Hello fellow X-wingingers! I am relatively new to both X-wing and the forums. I really enjoy seeing what others have to say about the game. So I thought I would start a thread, and hear about one of the things I love reading about, players that cheat. NO! I don't want to know how you cheat, that's not what this is about at all.

In the games of X-wing you have played, for fun, tournaments, major tournaments, etc. What have you experienced, seen, thought you seen. That kind of thing.

Please, no naming names, or calling people out directly. Also, if you called them out on it, how was it handled.

I have found a group that I play with regularly, but have been thinking about trying a tournament, and I just enjoy hearing about people getting caught.

Thanks in advance!

-TheRaven-

There is no much difference between telling you how we cheat or how others cheated, don't you think?

In any case, one of the most glaring but sad cases for me was in a store championship. I was paired against a really young kid. I think he could have been just 10 years old or so.

His list included 3 Y-Wings and a T-70, and he was quite good at moving them so that I couldn't burn them one by one. The thing is that I had landed many damage cards on all the Y-Wings when the kid "accidentaly" pushed his damage deck with his sleeve into falling on top of his Y-Wing pilot cards. He said "oops, sorry" and proceeded to gather the damage cards back into the damage deck. Mysteriously, the Y-Wings had now 4 fewer damage cards on themselves.

The first time I didn't notice, because we were planning our moves and I was looking at my own dials (but my girlfriend did notice, as she was watching us playing). But it happened again at a later point and two more damage cards vanished back into the damage deck after another "clumsy accident".

By the second time, I was clearly winning the match already, and knew that the kid had lost all hist matches except one, and I didn't really feel for calling the TO and making him feel even worse. Also, I think his father was playing in the same tournament, and that could have led to all kind of domestic drama. We just finished the game after a while and he looked quite devastated by his 4th loss. I felt bad for him and was going to tell him to take it easier and just have fun with the game, instead of trying to win at all cost, because he actually flew quite well. But then I realized that while he was preparing for the next and final round, he had brought out another damage deck and was removing all the Direct Hits cards from his deck and replacing them with random other cards from the second deck.

To this day I still wonder if he was cheating so hard by his own initiative or by the pressure of not wanting to disappoint his father with more losses...

That made me realize that no matter how much I like this game or any other thing, I shouldn't try to push it to my kids, because you cannot totally know if they will play it because they are really liking it, or just to make you happy.

We have a notorious slow-player, while not cheating per-se, it bugs the hell out of me every **** time.

And yes, he plays tanky lists.

the only bad thing I had was the first time I went up against bossk I was not sure about his ability and misread it and he used it to cancel 2 crits into 4 hits to kill a ship

There is no much difference between telling you how we cheat or how others cheated, don't you think?

In any case, one of the most glaring but sad cases for me was in a store championship. I was paired against a really young kid. I think he could have been just 10 years old or so.

His list included 3 Y-Wings and a T-70, and he was quite good at moving them so that I couldn't burn them one by one. The thing is that I had landed many damage cards on all the Y-Wings when the kid "accidentaly" pushed his damage deck with his sleeve into falling on top of his Y-Wing pilot cards. He said "oops, sorry" and proceeded to gather the damage cards back into the damage deck. Mysteriously, the Y-Wings had now 4 fewer damage cards on themselves.

The first time I didn't notice, because we were planning our moves and I was looking at my own dials (but my girlfriend did notice, as she was watching us playing). But it happened again at a later point and two more damage cards vanished back into the damage deck after another "clumsy accident".

By the second time, I was clearly winning the match already, and knew that the kid had lost all hist matches except one, and I didn't really feel for calling the TO and making him feel even worse. Also, I think his father was playing in the same tournament, and that could have led to all kind of domestic drama. We just finished the game after a while and he looked quite devastated by his 4th loss. I felt bad for him and was going to tell him to take it easier and just have fun with the game, instead of trying to win at all cost, because he actually flew quite well. But then I realized that while he was preparing for the next and final round, he had brought out another damage deck and was removing all the Direct Hits cards from his deck and replacing them with random other cards from the second deck.

To this day I still wonder if he was cheating so hard by his own initiative or by the pressure of not wanting to disappoint his father with more losses...

