There is no perfect ship for all applications, rather there is a perfect fit for the fleet you are building at that time.

The MC30 Assault Frigate is a ship I am trying to get some kilometres out of at the moment, I like the idea of redundant defense tokens, good shields and black dice as a threat or opportunistic attack. It also has a slightly wider side arc and is therefore a good choice in an Ackbar fleet or as a threat to Demolisher. I am also finding that the MC30 works with every commander, whereas the AF tends to benefit from a smaller set of commanders. The MC30 is fast and reasonably maneuverable, so it can keep a ship with no red dice at distance slightly easier than an AF, and that speed allows it to remain in formation with a wider range of ships.

On the other side of things the AF has Squadron and can command squadrons that the MC30 cannot. It also has a better hull and can survive a little better. The MC80 being significantly slower and off the MC30's sweet spot of speed 3 can make the AF a better choice for being in a fleet with an MC80.

AT the tippity top excruciatingly skilled meta, where someone is skilled enough to run a true 5 ship raider clonisher build... are mc30s still cutting it?

I blew up a clonsiher demolisher with my mc30, but that's cuz he had only 3 ships, and i was able to fire my shrimp after he closed the distance before he did the double and triple taps.

I haven't got to run a Mon Mothma torpedo fleet yet, but I'm looking forward to using her with both titles on two torpedoes. Last time I played I used a pair of TRC90's and the way it came out the black dice on a scout would have come in really handy. That was my first time using Reiken

Mon Mothma with torpedo frigates and the titles is amazing. Utterly amazing. She brings out the most in both titles. Admonition can close to close range, still force a re-roll with an evade, and then jettison that same evade token to cancel. Foresight is just an annoyingly slippery bastard. I love the hell out of those ships with Mon Mothma.

I am with you. Torpedo frigates with Mon Mothma are just a ton of fun to fly. And if you are able to dodge dangerous arcs well enough, a lot of times evades on Foresight and Admonition with the toss can mitigate more damage than a brace.

I love my torp frigate with Redundant Shields, APT, OE, and XI7s... with Mon Mothma as my Fleet Commander. It is my heavy hitter.

AT the tippity top excruciatingly skilled meta, where someone is skilled enough to run a true 5 ship raider clonisher build... are mc30s still cutting it?

I blew up a clonsiher demolisher with my mc30, but that's cuz he had only 3 ships, and i was able to fire my shrimp after he closed the distance before he did the double and triple taps.

In the rebel vs imp matchup you describe (5v5), if both players are similarly skilled then it will come down to who is first player. A Mon Mothma fleet going first with 2 MC30's is more than capable of blowing Demolisher and friends back to the Stone Age. Raiders just can't stand up to MC30's in black dice range.

I love both ships to be honest - AFs and Mc30s and I usually base my Rebel list around one or both of these two ships.

In answer to the OP reffering to the two kinds of mc30s I massively prefer the Scout over the Torpedo, even in "Brawling" circumstances.

In fact, as some of you guys may (or won't) remember, in the last Vassal team tournament I used a Scout and a Torp in syncro so that the Scout went in first before the torp moved in to finish.

But, I just get the feeling that the potential damage output with a Scout is better as it can match the Torp for damage at max range even if it rolls two blanks ( with TRC) and it is most likely to be greater than a Torp's damage output (even if there is less chance of brace-blocking with an accuracy).

It has better range capabilities than the Torpedo and, although it is more expensive, you do find you get what you pay for. I find it works nicely with Mothma (although the torp does equally well but it has to get closer in to do serious damage).

Also, if you miss-activate your torpedo frigate (I do this quite frequently with my lists on Vassal) where once you were gloating over the possible 6 or even 7-8 damage you end up staring at 0-2 which isn't much good as you've probably missed your best chance of the game to do any serious damage. I think that The Torpedo Needs the init or it just isn't worth the points. It did next to nothing in my first Team Vassal game cause it just couldn't get close enough in in time and hold itself there (although it killed off a MottiVsd in the second but it missed out killing an ISD for the very same reson I metioned above (the ISD moving out of black range) and it was only due to Hyp Assault).

