Looking for some advice on N'Dru Suhlak

By surly88, in X-Wing

I'm currently testing a list with two fully loaded Contracted Scouts, which leaves me with ~26-27 points to play with.

For sure I gave one of my favourite Scum ships a try ... Mr. Suhlak, fully equiped:

N'Dru Suhlak (17)
Lone Wolf (2)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Glitterstim (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 25

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I played the list against a friend and his imperials three times in a row yesterday, and even though I won all three matches, Suhlak was pretty much a liability tbh.

I'm rather new to Scum actually, just got into the faction with the current Wave, before I always played imperials and rebels. Therefore I haven't tried him so far but faced him a few times and always found him rather strong.

On paper he seems like a decent fit for the list actually. Combined with two Scouts you have a lot of ordnance for the first charge.

The problems become obvious though the more I played him ...

1 - against imperial aces, there's not much he can do. Soontir, Vader, Whisper, Inqui and Jax simply dodge out of arc or stay at range 3, where he's not really threatening. Omega may not be as good at dodging, but not being able to modify his rockets makes them pretty irrelevant.

2 - setup is pretty problematic actually. Setting up my Scouts on either side of the table is a great way to create a favourable engagement situation for them, however this would leave Suhlak somewhere in the middle of the table. Especially Soontir and other mobile ships don't really have a hard time getting there as early as turn 2, trying to shoot it.

Therefore I set him up on one side of the table and put the 2 Scouts directly next to him, so nobody can simply joust him. Suhlak goes fast, flying across the table edge, while the two scouts fly slow and roll at the table edge too. Before the opponent engages, you turn everything in and hope for a good shot. This gives me a Suhlak with no friendly ships in Range 1-2 to trigger his ability and LW, but since he is pretty far ahead and his rockets only have a short range, he probably won't threaten anything either.

3 - while he is great at killing stuff like a Omicron Shuttle, I couldn't think of a good way to get there. Since my opponent knew I would go for the shuttle if possible, he set up most rocks on the table side, where he wanted to start with his shuttle. This way I could have set up Suhlak there, but because of the rocks that side was pretty useless for my Scouts. Since I was afraid to set Suhlak alone into one corner of the table and the Scouts into the other, he easily denied me killing his shuttle for free.

4 - the usual triple Scout list tries to get torpedo shots with all three Scouts in the first round of engagement at all cost. The same is true for Suhlak and 2 Scouts, but compared to the triple version it feels like you're handcuffed and blinded. Getting both Scouts into Range 3 of my opponent and Suhlak into Range 1-2 of him while also being out of range 2 of my own ships is quite an achievment, especially if your opponent aware of what you're trying to do. I'm not sure he's the best fit for the list therefore.

I consider him much better actually in other matchups, but this is the only one I played so far, so everything else is basically just think tank.

5 - against lists with lower PS Suhlak probably performs better. However, considering which ships with lower PS are commonly played, it doesn't look so great anymore ...

Stresshog - he's probably decent here. Even the worst case, where he catches you in range 3 doesn't seem that bad, since you can aquire a TL anyway, and burn him away next round.

Triple-Uboats - if you can get a shot at him first round with Suhlak as well as both Scouts you're probably in a good spot. However that's a bit if, considering the above mentioned setup problems.

Fat Ghost - may be fine, may be not. If he runs TLT and want's to stay away from you, he probably can. On the other hand if he runs Autoblaster Turret combo you better hope he won't block you and pop you in one turn.

Brobots - honestly I can't see him perform here greatly. With them moving first they probably get a shot at range 3, the one where I aquired a TL boosts in and tries to block, while the other one simply shots the remaining hull off.

Dash - I have a hard time believing I can get range 1 or 2 shots with Suhlak here, even considering that I may gave him initiative.

TLT-Y-Wing - he's probably decent here, since he can almost one-shot of of the Y-Wings, which weakens their output by a lot.

Sure - I'm not considering the 2 Scouts in my list in most of the above scenarios, but since I just want to evaluate how much Suhlak contributes to the list I think it's fair.

So yeah, that's what I'm thinking about Suhlak so far. As mentioned I only have 3 games with him under my belt so far, so I'm far away from flying him perfectly. I'm just sharing my thoughts here and would really like getting some feedback, so I can consider testing him a few more games with that list, or better try him somewhere else.

Other builds I considered would be these, but I haven't tested them so far and therefore don't know how potent they are.

N'Dru Suhlak (17)
Crack Shot (1)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Cloaking Device (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 24

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N'Dru Suhlak (17)
Deadeye (1)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Glitterstim (2)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 24

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Thanks for reading and writing :D

Edited by surly88

One thing to consider,

While he may be a liability vs Aces (make sure you slow-roll him near the edge so he can't be flanked), he is an absolute monster vs low agi/fat targets.

The question then would be, which type of list do you see the most?

I've been running him as part of my Attanni Mindlink group and been running him as

Engine upgrade

Attanni Mindlink

Homing Missiles

Inertial Dampeners

which seem to have been having good effect even against arc dodgers

One issue is you have a ship trying to run ordinance that engages at closer range and wants to avoid the other two, faster, vehicles.

That's a very hard trick to pull off.

Homing missiles and crack shot might do you more good, even if it throws more power with the clusters. You can take the shot at extreme range, and they'll make soontir sweat too. ;)

He good. =)

Also, hotshot blaster is pretty nice.