That made me realize that no matter how much I like this game or any other thing, I shouldn't try to push it to my kids, because you cannot totally know if they will play it because they are really liking it, or just to make you happy.

I think it's important to call out obvious cheaters no matter their age. Do you think that they will get to 18 and suddenly stop? They need to be taught as quickly as possible that cheating is not the way to go. If this kid did win, all he would have learnt is that, "I can only win by doing X", not by getting better. Even in your comments you said he was taking the Direct Hits out, he was amping up the levels of cheatyness,

I dont mean get a bullhorn and scream in his ear, but TO's need to be informed of such behaviour so that the community can see that they will stop it when they see it.

Glad to see no one has mentioned ID's yet....

I used to play with my roommate, but he turned out to be a terrible cheater and a sore loser. The worst thing he did CONSISTENTLY was blatantly ignore obstacles. He would slide his ship into place, and push the rocks out of the way as needed. If I called him out on it he would throw a fit, then would proceed to accuse me of also moving rocks as I moved my ships. Despite the fact that my ships where nowhere near the rocks. He would also ignore firing arcs and ranges... Like I said, I USED to play with him lol

I am not playing X wing in tournaments. Only play with one friend once a week and we are still learning the game. I do see myself try a tournament some time should one appear close to where I live, but there are two things that has struck me related to cheating. The first one is manipulating the damage deck. Are the decks controlled at tournaments? If not all are controlled, do TOs check a sample of them? Or is manipulating damage decks not a problem in this game. If they are not controlled it seems like an easy way to cheat. I am not fishing for feedback on this to decide on whether I should do this or not. I am so bad a lying that if I tried to cheat everyone around me would sense that something is wrong. I have just been wondering if this is a problem or not.

The other thing is slow play. Is it a problem at tournaments? Is it common that people who have a decent points lead intentionally slow play? How long will they have to use on dials for you to call a TO over? 5 minutes? Less than 5 min?

I am not playing X wing in tournaments. Only play with one friend once a week and we are still learning the game. I do see myself try a tournament some time should one appear close to where I live, but there are two things that has struck me related to cheating. The first one is manipulating the damage deck. Are the decks controlled at tournaments? If not all are controlled, do TOs check a sample of them? Or is manipulating damage decks not a problem in this game. If they are not controlled it seems like an easy way to cheat. I am not fishing for feedback on this to decide on whether I should do this or not. I am so bad a lying that if I tried to cheat everyone around me would sense that something is wrong. I have just been wondering if this is a problem or not.

The other thing is slow play. Is it a problem at tournaments? Is it common that people who have a decent points lead intentionally slow play? How long will they have to use on dials for you to call a TO over? 5 minutes? Less than 5 min?

Usually each player let's the other player go through or 'cut' their deck before a game.

As for slow play, it's not really an issue most of the time.

Honestly, I've only played against one blatant cheater in three years of the game, it doesn't seem to be too prevalent, at least in my area.

Well, I'm notorious for bumping my own ships. I'm a clumsy clod. I'm terrible. I've even got little bumpers under my bases to keep them from being nudged so much. Whenever I do bump, my friends will laugh and claim I'm cheating. All in a laugh, but I thought I'd bring it up. The call me "The Swede" because of it.

At an SC this year I set up a Y-Wing to block Soontir, and as I was moving my other ships, I looked up and my opponent was changing his Soontir dial in his hand. After a few seconds of deer in headlights, he realized he got caught, noticeably turned his dial back to his original maneuver, and tells me "good block".

What's sad is I heard he did this to one of my league mates too...

Besides that experience he was a really pleasant guy. It's really disheartening when you learn who people really are.

The worst I've experienced is misunderstanding how card interactions work and forgetting to perform actions etc.

Hardly cheating.

I have faced one player who looked at his dial and then did a sneaky change and then I called him on it he acted like he didn't understand what I meant (language barrier). I thought about calling the TO but this was just a side tournament so I didn't bother since it barely changed the match outcome. This is the only time I caught someone cheat outright and obvious

Then I have played vs som slow players that try to stall for time when they are in a tight spot but might squeeze out a win on time if He takes 7+ mins to plan one ship. Never worked for them thought.