The scout however can reprieve you partially with its TRCs and its ability to stay at long range and use Ackbar and Foresight to perfection(or not, it depends on your skill with the dice ). In the situation above it may sneak 4 damage in with TRCs.

Don't get me wrong, I love both Mc30s but my current favorite is the Scout.

In the end I kinda think it all boils down to how many points you're willing to spend on upgrades and/or on the ship itself, and how much experience and skill you have with these fast, hard-hitting, but fragile ships.

I have actually changed my list (20/20 Vision 2.0) to include a nice Init bid, and dropped the Torpedo for another Scout.

I may have dragged on quite a bit, been repetitive, and generally been a nuisance to all the guys who are more knowledgeable about this subject than I.

I apologize for that.

^This

I'll add: The Torp loves being 1st. The Scout does too, but not quite so much.

AT the tippity top excruciatingly skilled meta, where someone is skilled enough to run a true 5 ship raider clonisher build... are mc30s still cutting it?

I blew up a clonsiher demolisher with my mc30, but that's cuz he had only 3 ships, and i was able to fire my shrimp after he closed the distance before he did the double and triple taps.

I think i may try this ship tonight.

I played my Pirannah list last night against my acclaimed buddy. I subbed in a scout frigate for one of the torpedos. I have to admit, it performed very well. But you pay for that long range/short range versatility. It's also a ship that needs and loves upgrades. (ordnance experts and TLRC both serve it well. And when you have that many black dice, you need something to trigger a crit effect right?) So the ship comes in very expensive (for me, 91-92 pts (OE, TLRC, APT, + AP or ECM) For that price I could commit myself to a pretty beefy AFMK2 A and have decided long range advantage, and better control over my squadrons.

Really, I think you can't go wrong either way. I'm of the opinion that MC30's and AFMK2's are by far the strongest ships in the rebel fleet. Both chassis for both ships are good. The Torp is dedicated to close range, the AFMK2 (either chassis) is dedicated long range, and Scout is versatile enough to play in either zone, without being fully dedicated to either (although, eventually you want to bring your black dice to bear). I think Scout is also paired well with a cheap CR90A. 3 red dice from the scout is not enough shooting in one round to really do anything to your opponent. Having another 3 reds from a corvette will actually bring down shields on a hull zone and let your MC30 torps in the next round put a hurting on that ship in the following round.

I love both ships to be honest - AFs and Mc30s and I usually base my Rebel list around one or both of these two ships.

In answer to the OP reffering to the two kinds of mc30s I massively prefer the Scout over the Torpedo, even in "Brawling" circumstances.

In fact, as some of you guys may (or won't) remember, in the last Vassal team tournament I used a Scout and a Torp in syncro so that the Scout went in first before the torp moved in to finish.

But, I just get the feeling that the potential damage output with a Scout is better as it can match the Torp for damage at max range even if it rolls two blanks ( with TRC) and it is most likely to be greater than a Torp's damage output (even if there is less chance of brace-blocking with an accuracy).

It has better range capabilities than the Torpedo and, although it is more expensive, you do find you get what you pay for. I find it works nicely with Mothma (although the torp does equally well but it has to get closer in to do serious damage).

Also, if you miss-activate your torpedo frigate (I do this quite frequently with my lists on Vassal) where once you were gloating over the possible 6 or even 7-8 damage you end up staring at 0-2 which isn't much good as you've probably missed your best chance of the game to do any serious damage. I think that The Torpedo Needs the init or it just isn't worth the points. It did next to nothing in my first Team Vassal game cause it just couldn't get close enough in in time and hold itself there (although it killed off a MottiVsd in the second but it missed out killing an ISD for the very same reson I metioned above (the ISD moving out of black range) and it was only due to Hyp Assault).

