As I don't yet have the WFRP3 this seems like a quite a stupid mission. But I was immediately frustrated by the landscape character sheet presented. So with a little whiskey and nothing to do a started with a new sheet with couple of points:

1) I trust that my players can keep their cards in order without "sheet slots" so I dropped them

2) I wanted to include Stress and Fatigue as slider in the manner of Deadlands

3) Somehow I have always liked one-sided sheet (though currently this seems little crowded)

4) I tried to follow the layout of WFRP2 for easy access and reading

5) I planed to follow the plan of this sheet: http://www.goblin-online.net/download/csheeta2.jpg

This is still WIP. So all ideas and opinions will be heard.

Whoa! That's nice! I mean, it needs a few field adjustments, but wow... My players will love this!

A nice watermark, maybe like the old armor silhouette would be welcome. I'd kick up the stress and fatigue meters to 10 (just in case).

Perhaps make a 2nd page (for the back) for misc equipment and other information from the old sheets (my players keep a kill record sometimes).

If you move the misc equipment, you might make the 'Wound Threshold' area big enough to actually lay your wound cards on (without them getting in the way).

Great work. If you could, add some sockets from the career card so those things don't have to be on the table (to get soaked with coke).

jh

NezziR said:

Yeah. The Fields. They should actually just point out the a rough position of the boxes. I'm not going to leave them like that. Also I might be ditching the blackness for the sake of lighter printing.

I think the armor might be a tricky thing to add as I'm not so good with a pen I kinda wanted to not use any "stolen" property. But something along the line might be a right way to go. The meters will go to ten (I just went with 5 because I had no idea how much would be necessary.

I'm planing to do second page with all those "achievements" and such. But as that'll be actually quite easy and not necessary I just want to finish this one first.

As for the cards I've no idea why they should be "added" to the sheet. For now I'm going with that not being necessary. They can easily be added to the borders like Fatigue and Stress though.

Thanks for comments! Any other are all welcome too while this is still WIP.

doc_cthulhu said:

Check this one out Doc:

Shadowspawn's Character Sheet

As you can see, he didn't name them, he just made anchors that say 'TALENT'. That keeps them generic so any talent can be socketed there.

Both look really cool - I still wait until my FLGS gets my copy; things are kinda slow in my little country ... I will follow doc's example and enjoy more whiskey in the meantime

No more whiskey today... I ran out. Anyhow I managed to spend few hours with the sheet and the goal can already be seen. I still think this as WIP mostly because of the notes and equipment boxes. I'd like to put a paper-doll picture for armor there but my not-paid artists are currently starting their weekend and informed me that "some stupid paper-doll can wait".

Aaaaanyway here's what I've done to day. Gimme comments and ideas as I really really want this to be one sided sheet (with additional page 2 coming possibly).

Great work thus far doc.

One typo: "Current Careet"

That is a most excellent character sheet so far. I'm loving it

Typos I can see so far:

Under Characteristics - Intelligence

Current Career up the top

Also I think the money conversions are wrong, I'm not 100% sure on that though.

But all up, fantastic!

NezziR said:

How much do you hate your players!?!

This is really nice Doc! Thanks!

morskittar said:

It's love, not hate, he's pushing them to the limits to get what is best of them

And hell yeah, beautifull this character sheet is

Just try to add more fatigue and stress (in case some sneaky player increased his stats over 5), and try to fit some power and wounds meter somehow (maybe throw out this big Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay from above, it takes some precious space, move talents up, and add power meter below them).

Very awesome! Just a note, the text at the bottom (with the symbols) doesn't print very well in black and white. At least it doesn't on my Cannon laser. It's almost like the white border around the letters is taking precedence.

If you replaced the symbol notes (which won't be used after the 1st or 2nd games) with a blank puzzle piece track (froo made some blank outline pieces), then you could use your stance tracking token on the sheet itself and free up those tracking pieces.

Also, if it were me (read this as 'if I had any skills in this area'), I would move the equipment and notes to the back and leave that area to put wound and condition cards on. It's about the right size for 2 side-by-side cards the same size as the wound and condition cards.

