Anyone else feel the same way? We were discussing fastest ways to end game in www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp this topic and came up with several ways for orc player to win game in 2 turns and even if theoretical, it's still possible. I have not witnessed this to happen yet, but orc player can in many scenarios finish the game in under 5-6 turns, or earlier, (you can easily burn a zone in orc's second turn). In our plays dwarves almost never win against orcs (2x core set deck, see deck building for my topic) unless drawing a "god hand" at start and orc player a poor one.

I have yet to be able to make a competent dwarven deck against orcs. Empire deck wins rarely, Chaos deck sometimes with a decend starting hand. Almost any hand is a good starting hand for orcs. If they can't get anything build, atleast they destroy or use up resources from opponent.

I'm sure most people feel that Orcs are the strongest faction in the core set and the first battle pack gives them even more options to do amazing amount of dps in a short time. Orcs make me feel that this game should have "summoning sickness" so the opponent would have more time to respond to added dps.

It has gone up to the point that I refuse to play against Orcs unless I play with Chaos or we're playing a multiplayer game (not free for all).

There isn't that many cards in this game that I'm almost sure I haven't missed any big counter against them.

Orc player getting early Warpstone excavacations or a Grimgor's camp make me facepalm.

I've had 50:50 wins/losses with 3x Starter 3x Skavenblight Dwarves vs. Orcs, and this was with a non-optimised Dwarf build. I faced down a turn 1 6-power Spider Riders wednesday evening, and managed to stabilise the game. You just have to play the game very defensively, and realise that your top priority is to get enough power down to kill the units that are attacking your zones. Eventually the Orc player runs out of steam as all of their cards end up in the battlefield / as developments to prevent a Judgment, then you just the 3-cost 4-power while a zone is burning Dwarf and take out undefended zones / the battlefield in an attempt to force defense. Either Dwarf hero backed up with Stand Your Ground is pretty good at controlling them, and if you can get a Rune of Fortitude or two down its good times. Of course, I think this matchup is fairly dependent on opening hand, but I don't think at this stage in the game's life anything should be accused of being "broken".

I haven't tested Chaos against Orcs yet, but I think with a half-decent draw it should be managable; especially if the Chaos deck is running 3x BFTBG and Flames.

You do realize that Rune of fortitude gives no power symbols (and thus is pretty expensive in the early game for what it is) and it would require orc player to be stupid enough to attack there. The same goes against any other dwarven unit that's supposed to counter the attack. The only reason Chaos can win against orcs maybe 30%+ of the time (a lot lower for dwaves) is direct damage, seduced by darkness and such things that can keep the Orc swarm growing too much too quickly.

Sorry if I offend someone, but what the hell did the orc player do wrong to lose after getting 3 spider riders turn 1 against dwarves (this in the belief that the orc player was the second player, if he was first, wasn't that smart play, would've been better to play something to kingdom)? Did he attack a zone that already had a unit?

And to specify this a bit more: Any counter to an average orc start would require above average starting hand (dwarves need "god hand"). Above average orc start nearly impossible to counter (multiple warpstones, grimgor's camp, anything to give a lot damage to bf).

I think he meant that there was one spider riders that had 6 power. I don't see how anyone can defend against 3 spider riders first turn at present, so that'd be pretty crazy otherwise. From my limited experience it definitely seems like you need a very good start to destroy orcs, and if they get a great hand you're pretty much SOL anyway.

I'll resume my opinion about this topic to this statement : "With the current card pool, it is easy to build an efficient Destruction Swarm deck". Moreover, I found it easy to build a competitive Orc deck with 2 Core Sets, while my Dwarf deck clearly needs a 3rd to get its combos running. And I didn't attempt yet, but building Empire and Chaos decks would take a big help from that 3rd set too.

Personnaly, I like the Rune of Fortitude (and you have odds to play it for free with a Dwarf Cannon Crew) : it will limit the areas your opponent will be able to attack you at full strength.

Orc tends to offer a great firepower right from the start of the game. Not sure how to stop it, but the next few packs will probably offer tools to deal with this : Chosen of Tzeentch being a first reply to the "this unit gains X power while you control at least one damaged unit" orc bonus.

Orcs are great but i wouldnt say "Broken"
Chaos can beat them more often than not....
currupting Orc units stalls them long enough...

We have had 5 league nights so far and Orcs are the strongest faction without doubt. The main reason is that they not only hit fast and hard but unlike the other factions they also have a good answer to ANYTHING. Units (Vomit, Lobber Crew) or Support (Pillage, Grimgor), nothing is certain against them. The problem is that they dont have a weak spot.

We are still waiting for Skavenblight which will make things a lot better for Dwarves and will definetaly improve their chances against orcs.