The scout however can reprieve you partially with its TRCs and its ability to stay at long range and use Ackbar and Foresight to perfection(or not, it depends on your skill with the dice ). In the situation above it may sneak 4 damage in with TRCs.

Don't get me wrong, I love both Mc30s but my current favorite is the Scout.

In the end I kinda think it all boils down to how many points you're willing to spend on upgrades and/or on the ship itself, and how much experience and skill you have with these fast, hard-hitting, but fragile ships.

I have actually changed my list (20/20 Vision 2.0) to include a nice Init bid, and dropped the Torpedo for another Scout.

I may have dragged on quite a bit, been repetitive, and generally been a nuisance to all the guys who are more knowledgeable about this subject than I.

I apologize for that.

Yeah Vips rebel fleet is a Scout Frigate, Torp Frigate, Salvation and Raymus Taintive with Tycho, Han and Dash under the watchful eye of Rieekan....

Yeah Vips rebel fleet is a Scout Frigate, Torp Frigate, Salvation and Raymus Taintive with Tycho, Han and Dash under the watchful eye of Rieekan....

I still dont have a lot of experience against rieekan. I get the counter but he can be a tough nut.

I still dont have a lot of experience against rieekan. I get the counter but he can be a tough nut.

Rieekan is legit. He's seen as a newbie-crutch (and to some extent he can function that way) but he's got a lot of depth to him and he's very underrated. Getting the most out of his ability requires a lot of building around and playing around, though, and it's not the kind of thing you can just throw together and pilot well the first time (or two, or three). He activates a lot differently due to his ability and it can really mess with the other guy's plans. My Screed fleet I won the Adepticon tournament with struggles the most against Rieekan, hands down. He clogs up my landing zones with zombie ships, he sneaks bombers through my fighter screens, he doesn't let me escape retaliation by blowing up ships (the zombie ships get their revenge on the way out), and he uses his own activations shenanigans against my first+last activations shenanigans.

Plus he's great with MC30s (to bring it back around).

I still dont have a lot of experience against rieekan. I get the counter but he can be a tough nut.

Rieekan is legit. He's seen as a newbie-crutch (and to some extent he can function that way) but he's got a lot of depth to him and he's very underrated. Getting the most out of his ability requires a lot of building around and playing around, though, and it's not the kind of thing you can just throw together and pilot well the first time (or two, or three). He activates a lot differently due to his ability and it can really mess with the other guy's plans. My Screed fleet I won the Adepticon tournament with struggles the most against Rieekan, hands down. He clogs up my landing zones with zombie ships, he sneaks bombers through my fighter screens, he doesn't let me escape retaliation by blowing up ships (the zombie ships get their revenge on the way out), and he uses his own activations shenanigans against my first+last activations shenanigans.

Plus he's great with MC30s (to bring it back around).

Can you give us the scariest Rieekan list you've thought of or faced? I want to try one. And I think I want to start by seeing what others have found first.

Also, tips on flying it would be nice.

Can you give us the scariest Rieekan list you've thought of or faced? I want to try one. And I think I want to start by seeing what others have found first.

Also, tips on flying it would be nice.

I've played a substantial amount of Rieekan and had pretty good success with him. I went 3-0 in our FLGS last Tourney and placed in the upper half at Adepticon (i was the one flying the fleet Snipafist talked about in his writeup thread about the Rieekan fleet). All of that was said not to sound like a pompous oaf, but more that i know what i'm doing with him.

