So a Uboat is a Jumpmaster with Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Extra Munitions, Protons and Guidance Chips. Some run two with Protons, and one with Plasma to get the points right.

PILOTS

Contracted Scout (33)
JumpMaster 5000 (25), Extra Munitions (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), R4 Agromech (2), Deadeye (1)

Contracted Stats are Stats are 3 ,2, 2, 5, 4 focus, target lock, barrel roll.

Imperials have Tie Punishers.

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (31)
TIE Punisher (23), Fire-Control System (2), Extra Munitions (2), Proton Torpedoes (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Punisher Stats are 4,2,1,6,3, focus, target lock, boost.

Analysis:

So from a stats perspective, Punishers are down one agility, but up one pilot skill. Shield + Hull is 9 for both. They both have target lock, focus, and a movement ability.

You can load a Punisher with Fire Control System (same as Agromech), Extra munitions, Protons, and Guidance Chips. The only thing you miss is Deadeye.

the Tie Punisher has a much worse dial, but is small and can fit through more items. they also are two points cheaper, meaning you could add in two 3 point ordinances for 4 ordinance shots with extra munitions.

Similar Enough to be feasible?

Discuss!

The lack of deadeye, pwt, and that second evade make a big difference. The punisher may be a hard counter to a das boot list, but probably wont fair as well against ace-wing.

The Deadeye/R4 synergy is just so good. FCS helps, but I don't think it's quite as good. Also, I think you forgot the fact that the Scouts have PRIMARY WEAPON TURRETS. that is huge. All that being said, I would definitely fly this TIE Punisher list.

Not really, and deadeye is the key.

Agromech + deadeye means that you can pick your target during the shooting phase, and then hurl a fully modified attack in that same first round.

FCS sets you up for *next* round... And against jumpmasters, with 1 agility, I would not at all count on having all three ships intact. So you end up throwing your first salvo with only chips+proton mods... Which isn't bad per se, but also no better than what a TIE bomber or Y-wing can achieve on the first shot.

This analysis says nothing about your odds once the torps are gone, either.

I think the rebels are probably closer with Y-wings and dorsal turret.... the big big big advantage is the excellent late game of the uboats with their turrets (especially on a big base)... and of course deadeye it might be good against uboats directly because of the pilot skill but it will struggle if the initial attack doesn't destroy anything and against other lists than the wolfpack

*Ninja'd of course... never really have to bother with answers on this forum, I just keep reading

Maybe something like this, the sensor jammer may make up for the extra evade die.

The tracers give you a fighting chance to have a modified torpedo.

I would still really like the points for some bombs, as that would help with aces, but I'm not sure where to make it happen.

Worth a play or three though.

http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v4!s!145:44,136,126,143,-1,-1,-1:-1:25:;145:44,136,126,143,-1,-1,-1:-1:25:;145:44,136,126,143,-1,-1,-1:-1:25:&sn=Unnamed%20Squadron

So a Uboat is a Jumpmaster with Deadeye, R4 Agromech, Extra Munitions, Protons and Guidance Chips. Some run two with Protons, and one with Plasma to get the points right.

PILOTS

Contracted Scout (33)

JumpMaster 5000 (25), Extra Munitions (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), R4 Agromech (2), Deadeye (1)

Contracted Stats are Stats are 3 ,2, 2, 5, 4 focus, target lock, barrel roll.

Imperials have Tie Punishers.

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (31)

TIE Punisher (23), Fire-Control System (2), Extra Munitions (2), Proton Torpedoes (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Punisher Stats are 4,2,1,6,3, focus, target lock, boost.

Analysis:

So from a stats perspective, Punishers are down one agility, but up one pilot skill. Shield + Hull is 9 for both. They both have target lock, focus, and a movement ability.

You can load a Punisher with Fire Control System (same as Agromech), Extra munitions, Protons, and Guidance Chips. The only thing you miss is Deadeye.

the Tie Punisher has a much worse dial, but is small and can fit through more items. they also are two points cheaper, meaning you could add in two 3 point ordinances for 4 ordinance shots with extra munitions.

Similar Enough to be feasible?

Discuss!

