This came up in this (dreadful) ID discussion.

What are your ideas to implement the classic chess clock into X-Wing to speed up X-Wing?

What parts should be on the clock, which parts should not be on the clock and what time limits would you suggest?

Maybe you even have actually tried this yourself already and can talk about your experiences?

Would this be even feasible to speed up the game or is most of the time wasted on moving and dice and not decision making anyway?

While the clock idea seems interesting, some peoples minds just don't work that quickly on things.

There is a lot of special awareness needed for the game and sometimes you can do a dial and have to relook at it constantly and do mental math. some people can be very quick on this while others can't.

75 mins to complete a game Is pretty generous, I know some games go right to the end and I've had a few get very close to this time, but forcing a time limit on thinking time will make people make mistakes and actually I think be bad for the community as it may mean some players who enjoy the game but are slower then others will feel under increasing pressure which is never a good thing.

if someone thinks the other player is taking to long you can actually talk to the other player, we should be a friendly community (in my experience) and worst case talk to a TO

Who's hitting what clock while we're simultaneously setting dials?

This would be a disadvantage to players with many ships(swarms).

I feel the idea of chess clocks has merit. It hardly seems fair that, when a game goes to time, whose 'fault' is that it went to time matters for nothing. If my opponent finds himself constantly waiting around for me to set dials, decide on actions etc. the best he can do is report me to the TO for slow play. However, there is no measure or guideline for how slow is too slow, so every TO would rule differently.

The main issue with chess clocks however is that dial setting is done simultaneously.

This would be a disadvantage to players with many ships(swarms).

Interestingly, the slowest players I have seen are phantom players, not swarm players.

I feel the idea of chess clocks has merit. It hardly seems fair that, when a game goes to time, whose 'fault' is that it went to time matters for nothing. If my opponent finds himself constantly waiting around for me to set dials, decide on actions etc. the best he can do is report me to the TO for slow play. However, there is no measure or guideline for how slow is too slow, so every TO would rule differently.

The main issue with chess clocks however is that dial setting is done simultaneously.

I think the clock should be used only for dial setting.

The player with the most ships is the one setting the amount of time both players have to set their dials.

90 seconds + 15 seconds per ships sound good to me. If you didn't set all your dial during that time frame, your ship will do the minimum straight maneuver it can do. If for some reason you can't perform a straight (ex: a critical hit effect), your opponent choose the maneuver.

This would be a disadvantage to players with many ships(swarms).

Interestingly, the slowest players I have seen are phantom players, not swarm players.

well the thing with phantoms is how far ahead they need to think and the decloak is actually such a huge part of the phantom's play can you blame them?

This would be a disadvantage to players with many ships(swarms).

Interestingly, the slowest players I have seen are phantom players, not swarm players.

well the thing with phantoms is how far ahead they need to think and the decloak is actually such a huge part of the phantom's play can you blame them?

Yes I can. I actually asked my opponent in a tournament if he minded me pulling out my phone and checking Facebook. If I can do that while dials are being set, then the player needs to get faster.

Players have discussed it, off and on, for years. There are a lot of drawbacks and unanswerable questions: who's going to buy dozens of chess clocks for a large event? Once you have them, how often do they have to be hit? How do you handle the fact that some lists are much larger or more complex than others?

I'd venture to guess that the faster dial setting people are more experienced with the ships they are flying AND their opponents ships as well as are more comfortable not considering every option available to every ship on the table.

Chess clock in a physical game is generally a terrible idea though. Its expensive, it favors certain types of lists over others, and it adds an unnecessary layer of complication to the game.

YES!

That way it feels more like THIS:

And less like THIS:

Who's hitting what clock while we're simultaneously setting dials?

You'd need something that isn't a true chess clock, although I'm not sure it exists.

It would have a third button that starts both clock - so on 'dial setting', you hit that button and the clock is running on both players. When a player finishes his dials (all placed on the table and 'locked in'), he hits his clock and it stops. Obviously, he can no longer adjust his dials regardless of how long his opponent takes (although his opponent's clock is still running, so there is that).

Overclocked Agromech

During the planning phase, add two minutes to your game timer.