For reference, it's this:

Rieekan Squadrons Final

Author: geek19

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 399/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)

- General Rieekan ( 30 points)

- Adar Tallon ( 10 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

- Leading Shots ( 4 points)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)

- Yavaris

- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51 points)

- Salvation

- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)

1 Wedge Antilles ( 19 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

1 Nym ( 21 points)

2 Scurrg H-6 Bombers ( 32 points)

How it all goes together? Rieekan makes character aces and ships live longer, so i maximized those. He LOVES Nebulon titles (having playtested it, TRC ALWAYS on Salvation. Such a facepunch, with this crit=2 hits showing up every time. SO MEAN. Yavaris loves the double tap, but more importantly, Nym loves the triple tap. You sail the MC80 up and throw out squadron orders. One of those ends up being Nym, who gets the move and shoot, and then Adar Tallon says hes not sleepy. Because of ALL the premeasuring you can do, you can put Nym RIGHT where you want him for the Yavaris double tap. So yeah, 3 activations of Nym in one turn, hoping for that crit. That specific reason is why Snipafist refers to Nym as a war criminal. Luke and Wedge provide either support/protection for Jan or they act as black dice bombers as needed.

The objectives are also all awful. Adv Gunn is there because yup, mc80. Let me shoot twice! Fire lanes exist because having read shmitty's blog, the Salvation usually acts as a trailer and clocks what i need to from a distance. Having Salvation and Yavaris both pointing at the Fire Lanes stack along with the MC80 riding up the side (Fire Lanes: the rebel version of Contested Outpost) is almost a guaranteed 90 points. PLUS! Even if you get tabled, Rieekan keeps you alive to STILL juice those Fire Lanes points! Plus, im usually hoping people drift into my range as it is, so i'm very happy to be 2nd player. Superior Positions exists to nerf Snipafist's fleet, as i was expecting many more clontrooper fleets. I was... incorrect, haha.

In one game at Adepticon, i had Luke and Wedge run in and engage a Rhymerball. They engaged it enough that my other ships and bombers were able to blow up the 2 victories the guy brought. The Salvation punches SO FAR above its weight class, it can get scary. Yavaris doesnt have the intense damage, but its super good at double tapping scurrgs.

As for advice on flying it? Squadrons orders. Multiples of them. Start turn 2 with Yavaris and the MC80, repeat ad nauseum. Salvation is a trailer, keep him back and clock what needs to die. And keep milking Fire Lanes points (i got, iirc, 195 points from it my first game at Adepticon? Its pretty nice, haha!). The zombie ships dont need to activate until they need to activate. Keep other stuff alive by moving it first if you have to?

Im working on one with 3 MC30s at the moment, i;ll try it tonight. Let's see how that horror is!

Can you give us the scariest Rieekan list you've thought of or faced? I want to try one. And I think I want to start by seeing what others have found first.

Also, tips on flying it would be nice.

The thing with Rieekan is I think he allows a lot more fleet archetypes than any other commander. To my immediate recollection, you can go with a few types of Rieekan:

1. Squadrons Rieekan, rocking lots of zombie-able aces (really annoying with Jan + bomber aces and Escort X-Wing aces) and relying on Rieekan to keep your carriers ticking even if the other guy is trying to table you.
2. MC30s Rieekan, where the idea is you're running 2+ MC30s and Rieekan gives you an extra zombie turn of unloading your black dice of awful. Normally when a black dice ship gets blown up before it can activate you think "man, this sucks!" but with Rieekan that's amended to "well, that's not great but it probably means I'm in a good position to blow some sh*t up!"
3. CR90 ram-spam Rieekan. Just lots of Engine Techs and CR90s headed straight towards enemy ships to ram them to death while zombies. It's janky, but it can work.
4. "Generic Rebels" Rieekan where the idea is you're running a bit of everything and you want Rieekan as backup insurance. This is the more newbie-style Rieekan build but it's all right.

You can go with one of the above types and then flavor it with a dash of the second but that's still a lot of combination possibilities.