Gamma Sq. Veteran ? Higher Ps Lower life and cheaper, sort of hard counter maybe?

Gammas + Jonus.

Ninja'ed by Sithborg, but I'll elaborate:

The day Imperial Veterans comes out, this list ought to be rather popular:

Captain Jonus — TIE Bomber 22
Adaptability 0
Fleet Officer 3
TIE Shuttle 0
Ship Total: 25

Gamma Squadron Veteran — TIE Bomber 19
Deadeye 1
Extra Munitions 2
Plasma Torpedoes 3
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 25

Gamma Squadron Veteran — TIE Bomber 19
Deadeye 1
Extra Munitions 2
Plasma Torpedoes 3
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 25

Gamma Squadron Veteran — TIE Bomber 19
Deadeye 1
Extra Munitions 2
Plasma Torpedoes 3
Guidance Chips 0
Ship Total: 25

[NINJAED ABOVE BY A BETTER BUILD!]

PILOTS

Gamma Squadron Veteran (25) x 4
TIE Bomber (19), Deadeye (1), Extra Munitions (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Guidance Chips (0)

Stats are exactly the same except you have 4 small ships for a total of 24 life (rather than the Jumpmasters 27), 3 Jumpmasters would be 2 Proton Torpedoes and 1 Plasma Torpedo for 11 dice, Bomber squad would be 12 Plasma torp shots.

Why put a Fleet Officer on Jonus instead of Torpedos? He cannot add to the alpha strike and everyone else can focus already?

For some reason, I feel drawn this direction.

points

PILOTS

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (34) TIE Punisher (23), Fire-Control System (2), Extra Munitions (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Concussion Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Black Eight Squadron Pilot (34) TIE Punisher (23), Fire-Control System (2), Extra Munitions (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Concussion Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)

Captain Jonus (31) TIE Bomber (22), TIE Shuttle (0), Decoy (2), Hull Upgrade (3), Intelligence Agent (1), Fleet Officer (3)

I too really like the Gamma Ace/Jonus list above.

Why put a Fleet Officer on Jonus instead of Torpedos? He cannot add to the alpha strike and everyone else can focus already?

Everyone else spent their focus token to fire the torpedo. The double focus lets them reroll and use Jonus' focus.

Why put a Fleet Officer on Jonus instead of Torpedos? He cannot add to the alpha strike and everyone else can focus already?

Everyone else spent their focus token to fire the torpedo. The double focus lets them reroll and use Jonus' focus.

What about, instead of dropping deadeye on all the bombers, putting thread tracers on Jonus? That way, you get the same advantage of the bombers not having to lock their target during their too-early activation (they can focus instead)...but they still end up with a target lock for weapons that can benefit from it. Deleting the deadeye from all the bombers lets you put two thread tracers on Jonus and still have the points needed to put the full version of VI on him. (And then, I guess, put adaptability on the rest of the bombers, because why not?)

+1 for Gamma Vets.

Punishers are distinctly meh.

Why put a Fleet Officer on Jonus instead of Torpedos? He cannot add to the alpha strike and everyone else can focus already?

Everyone else spent their focus token to fire the torpedo. The double focus lets them reroll and use Jonus' focus.

What about, instead of dropping deadeye on all the bombers, putting thread tracers on Jonus? That way, you get the same advantage of the bombers not having to lock their target during their too-early activation (they can focus instead)...but they still end up with a target lock for weapons that can benefit from it. Deleting the deadeye from all the bombers lets you put two thread tracers on Jonus and still have the points needed to put the full version of VI on him. (And then, I guess, put adaptability on the rest of the bombers, because why not?)

...or, heck, drop the other bombers down to generics, now. Something like:

3x Scimitar Squadron Pilot (25)

TIE Bomber (16), Extra Munitions (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Cluster Missiles (4), Guidance Chips (0)

1x Captain Jonus (25)

TIE Bomber (22), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), XX-23 S-thread Tracers (1), Veteran Instincts (1), Guidance Chips (0)

...bombers focus, Jonus uses thread tracers to give them TLs to fire their torpedoes (or missiles, range depending) and then lets them reroll anyway by proxy. Might be worth dropping two of the bombers down to prockets instead of cluster missiles in order to give Jonus extra munitions, perhaps...depends on how long you expect to keep everyone alive.