Lafi said:

It was him going second, with a Spider Riders + Choppa x2. That one unit managed to inflict horrendous amounts of damage, simply because it hit so early in the game, but once you have a decent defending unit in the remaining zones, you just defend, take the hit and hope you can stabilise.

Its not just the Rune that helps (and I don't think its particularly expensive, as after 2 turns of attacking with one unit, your opponent either pays 2 or loses a quarter of a zone's HP worth of damage; that pays for the card especially as Orcs generally end up generating fewer resources than the Dwarves.) but its very easy to use it to funnel their attacks and would have definitely helped in the 3x Spider Rider scenario you just described a moment ago, forcing them to either lose 3 power per swing, or go into another zone where I'll actually have built a defence. It's all about buying time, not stopping the attack outright.

Orcs are brutal, and early game Rip Dere Eads Off + Thirster is usually a win coupled with a non-crap hand, but they're certainly not unbeatable. If I was going to accuse anything of being overpowered it's the above combo, but that's primarily because of the 'Thirsters ability to stop Master Rune of Valaya etc.

I don't think they are broken, I don't think any of them are broken, they all have strong tactics. I think Empire are quite good myself. Orcs are probably one of the easier factions which makes them more successful, punching someone in the face, kicking them while they are down and stabbing them over and over until you are really sure they are dead and then burning down their house with everyone inside of it are pretty easy tactics.

Swarm decks are powerful and easy to make, requiring only 1 core set and 1 battlepack. However, other deck options are also powerful when you have a pool of 3 core sets and 3 battlepacks.

Personally, I find swarm decks rather boring. I wouldn't say Orcs are broken atm, but they are powerful. However, if they fail to win in the first 5 turns, they often begin to stall and will lose.

Exactly, if you stall them you really take the wind out of their sails.

You can read my sig if you want. I do not believe any deck is "broken". It is the players/groups you play with and the lack of FAQ at the moment for the abilities of some cards that make things perceived as they are. I'm a 40k player too, so these types of discussions come up in any type of competitive game.

It does nothing to state "i heard this happened" when you didn't actually see it done. Let's keep to things we've experienced. I think the cards (and minimum deck builds) should prove out if someone can continue to wipe someone in 2 rounds there is something else wrong.

But you never know.

my wife wins with orcs almost every game, especially against empire. I almost dread playing them. But anything to get my wife to play with me.

*Doublepost Fail. See below*

Just had my first major tournament, and using Orcs it was a complete faceroll. I went 2-0, 2-1, 2-0, and this was with some questionable plays on my part. Match one versus Dwarves I pulled off a turn 3 win with: Spider Riders + Choppa + Spider Riders, then the following turn We'z Bigga into Boar Boyz. The only time the deck struggles is if a player manages to get multiple zone defenders down turn 1 (usually as a result of drawing the 0 cost Empire card) or finds a way around Bloodthirster + Rip Dere Eads Off, and even then its touch and go.

Rip Dere Eads Off is currently the biggest problem, but hopefully we'll see some stuff in the next few battlepacks to the stabilise the format, or the Orc Blitz will do some serious damage to this fledgling game's reputation. Both Rip Dere Eads Off, Spider Riders and Grimgors Camp should have been printed with at least 1 more loyalty, as I've just realised that Chaos has access to RDEO into Thirster as well, and could possibly benefit from it even more than the Orcs. For 1 resource it basically reads "Burn target zone unless your opponent has a trick (and there's not many tricks to stop uncancellable damage.)"

EDIT: Just doubleposted instead of editting. Fail

Orcs aren't broken. They just aren't. Orcs are the easiest race to build and play. Dwarf Turtle can completely stalemate them and a little Empire splash can cut the head right off their deck. Empire Marching Orders can completely disrupt the Orc Waaagh deck by moving units out of the battle field and using Counterstrike to break their charge. The Empire Infiltrate deck can also just burn right through their deck. Chaos Absolute Corruption can just shut down the Orc deck.

IOW every race can field a deck that can beat any Orc deck, without relying on a god hand, you have to know how to build it, how to play it, and understand what is necessary to break the Orc deck.

All that said, the Orcs easily have the fastest deck. No other race can get a win as fast as the Orcs. A fast win does still not equal broken. A broken deck cannot be beaten, and the Orc decks can. I'm willing to bet that when the Companion set comes out the decks that will be the hardest to beat will be Dwarf/High-Elf and/or Chaos/Dark-Elf. D/HE with massive heals, toughness, redirects and cancels and C/DE with their corruption, direct damage, and HP manipulation will be giving players nightmares.

I agree with Dormouse.