My buddy geek19 responded (above) with the fleet I'm used to sparring with. Rieekan does a few things for his fleet:

• Wedge and Luke can go zombie if necessary and tie up lots of other squadrons while their friends make a getaway.
• Wedge loves to activate last as a zombie to clock an enemy squadron for 6 blue dice on his way out.
• Jan Ors persisting for the rest of the turn even once reduced to 0 HP is extremely annoying and she will spend her Braces recklessly to keep other squadrons alive once that happens.
• Nym will persistently keep coming after you and will continue even in the turn he gets zombified.
• Yavaris can/will get into the thick of things and keep Squadron commanding the bombers. Yavaris rarely survives but can usually last until turn 4 or 5. Because of Rieekan, Yavaris can just kind of wait it out on its killed turn to get in a solid double-tap with squadrons on the way out and still shoot at everything.
• Nebulon-Bs in general have synergy with Rieekan because they like to joust (head towards their enemy targets) and then if they get zombified they can step on the gas (Navigate token) if necessary to end their turn in a really inconvenient spot, clogging up landing spots, obscuring attacks, and causing enemy ships to ram them. Very annoying.
• If Salvation gets turned into a zombie, that's when TRCs go from "front only" usage to "double tap, I don't care" usage and the Salvation can get in a serious slap on something on the way out, often ramming it as well.

I'm not sure I can state with any certainty that it's "the best" Rieekan fleet ever, but it's a pretty good example of a squadrons Rieekan fleet. I've heard of people running Tycho with Rieekan to good results as well but my friend has yet to experiment with Tycho.

In the game I was just talking about an ISD got behind one torp and cooked it, then had to ram it. Later when it activated it shot up a VSD then rammed a 2nd one before dying at the end of the turn. Would have rather had the ship alive, but if you make a mistake the zombie effect makes it not hurt so much.

PLUS! Even if you get tabled, Rieekan keeps you alive to STILL juice those Fire Lanes points!

I hadn't realized this before! I had a game were someone said the end of round happened after the status phase, but the way I see it, and from the FAQ it does look like you would stick around for the points!

I disagree with that assertion.

All the FAQ states is that the Game ends at End of Game round, rather than immediately when the ships are "Destroyed" (Which has already been Modified to 'Status Phase' rather than 'Immediately' due to Rieekan)...

Despite the presence of the FAQ, the Ships are Destroyed in the Status phase, and the Status phase has to End for the Round to end... (Because "a Round consists of the Following Phases" wording of the Manual). And when the Ship is destroyed, it is removed from the Table, etc, etc.

So it just means for a certain amount of time there - the time incidentally, between the Status Phase and the End of the Round - you have No ships on the Table. This also happens to be the time (or just before the time, depending on wording) that you would be measuring to check the Fire Lanes... So no, Rieekan's destroyed Ships are not there to be measured from...

So no, in my view, Rieekan will not allow you to stick around for Fire Lanes.

The tricky part of the Question, is wether the Other Player is allowed to Check for Fire Lanes points in the instance taht he has destroyed all of his opponents ships, since "Game Ends at the End of the Round" and "Check Fire Lanes at the End of the Round" happens at the same time...

I just played with two Scout Frigates today. Interesting ship. Got one killed pretty fast, but the other stayed alive....somehow. Ackbar, on the other hand....

Holy crap, man....

I had thought that way as well Dras, but there is no "end of round" phase, one could argue that the "end of round" and "end of status phase" are one and the same. And Rieekan does specifically say "end of the status phase."

I had thought that way as well Dras, but there is no "end of round" phase, one could argue that the "end of round" and "end of status phase" are one and the same. And Rieekan does specifically say "end of the status phase."

I can see your point, but I still assert that the Status Phase has to End before the Round can End. I guess that is the lynchpin of the argument, and the FAQ hasn't specifically stolled it out or not.

But I mean, I call them as I see them as a Judge/Marshall for Hothgary... The fact that I'm often wrong is what stops me from being a Guru, and I'm always happy when I am corrected

Edit:

I've also kicked it off to Rules... I'm still waiting on a few answers as it is, so I feel bad for having added to the pile - but has to be done, I think

Yeah, it needs to be clearified, since I can also see it either way.

I always feel better when a rules discussion with conflicting points is Civil Thank you, JJs