Also once or twice someone have either accidentally or deliberately managed to mix up numbered generic ships when it comes to dmg cards but mostly that happens in casual play.

Sometime someone place down a ship very very close to an asteroid and it's hard to tell if they touched the asteroid wihle the base was in the air before it locked into the pegs. Usually players have been honest in my area so I have always played on my opponents decision in such cases so I haven't had a problem.

Oh. We've had a few "whoops, my dial was opposite direction" too. Most of the time they just go the direction they put, sometimes it even helps them out.

It's all friendly games though, so there has never been a big deal.

I once put my dials down with the manoeuvres for the wrong ships.

omg that was bad I ended up in all the wrong locations.

my opponent said if I wanted to I could do the correct moves but I decided to keep with what I had and just see where it lead me. put me on tilt for the whole match :S

Never had an opponent cheat against me directly, thankfully. I have had new players think I was cheating with multiple action card interactions (PTL Poe with BB-8, Super Dash with Kyle, heck even FCS on occasion). Usually they get it after I explain it to them, but on one occasion I had a TO called over, who had to explain to a new player that Dash with Kyle can, in fact, green move, remove stress, get focus, then do a focus action.

It's not really cheating, but I have a couple semi-regular opponents who habitually declare actions after all ships have moved. Even though I give them friendly reminders and point out that in a tournament that wouldn't fly, it happens every game. No, Soontir cannot boost out of VI Poe's arc after Poe has moved...

And also, there are two players who still (after over a year) haven't caught on that upgrades with the Action: header need to be used as your action. Chiraneau boosts out of arc, when he shoots, "ok, expose gives him +1 attack."

Um...no...

Squad Leader is another fun one. "Ok, X pilot moves, does Y action, then gives an action to Z pilot."

Again, it's not cheating per se, but it's sloppy attention to the rules and cards and it gets frustrating, if I say something it throws them off their game and if I win it feels like I won because I was a rules lawyer. If I say nothing and I lose, it's sour for me. At a tournament though, all bets are off.

PS: I don't use stuff like Dash or Poe in friendly games against new players. If they have less than 5 games under their belt, I won't take it easy on them, but I won't play a list that breaks half the rules in the game, or one that can be supremely frustrating for a player who barely knows how target locks or red maneuvers work. Plus it helps me break out of my 2-3 ship lists and try something new. Nothing sharpens your formation flying skills like playing 5 Khiraxz against a player that you literally cannot predict.

At an SC this year I set up a Y-Wing to block Soontir, and as I was moving my other ships, I looked up and my opponent was changing his Soontir dial in his hand. After a few seconds of deer in headlights, he realized he got caught, noticeably turned his dial back to his original maneuver, and tells me "good block".

What's sad is I heard he did this to one of my league mates too...

Besides that experience he was a really pleasant guy. It's really disheartening when you learn who people really are.

I would have been straight to the TO's, cheating is never to be let go, it should be burned with fire until the witch is dead.

One thing people will do that is quasi shady is

declare "checking for target lock"....they grab the range ruler and pretend to measure for the target lock to a ship that is WAAAYYYY out of range, but what they are actually doing is checking range bands to other things that are in the same vicinity.

its a feint basically.....but since that is the time you are allowed to check a range....its easy enough to see what other ranges are while you are setting a range ruler roughly towards a target that is clearly out of range.

one thing i used to do as a newer player is if the asteroids are tight is....when deploying ships, i`d point the rest of the range ruler between rocks as i am setting ships to make sure they are range 1. that way I would know if i go straights into the asteroid field it will be between rocks.

not certain if thats even against the rules or not. but its not an issue once you get some experience it isn`t important to set ships up that way .

Well, I'm notorious for bumping my own ships. I'm a clumsy clod. I'm terrible. I've even got little bumpers under my bases to keep them from being nudged so much. Whenever I do bump, my friends will laugh and claim I'm cheating. All in a laugh, but I thought I'd bring it up. The call me "The Swede" because of it.

Ah, the good old fashioned "Carl Ashley Nudge" (yes, we have a name for it too).

Where you accidentally or clumsily bump a ship, only to then benefit from being in or out of range/arc/etc...

