The following issue arose when I played my friend over the weekend:

The "Return of the Jedi" objective card states "Play after you win a battle in Darth Vader's or Emperor Palpatine's system." My friend had initiated combat against the Emperor, but after a few rounds the battle wasn't going well and I retreated. That counts as a "win" for the rebels, so my friend played the objective card.

However, since Palpatine had retreated, he was no longer in the same system as where the battle was won. Does this mean that the card cannot be played? Or did the win effectively happen as Palpatine retreated, so that the systems overlap? Thematically, it seems to me like the card was valid, but I can see the arguments either way.

The following issue arose when I played my friend over the weekend:

The "Return of the Jedi" objective card states "Play after you win a battle in Darth Vader's or Emperor Palpatine's system." My friend had initiated combat against the Emperor, but after a few rounds the battle wasn't going well and I retreated. That counts as a "win" for the rebels, so my friend played the objective card.

However, since Palpatine had retreated, he was no longer in the same system as where the battle was won. Does this mean that the card cannot be played? Or did the win effectively happen as Palpatine retreated, so that the systems overlap? Thematically, it seems to me like the card was valid, but I can see the arguments either way.

I'd say when the battle was occurring, it was in Palpatine's system, so that's what matters. It would be hard to word something more specific without it being rather lengthy.

If that was not the case, then the Imperials would generally want to make late-game retreats in Vader/Palpy's system, to avoid this card happening. If the battle wasn't going their way, they could just retreat, and this objective would be nearly impossible.

Except thematically, when you're playing "Return of the Jedi", Luke isn't zipping around in his x-wing. He has surrendered himself to be brought to Vader or the Emperor. So it doesn't matter if the fleet retreats. Luke is right there in the throne room on whatever Star Destroyer the Emperor has installed his swivel-throne in. Then he steals a shuttle when he's done.

"You have failed, your highness."

So reading the rulebook its clear that "a player wins a battle if his opponent does not have any units from the same theater in the system where the battle occurred."

I would read that that if the emperor retreats, you can't trigger rotj. That being said, if you wiped out his ground forces, you receive an opportunity to play rotj before he gets a chance to retreat his space forces. When you win is not defined so I believe its as soon as the above requirement is reached.

The objective title is 'Combat'. So you play the card during the Combat phase which in this case is at the end of the Combat. The RRG states winning a combat is when no opposing units of that theatre are left in the system due to retreating or destruction.

The objective title is 'Combat'. So you play the card during the Combat phase which in this case is at the end of the Combat. The RRG states winning a combat is when no opposing units of that theatre are left in the system due to retreating or destruction.

Ergo, Pallpy is dead!

The objective title is 'Combat'. So you play the card during the Combat phase which in this case is at the end of the Combat. The RRG states winning a combat is when no opposing units of that theatre are left in the system due to retreating or destruction.

You don't necessarily play it at the end of combat, you play it when you "win a battle". Based on how they define winning a battle, it is possible to win a battle in the ground theater and still have combat continue in the space theater.

That being said, I suppose combat has ended in the ground theater in my example above, so I suppose its about what you mean by end of combat. (I am not sure if we are in agreement or disagreement here)

Aren't combat and battle define differently in this game via usage?

I.E. - you have a "combat" made up of "space battle" and "ground battle".

And while I'll need to revisit the RB on the definition of winning a combat or a battle, if it indeed says wins a battle by wiping them or retreat then I say he's good!

Agree that if the rebels win the ground battle before Palpatine can retreat, the card should definitely work. As for the rest, it's ambiguous. Making things even more complicated, the rebels played Jedi Luke Skywalker and the card also states "If Luke Skywalker (Kedi) is in this system, eliminate 1 imperial leader in this system " (emphasis mine).

So my interpretation of everything, and maybe this is hypocritical, is that when Palpatine retreated, the rebels won a battle in Palapatine's system, even though Palpatine has since fleed it, so they do receive the two reputation points. However, Post winning, there is no imperial leader in the system, so the rebels do not get to eliminate Palpatine.

Does that make sense as an interpretation or should it be all or nothing?