Great work so far. The only issue I see is that you don't have enough room to write you're weapons and their special qualities down. I'd need to see the actual print out though to be sure.

Good comments! Thanks for that! Replies:

@Sunatet - I knew if forgot something! Thanks mate! How big of a track would be needed for Power and Wounds?

@Nezzir - As I known something about my own players I know that they would loath the idea of keeping the character sheet and the cards "organized". As I also believe that there are others out there thank think so too I'm trying to keep this sheet "attachment minimum" (Possibly even ditching the "talent-slots"). The items and notes boxes are going to the backside as it seems I just have to make it. I still think I'll keep it really simple so that there's really no absolute need for it as all the that there really will be are the boxes.

@Shadowspawn - Good point. I already wondered while working but I forgot about it. I'll see what I can do.

I think I might be able to post a draft of the first page as a pdf tonight.

Also - What do you think about the "ragged paper"-boxes? In or out? One of my players said he would like it more if they were just plain and simple boxes.

doc_cthulhu said:

For wounds no idea, but if You remove top "Warhammer Fantasy Roleplaying Game", bottom dice reference, and move everything a bit down, then You can fit there even 3 rows of numbers (21-24 wounds should suffice for any power player).

For power probably a bit more than stress/fatigue, as you can be over the edge (more than 2 times of WP score), I would say 15-18 should be more than enough (for advanced characters that invested in WP).

Would be good to extend Fatigue and Stress to 12 or higher if there is enough space (I assume, that some day one of my players will take this advance, and raise his characteristic to 6, or even more)

Okay. I think I'll take the "dice key" of so I can move the talent-slots there and have the right side open for wounds and power.

doc_cthulhu said:

I would leave the talents on the right side, because if You put them at the bottom, the character sheet will go further intto the center of the table as it will require some space at the bottom (and the talents will be in place where player usually keep his hands, and they can easily fall out of the table), better move them a bit higher to the top, put power below them, and wounds at the bottom (if markers fall of the table it won't do much harm, and wounds can be marked with a pencil).

Money Conversion is wrong. 25 brass = 1 silver, 100 silver = 1 gold.

You'll also want to fold skill training and specialty back into one box on the advances sheetThere's a rules-specific reason why they're on one line.

And finally, consider drawing a line between the physical and mental skills, so we can more easily tell which are affected by fatigue and which are affected by stress.

arscott said:

****. I've no idea what you're talking about. Should REALLY have the books before making a brand new sheet! If I understand it right you mean that each "trained" check gives you a speciality? That would be seriously hard to include in a clear manner. Also the official sheet puts trainings and specialities in different boxes (if I'm right about what you mean).

NezziR said:

This also somewhat confuses me. Isn't this covered with the Stance Advancements-box? If not so that could be a good thing to add.

All other advices are taken in account and the thing is almost done. I still need the paperdoll for armor for the front page (anyone up to draw it for me? As I know I wouldn't be happy with some crap drawn by myself). Second page is half way through but I think I won't be finishing this today. Tomorrow seems much more likely.

So is there still some ideas? For example what to include on the second page? Currently the second page includes: insanities, critical wounds, friends, enemies, notes, equipment and money.

doc_cthulhu said:

Well, there are really two aspects to the stance tracker (though they could easily be folded into 1). The first is, your default stance tracker build, or configuration (including additional pieces you may purchase throughout your career). It's marked on your sheet as a reminder of how to build your physical stance tracker each session. The second is the actual stance tracker that you track your stance on during the game.

When playing, you have a small stance tracker, made from the puzzle pieces in the box, that sits over your character sheet where the GM and other players can see it. When you alter your stance, you move the piece (and consequently alter the way you use the cards). It serves a second purpose as a 'turn marker'. The tracking token may be flipped over to indicate you have taken your turn this round.

What I was suggesting is that you put a long tracker across the bottom (or top) of the sheet, one that could be colored in according to your current track build (eliminating the need for an entry on the sheet just show what pieces you've purchased and have available), that could be used to track your stance (with the tracking token) and indicate your turn status (if you've gone or not). This would further condense the play area, eliminating the need for a floating stance track, and freeing up more pieces for the GM to build whiz-bang trackers.