+1 for Gamma Vets.

Punishers are distinctly meh.

Publishers are in a weird position- I think they're perfectly fine for the points- except that they're so expensive you end up spending too much of your list on them. In (say) a 500 point game they'd be seeing more play.

Well, you may as well go Gammas with Homing Missiles, GC and EM. One more PS, three less health overall, more munitions shots (on paper) than JM but still needing to grab that TL and nowhere near the blocking or possible support crew.

This bomber talk is hot, but let's get this back to Punishers.

Two builds:

Black 8 Squad 33

Extra Munitions

Homing Missile

Accuracy Corrector

Guidance Chips

Or

Black 8 Squad 33

Extra Munitions

Cluster Missiles

Fire Control System

Guidance Chips

The first build let's you keep your target lock for accurate pounding at range. One you are out of munitions, you grind then down with accuracy corrected fire while using your boost for position or focus for defense. If you get a range 1 shot, you don't have to use the AC.

The second build gives you three faux Redlines. It might even be worth it to go Long Range Scanners over Chips in order to get a focus on the much more dangerous range 2 alpha strike. FCS helps out the second attack on the clusters.

Since Punishers have no reliable way to get focus AND target lock on the same turn, I'd go with long range scanners on them.

FCS is a great upgrade but it really works best on ships that like to trade meaningless shots at range 3, and pound the enemy at close range the following turn. If using a long range missile or torpedo, the TL from FCS won't come until after you've had your opportunity to fire.

The only way to get that beloved TL in time for the range 3 engagement is with scanners.

Unfortunately no, the EPT on a low pilot skill ship makes the most out of deadeye, plus all the bonus tokens for atacking with salvaged astromech is what carries that torpedo build.

Since Punishers have no reliable way to get focus AND target lock on the same turn, I'd go with long range scanners on them.

FCS is a great upgrade but it really works best on ships that like to trade meaningless shots at range 3, and pound the enemy at close range the following turn. If using a long range missile or torpedo, the TL from FCS won't come until after you've had your opportunity to fire.

The only way to get that beloved TL in time for the range 3 engagement is with scanners.

Jonus and Fleet Officer makes a nice substitute.

Biggest difference is lack of turret. Once the punisher dives past his target, he has to U-turn around and sac his action a turn in order to keep doing damage.

The jumpmaster doesnt care. More often than not, if something darted past him its either almost dead, in range1 anyway for his main weapon turret which is almost as good as protons (keyword, almost).

Ive ran the imperial "uboat" before i even knew what the hell a uboat was. I just noticed that at range3 i can basically auto-kill anything that isnt a large ship, and put some hella damage on a large ship. Often, it takes me several turns before i can even get the shot off due to the targetlock requirement and much faster ships darting past me during that deadzone time where theyre too far to targetlock after my activation, but too close my next activation to use the targetlock i got once they were in range.

Other glaring issue is the cost. U-boats are way way undercosted for what they do. That u-boat is 2pts more expensive than a punisher, has the Deadeye utility which is insanely strong on ordnance users, and has a fallback turret weapon while the punisher has nothing. Get within 1 of a punisher, odds are its no longer a threat for at least 3 turns. U-boats? They still got a 3dice turret.

Ive tried multiple times to do this with a Tie Bomber because Major Rhymer nullifies the range problem and has access to Deadeye. Problem is hes 33pts with the U-boat loadout and doesnt have R4 obviously and is a little squishier. Issue i find is finding something else to put with him lol. Im always sitting at 90pts with no upgrades left to buy, and none i can shed for a cheapo tie fighter.

Ive also tried using the Shuttle for table-long targetlock dumping onto the bomber/punisher. Too pricy to bring him basically for long range scanners lol...

Also find it pretty ass that the budget u-boat has access to elite cards, when the majority of budget ships dont. Punishers dont have it period and bombers only have it on name ships.

The Biggest difference between Punishers and Toilet Seats is the difference between FCS and Agromech. Agromech trades the focus for a target lock, allowing for a near 100% chance of 4 hits while FCS puts the lock back after the attack.