Players have discussed it, off and on, for years. There are a lot of drawbacks and unanswerable questions: who's going to buy dozens of chess clocks for a large event? Once you have them, how often do they have to be hit? How do you handle the fact that some lists are much larger or more complex than others?

Agree 100%, and would add:

What are we testing - play skill or play speed?

What would the ramifications be if you went over some arbitrary amount of time?

How do you manage effects that interrupt the normal flow of the game, like defender modifying attack or vice-versa?

Chess clocks work for chess because it is a symmetrical "my turn->your turn" game. More complex asymmetrical games with interrupts/modifications and non-standard turn structures make clocks terrible for games such as X-Wing.

I am all for calling out intentional stalling, but clocks are not going to help. They just introduce a whole other ball of stupid to the game.

YES!

That way it feels more like THIS:

And less like THIS:

I find it hilarious that the latter picture is of chess. The irony.

What are your ideas to implement the classic chess clock into X-Wing to speed up X-Wing?

Chess is a very different game. You have a finite number of moves with each piece and you only move 1 piece for each clock interval. With X-wing you have so many options and you must also account for things like barrel rolls and boosts when you plan maneuvers too. A chess clock makes no sense.

What parts should be on the clock, which parts should not be on the clock and what time limits would you suggest?

None - see above answer.

Maybe you even have actually tried this yourself already and can talk about your experiences?

No. Again see answer for question # 1.

Would this be even feasible to speed up the game or is most of the time wasted on moving and dice and not decision making anyway?

No. See #1 answer yet again.

I just don't think you can put a specific time limit on certain things and X-Wing is one of them. You'd have to take into account the number of ships a person has and factor in the number of ships the opponent has to determine what a reasonable amount of time would be. This really doesn't fix anything with ID, scoring or tournament structure/scoring either.

Trying to fix X-Wing with a Chess Clock is like trying to fix a fancy pocket watch with a hammer.

What are we testing - play skill or play speed?

What would the ramifications be if you went over some arbitrary amount of time?

How do you manage effects that interrupt the normal flow of the game, like defender modifying attack or vice-versa?

Chess clocks work for chess because it is a symmetrical "my turn->your turn" game. More complex asymmetrical games with interrupts/modifications and non-standard turn structures make clocks terrible for games such as X-Wing.

I am all for calling out intentional stalling, but clocks are not going to help. They just introduce a whole other ball of stupid to the game.

A few answers you could have come up with yourself for sure too.

We are obviously testing play skill in an more or less arbitrary limited amount of time. We do this apparently already or else the complains of stalling a game would not arise. In the already quite limited and easy to grasp environment of chess it already takes quite some time to process a few turns in advance. If you add the randomness of x-wing and the mathematical complexity of the game I would guess that most players are aware that you will take quite a lot of time if you want to consider all the possible options for several turns in advance and you have evaluate them with each turn. Calling for intentional stalling is in this context just as arbitrary as any other time limit.

As someone mentioned already, TIE-Phantom pilots usually take a good amount of extra time usually because of their cloak mechanic, even when they plan just the current turn.

There are already asymmetric strategy games which use such timing restrictions, someone else mentioned not with out base that you usually don't see them on physical games, because electronic games have no issues with them thanks to automatic dealing with movement, dice, and similar mechanical stuff while this might make things complicated with tabletops (good point really). Basically time limits on vassal would be really easy to implement, but on a physical game table things might be more trouble that it is worth it.

Besides any decent watchmakers tool set includes a watchmakers hammer, but this topic is unrelated to "fixing" X-Wing, tournament structures, etc … it just came up in a topic and I was interested to hear more on it. So far we got a lot of opinions and very little with substance. Outside of the obvious things like needing a clock that counts simultaneous for both players in the planing phase and the need to either count time for both players or not count time at all while executing the game mechanics.

...but I did provide substance. You just seem to discount it.

How much clock time would you provide to each player with the following builds playing?

1 - 2 ship vs 2 ship

2 - 8 ship swarm vs 8 ship swarm

3 - 2 ship vs 8 ship swarm

....etc

Certainly for the clock system to work and be fair to each player, they can't all have the same amount of clock time. In Chess, both players have the same amount of pieces and move exactly 1 piece each turn(other than castling).

There are far too many variables for it to be usable. You have to take into account the amount of the opponents ships as well as your own in planning time.