse

Vassal is the way. MUCH MUCH easier to understand.

Yes, I might be a Dwarf Fortress hardcore fan, but 9\10 aren't and they're not seeing the world through the third eye of Code Imagination

Why is the initial grid shown as 11 letters (columns) across, but only 10 rows deep? Am I missing something obvious?

For common reference, up, and left, are as we look at the board, and - as every Ender's Game fan knows, the enemy's edge is 'down'. Friendly deployment zone is therefore row 1, enemy deployment row 10, and rows 1,2,9,10 and columns a,b,j,k must be free of obstacles.

I think that you'd be better off flipping that. If the opponent's edge is the top it is consistent with the view you'd have from the table.

Just a random thought exercise: You see a lot of 'list building' discussions on this forum - because it's easy to discuss.

You have card titles - and you can look up what you do if it's not a card you know, because FFG are sensible and don't 'hide' the rules, they just insist on you having the actual cards for official events.

You have points values.

You spend the points and try to get the best combination of rules.

Discussing tactics, like deployment, or opening moves, or classic 'what's the best next move and why' is hard to do, because you really need an easy way to 'draw' the board.

The thing is, this is at least as important. You can (and should) put as much thought into "what obstacles do I want to bring" as "how do I spend the last 5-10 points" because the difference between 3 big debris fields and 3 small rocks makes a big impact on the game, as does how you group them

a b c d e f g h i j k

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 6

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 8

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 10

Imagine that grid above as the board. each 'square' is 3.6" across - slightly less than range 1, slightly more than a speed 2 move, enough for a couple of small ships to exist within by design (deployment) but sufficiently small that a large ship functionally fills it, and you probably wouldn't deliberately fly that close to another small ship without worring about crashing. No one 'box' can ever contain two obstacles, and normally there's a one-box gap between them.

For common reference, up, and left, are as we look at the board, and - as every Ender's Game fan knows, the enemy's edge is 'down'. Friendly deployment zone is therefore row 1, enemy deployment row 10, and rows 1,2,9,10 and columns a,b,j,k must be free of obstacles.

You can quickly copy/paste the 'board' above, and add in 'o' or 'd' for asteroids and debris, and and directional symbols for ships or groups of ships

Add in the easy copy/paste arrow symbols that exist in every font, and you've got a relatively easy means to describe a board: ←↑→↓↖↗↘↙

Just delete the spaces between each 'box' as required to make sure the columns don't get too far out of joint.

For example, with my TIE swarm, I tend to deploy in two blocks.

a b c d e f g h i j k

→_ →_ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1

_ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 3

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 5

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 6

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 8

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9

X_ _ _ Y _ _ _ _ Z 10

Each arrow is a tight 'box' of four TIE fighters (slightly checker-boarded to allow them to bank), with either the four obsidian pilots or youngster in the 'back' box (A1). This is pretty much Hothie's 'evolving the shark' setup.

If your opponent deploys opposite you (A10, X) and heading 'up board' you can turn to face by doing hard turns and barrel rolling left, or by going straight 5 to open a gap, koiogran turning then banking in to face. Something which can cause serious issues is obstacles in that corner (C2), so you may want to deliberately place an obstacle in the corner you intend to set up in to ensure there's a 'free zone to maneuver around. Either place a debris (not too bad as you should have cleared stress before you engage), or a small rock you can turn around the right hand side of, or else put an obstacle somewhere at D2 or D3 to prevent your opponent putting a rock of their choice there.

If your opponent deploys on the opposite edge (K10, Z), head along your board edge and turn into the other outside channel. Again, try and avoid fighting in the rocks if you can - you'll find it hard work maneuvering and getting multiple obstructed shots can cost you the advantage of numbers.

The real problem is Y - generally anywhere in the centre. A big part of this will be driven by the obstacle map - which is why you need to try and establish 'channels' big enough to easily drive a TIE swarm through. A 2 x 2 'box' will always fit - so it can be easiest to just fly either side of an obstacle, but that may cost you concentration of fire.

Using that notation also gives us room to do classic 'chess problem' discussions:

a b c d e f g h i j k

↘_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 1

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 2

_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 3

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 4

_ _ _ o _ _ _ _ _ _ 5

_ _ _ _ _ _ o _ _ _ 6

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 7

_ _ o _ _ _ _ o _ _ 8

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 9

_ ↑ _ _ ↑ ↑ _ _ _ _ 10

In this example, you're facing a current common threat - 3 x Contracted Scout with Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips, Deadeye and R4 Agromech. The scouts have set up straight across, heading 'up' - two in the centre channel and one on the outside at B10.

You have an equally common squad - Soontir Fel, Darth Vader and an Omicron Group with Palpatine. Palpatine is already deployed due to his ride's low PS, in the A1 corner at an angle. You have the deployment edge for your two aces. Where do they go, and what is your first round maneuver, intended strategy and why?

For common reference, up, and left, are as we look at the board, and - as every Ender's Game fan knows, the enemy's edge is 'down'. Friendly deployment zone is therefore row 1, enemy deployment row 10, and rows 1,2,9,10 and columns a,b,j,k must be free of obstacles.

I think that you'd be better off flipping that. If the opponent's edge is the top it is consistent with the view you'd have from the table.

Agreed. I appreciate the Ender's Game reference as much as the next nerd, but having the friendly deployment zone at the bottom of the grid preserves the meaning of "left" and "right" compared to how you'd use them at the table.

Fair enough. We're the enemy, then. Everyone's someones enemy, after all.

The comment about mirroring the board as you see it stood there is a sensible one.

I would like an Opening named after me... "The Lazy Defense."

I like this idea, not just for the forums, but for the podcasters as well. A lot of the podcasts spend a lot of time discussing list design and the current meta of list design, but I think that ends up being due to the difficulty of quickly and completely communicating the space of the board around asteroid placement, deployment, and maneuver strategies, not a lack of desire to think and talk about those topics.

I would love to come to the forums and see a full subforum discussing the more spatial aspects of the game with a simplified convention!