Palob Godalhi (20)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Moldy Crow (3)
Torkil Mux (19)
Twin Laser Turret (6)
Kaa'To Leeachos (15)
Attanni Mindlink (1)
Concussion Missiles (4)
Guidance Chips (0)
N'Dru Suhlak (17)
Lone Wolf (2)
Cluster Missiles (4)
Glitterstim (2)
Guidance Chips (0)
Total: 100

Mindlink tons of focus for Palob start of game.
Ndru starts far on a flank. Bring in, cluster something, 4 dice with rerolls focus and chimps, should give you 8 hits.
The hwks and Kaato in a group, TL with Kaato on engage, fire concussion. Steal a token from Palob, regives it to palob. Palob also TLs.

I've had a lot of success with that N'Dru loadout of late, alongside two Contracted Scouts (although lighter Scout builds, as it's the 90 point iteration of an Escalation list). He can pack a huge amount of punch, and can be flown in such a way to be an annoyance and flanker. With Lone Wolf, he's notably more durable than a standard Z-95 so can afford to draw a bit of fire, and if people are shooting at him rather than the Scouts then that's actually quite a win in my book.

High PS is definitely an issue for that list, and N'Dru in particular, but I've been using him as a lure away from the Scouts, or another inconvenient firing arc to take into consideration if people go for the Scouts instead. Even if he's not shooting his missiles, he's still 3 somewhat modified red dice to take into consideration.

As for deployment, I've been going for something along these lines where I can.

NDru.png

This means that the distance between the Scouts and N'Dru opens up as they move, and you can then bank/turn in the Scout to start putting some coverage on the board while N'Dru skirts along your table edge until there's an opportune moment for him to start engaging. Obviously, this setup won't always be a good idea, and you'll need to respond to whatever your opponent does, but it does at least mean that you're opening up rather than immediately closing the gap between N'Dru and your other ships.

There's definitely challenges to flying N'Dru, but I've found there's a lot of potential there as well. I've killed TAPs and TIE Advanced with just his cluster missiles, and he continues to be a useful presence on the board even once his ordnance is gone.

I run N'Dru with Manaroo and Guri. The gals support each other and n'dru is set up by himself. This is a trick. Your opponent KNOWS the power of n'dru when he gets his full benefits. My opponents always charge right at him. This allows me to maneuver the gals more easily. 66% of the time I use him as bait rather then an actual flanker. However I've had some pretty great shots with him. One time he was starring down 3 btl4 ywings. (Opponent took the bait and charged him with full squad) I managed to fly past his leading 2 ywings, and proceeded to one shot his straggling ywing. Another game, my opponent, having played this list before, avoided n'dru at all costs. This caused him to suffer at the hands of the girls. And at one point I charged n'dru in, caused him to bump Manaroo (so he obviously wasn't getting his bonuses lol), and one shot Darth Vader. Ppl need to remeber, just because he wants to be a loner, doesn't mean he can't be a team player. Learn to use him as bait, force your opponent into maneuvering the way you want him to, and most importantly, learn when to keep him out or bring him in. A shot is a shot, might not be as powerful as it could be, but sometimes a mediocre shot is all you need to bring down a ship.

Thanks for the responses, especially thanks @Jarval, very helpful.

I'll try the list again today and see how it goes.

Two more things though ...

Are Cluster Missiles really the best option for him? I mean they are range 1-2, and at range 1 he can already throw 4 dice with his primary. Wouldn't an option like Consussion Missiles for Range 2-3 make more sense? Throwing 5 Dice isn't bad either.

Homing would work just as well.

Also, has someone considered and tested Cloaking Device as a valid option on him? At least on paper it seems to have some use.

Edited by surly88

I have played him as a flanker with mind link, Concussion missiles and guidance chips, he is used as a cheap distraction and if he gets his shot off no one wants a 5 shot missile that has a focus and up to 2 blanks as hits, even soon tur can't avoid all that most of the time

I tend to look on him as a psychological tool - he's one of the glass-cannoniest of glass cannons in the game, because he has to be all on his own to work, and... well, he's in a Z95.

So, if he gets his fully-modded 2x4-die giant super punch, grand, that's awesome, he's done his job, but he's mostly there to provide your enemies with a distinct no-go zone unless they can close with him and kill him before he can lock and shoot them. He controls where they can move, which you should be able to capitalise on.

Edited by thespaceinvader

I like to use N'dru as an Ace "deleter".

N'Dru Suhlak - Veteran Instincts (or Crackshot if you're confident in your maneuvering) - Homing Missile, Glitterstim, Guidance Chips - 25 points

That's an almost guaranteed 5 hits, with Evade tokens unavailable and possibly a defense dice cancellation with Crackshot. Worse than a Cluster missile against low agility, better against high agility.

I use a simiar setup to Narval, but start Ndru higher up into the map.

Turn 1 Move him forward

Turn 2, perform a 1 bank towards your own edge,

Turn 3 , makt a 2 or 3 turn back into the map. This gets you a favourable position imo, wih plenty of optins for later.

N'dru can be used to good effect vs aces. He is the best blocker in the game - because no one expects him to do that :)

I like to use N'dru as an Ace "deleter".

N'Dru Suhlak - Veteran Instincts (or Crackshot if you're confident in your maneuvering) - Homing Missile, Glitterstim, Guidance Chips - 25 points

That's an almost guaranteed 5 hits, with Evade tokens unavailable and possibly a defense dice cancellation with Crackshot. Worse than a Cluster missile against low agility, better against high agility.

This is what I was going to suggest, actually. I was thinking about this yesterday. VI will give you the PS bid to get you up to 9. Homing Missile boosts to 5 dice. They get no Evade. If you REALLY want to make that hit, then you go with Glitterstim. So, that's 5 dice w/ TL that you get to re-roll all of them. Focus is included. Oh, and then change one more die at the end. Chances are that you will be able to nail whomever it is you are firing at.