One thing people will do that is quasi shady is

declare "checking for target lock"....they grab the range ruler and pretend to measure for the target lock to a ship that is WAAAYYYY out of range, but what they are actually doing is checking range bands to other things that are in the same vicinity.

its a feint basically.....but since that is the time you are allowed to check a range....its easy enough to see what other ranges are while you are setting a range ruler roughly towards a target that is clearly out of range.

This isn't quasi shady, this is straight up cheating (FAQ under "measuring range"). Proving it is another matter entirely...

One thing people will do that is quasi shady is

declare "checking for target lock"....they grab the range ruler and pretend to measure for the target lock to a ship that is WAAAYYYY out of range, but what they are actually doing is checking range bands to other things that are in the same vicinity.

its a feint basically.....but since that is the time you are allowed to check a range....its easy enough to see what other ranges are while you are setting a range ruler roughly towards a target that is clearly out of range.

This isn't quasi shady, this is straight up cheating (FAQ under "measuring range"). Proving it is another matter entirely...

Perfectly legal.

yeah...by quasi shady........thats what i meant.

I`ve seen it happen...i have.....felt.....that this is whats going on but....

it`s pretty darn difficult to pin it down.

i just end up contorting my face and thinking...." huh,thats shady."

yeah...by quasi shady........thats what i meant.

I`ve seen it happen...i have.....felt.....that this is whats going on but....

it`s pretty darn difficult to pin it down.

i just end up contorting my face and thinking...." huh,thats shady."

It's not shady, it's how the rules work.

It's no more shady than getting +1 die in range 1 or whatever.

It can be done in a way that's cheating (e.g. measuring all round the ship, rather than closest point to closest point on the ship you're attempting to lock, or measuring range to all ships then choosing one to lock, or whatever, none of which are how the action works) but as long as you do it correctly, it's entirely rules-legal, and a good way to glean some extra information about the game at the potential cost of an action and a lock you didn't want, if you judged the range incorrectly.

One thing people will do that is quasi shady is

declare "checking for target lock"....they grab the range ruler and pretend to measure for the target lock to a ship that is WAAAYYYY out of range, but what they are actually doing is checking range bands to other things that are in the same vicinity.

its a feint basically.....but since that is the time you are allowed to check a range....its easy enough to see what other ranges are while you are setting a range ruler roughly towards a target that is clearly out of range.

This isn't quasi shady, this is straight up cheating (FAQ under "measuring range"). Proving it is another matter entirely...

Perfectly legal.

You declare the intended target of a target lock. Then you measure range (rules reference guide). When you measure range for a target lock, you measure range to the intended target and ONLY the intended target (FAQ under "measuring range").

IF there is a ship directly between your ship and the intended target of the target lock, then yeah, you are gonna find out the range band. However, you certainly can't sweep the range ruler all the way around your ship. I would even argue that once it's clear that a ship is out of range, you should immediately pick up the range ruler, and not leave it down to gauge distance to other ships.

And anyway, how hard is it to gauge 4/8/12 inches? L2 spatial awareness, noob.

(Part of this post is tongue in cheek, but the core idea is that, no, doing this is not "perfectly legal")

Edit: stupid autocorrect

One time at a tournament, my opponent pushed his ship about 2 inches past the end of his maneuver template as I turned my head to check the match clock. I suspected he did earlier but I wasn't sure. BUT this time, I saw it and my blood boiled. But during the combat round, my red dice obliterated him and I won the match.

I shook his hand and said "good game" and paused then I told him this is the last time I take my eyes of the mat during a tournament. He smiled then frowned and left on a hurry- he even scored a dice bag but never got it.

Once I was accused of slowplay when my oponent took about 3-5 minutes to move and take actions... but he would rush me through my turn. He would always ask for my next ships dial reveal before I made an action. I told him that I would like 10-30 seconds per ship to take actions. He scoffed and threw his hands in the air. And he played so **** slow, but I really didn't care because we had plenty of time left. When it was over he told the TO and other players. The regulars at this LGS knew his tactics well and told me that is just the way he plays. I never saw him again.

My opinion: If someone cheats at X-wing, they probably cheat in other aspects of their life. Shameful.