It's just an idea, not telling you how to build your sheet - it's looks amazing and my players love it!

Edit:

Here's an example:

On the back of the sheet (bottom, left side) you see an entry called 'STANCES'. You fill in the boxes to show how many stance track pieces you have available to you (from your current career and from purchases).

In this picture (over the character sheet, on the left) you can see the actual stance tracker, built according to the marks listed on the back of the sheet.

What I was suggesting is that both of those things could be combined with a fixed stance tracker at the top of the page and the tracking token you see (in the 2nd picture) could just be placed on the sheet. Instead of marking the spaces (like on the back of the sheet), you could just color in the spaces and put your token on it.

Okaaaaay! Now it makes a whole lot of more sense and seems a lot more practical than build the track every time. I'll see what I can do. It seems like the best idea would be to have the puzzle pieces at the top or the bottom of the sheet and check boxes over/under them. This would easily indicate the maximum amounts and still give the possibility to use a paper clip (or the game marker) to track the stance.

Seems though that they should be big enough for GM and other players to see when needed. I'll see what I can do. PDF out tomorrow.

Nez, great idea putting the stance meter on the char sheet. All totalled, we've reduced: stance meter, fatigue/stress, & talent sockets. Non-crit wounds could probably be tracked instead of having a stack of cards if you really wanted reduction.

jh

doc_cthulhu said:

There's a post by Froo where he made some blank puzzle pieces. Froo is a really cool guy, I'd be he wouldn't mind if you used them - ask him, it would save you some trouble.

All totalled, we've reduced: stance meter, fatigue/stress, & talent sockets. Non-crit wounds could probably be tracked instead of having a stack of cards if you really wanted reduction.

Yeah, that was the reasons for my suggestions. A lot of people claim they would be happier with out so many 'bits'. Though I love all the little pieces (and they are much easier to manage once you play a few times and work out your own system), I've always been of a mind that it would be easy to design a sheet that eliminated most of them (or freed them up for other uses). Doc's showing that you really can.

That was the reason behind my suggestion to make the wound section the size of a card. That way, you could just stack the wound cards on the sheet - further condensing the play area. Same with condition cards. Two spots on the sheet that size gives you a place to stack the cards.

If you look though, say at picture 2 in my post above, even spread out it doesn't take up much more room than a standard character sheet. But, with a sheet like the one Doc is making, and a clip board, you could play in an easy chair instead of having to sit at a table.

Okay. So that we're clear. Is there really REALLY need for the add-on cards. I'm all about bits and pieces but as I'm positive that fan sheet will surface with all the right pieces in a right place I would like to build this one as an alternative to all "place this at the center of your cards".

Mainly (if I'm right) I'm seeing that talents and conditions are something (with possibly along the wounds) that you just have to have as cards. I'm right?

In the latest version (not seen anywhere) I reduced the "Talent slots" to one named "TalentS" to make up room. There's currently enough space at the main side to house these wound and condition cards (if they're the same size as skill/item/etc. cards in Arkham Horror) but if there's a way around them I would like to use that option.

Mainly because I've just never played really around the table. It's all easy chairs and "anywhere you can find a place" for us.

You could do away with (the little) cards all together if you write stuff on the sheet. The (larger) action cards would be a little tougher - they have a LOT more info on them. You could put them in a plastic card sheet if you wanted them to act more like a sheet of paper.

Little cards in this case are wounds, conditions, insanities, and persistent miscast results. Little cards would also include talents and career abilities (I think that covers them).

You just need enough space to record what's happening. Personally, I'd keep wound and condition cards. These are temp conditions and could change a lot. Most miscasts are usually resolved right away. Talents and career perks are long term. Insanities are also more long term.

Any temp effect, like conditions, wounds, crits, or anything else that goes away at the end of the combat could be stacked in a 'conditions' and a 'wounds' pile. Long term things, like insanities, career perks, talents, and long term injuries could be wrote on the sheet. That way, you're never handling cards more than the length of a combat.