No, I think technically, you would be unable to play it. It's all or nothing.

"Play after you win a battle in Darth Vader or Emperor Palpatine's system."If neither of those two leaders are in the system when you win the battle, you can't play the objective.

I'd guess FFG would rule that you complete the objective and get to kill a leader.

I'd like to rule that if he retreats, he's not in the system, and you can't complete the objective. If for no other reason that it makes an interesting late game tactic. You could push against Vader/Palpatine placements and force them to retreat from systems in fear of that card. They'd have to be more conservative with their placement. You could take two powerful leaders out of play by just being a threat.

However, if both Palpy AND Vader are in the system with the combat, at least one of them will be left.

Or better yet, if there's a death star present.

I do have to say if I was Imperials and the Rebs played that card after I retreated, I would have a hard time making an argument that no they did not win in Vader's system, even though raw it seems to me they wouldn't. I would feel bad about snatching a critical victory like that and we all want to see the Jedi Return.

Oh, you get your choice of entrees then. Dark and crunchy or white and pulpy. Koala, nice catch

Might as well add one more question on this one... For the Luke Skywalker (Jedi) bonus of eliminating an Imperial Leader, does anything change if Luke has been converted to the Dark Side? (This *almost* happened in a game of mine recently.)

By reading the card, I don't think it does. It doesn't say which side Luke has to be on to trigger the effect. But... can Luke eliminate himself as an Imperial Leader (a personal sacrifice after his dark ways)?

Oh my. Portmandia, I do like the way you think. Thematically it makes a certain ammount of sense, (heck, his dad sacrificed himself, so, why not). I think it depends on the wording of teh card, but, it could work. Not at home, so, my cards aren't in front of me right now. That would be a nasty surprise to the Imps.

p.s. Spoiler alert

I've seen that discussion before. I believe if Jedi Luke is converted to the dark side, you could still kill someone if he's in the system.

"Play after you win a battle in Darth Vader's or Emperor Palpatine's system. If Luke Skywalker (Jedi) is in this system, eliminate 1 Imperial leader in this system."

By the terms on the card, it's legal. Thematically it makes sense even. Rule of Two. Palpy would be trying to get him to kill Vader, Vader would be trying to get him to kill Palpy. Both would try to defend themselves, so Luke himself could get eliminated this way. Or you could view it as Luke committing suicide lol.

With this card does it need to specifically need to be Luke Skywalker (Jedi) or can it be used with Luke Skywalker?

In a recent game we decided that it needed to be the Jedi version, but I have just spotted the rule in the RRG that says "Treat Luke Skywalker (Jedi) as Luke Skywalker for all card abilities and action card restrictions"

I can see this working 2 ways, either the names are interchangeable in all rule interactions or that Luke Skywalker (Jedi) can be treated as Luke Skywalker, but Luke Skywalker cannot be treated as Luke Skywalker (Jedi).

With this card does it need to specifically need to be Luke Skywalker (Jedi) or can it be used with Luke Skywalker?

In a recent game we decided that it needed to be the Jedi version, but I have just spotted the rule in the RRG that says "Treat Luke Skywalker (Jedi) as Luke Skywalker for all card abilities and action card restrictions"

I can see this working 2 ways, either the names are interchangeable in all rule interactions or that Luke Skywalker (Jedi) can be treated as Luke Skywalker, but Luke Skywalker cannot be treated as Luke Skywalker (Jedi).

Luke (Jedi) = Luke

Luke ≠ Luke (Jedi)

Disregard what Stone said. He's only half right. You had it right. The manual is correct. Luke (Jedi) is still Luke (i.e. he can still do One in a Million) but only Luke (Jedi) works for Return of the Jedi. He needs to seek Yoda first.

Edit: Just realised Stone used the not equal sign, so he was correct as well (they look too similar in this font)

Cheers both, glad we got it correct

What happens if luke is captured in the system or in carbonite?

What happens if luke is captured in the system or in carbonite?

Captured leaders don't contribute to anything unless it's a mission being attempted against them. Return of the Jedi is not a mission attempted against Luke.