Anyone else have any more ideas?

Don't be afraid to make yourself known and promote yourself on generic wargaming groups and 40K groups. 40K is still the largest wargame around, and since it contains a huge number of players, it also contains a huge number of people who play more than one game. Tap into those people who have Armada as a 'side' game and get them involved.

Also don't be afraid to use sites like Reddit. Reach out to your cities subreddit and see if anyone is interested or knows someone who might be interested.

Fliers in local shops and related shops (comic shops, video game shops, etc) might be a good way to reach people as well.

Fliers in local shops and related shops (comic shops, video game shops, etc) might be a good way to reach people as well.

That's what Snipafist have put up in our FLGS. I'm not sure how great it's going, but we did get at least 1 new guy in our league that we started last week. Hopefully more this week.

And I'll add that in. Creating a League (potentially with prize support, if your FLGS is willing. Even some small amount of store credit or bragging rights or a thrift store trophy might be worth it) so your players have a REASON to come play there at the store helps somewhat too. If we can get enough interest and players, we're debating a Battlefleet Gothic style Campaign league, with story and narrative and such. But that's at least 2-3 months down the road, AT THE EARLIEST. Which also lets me point out that friendly and enthusiastic is good, scaring away the new guys is bad (i may be guilty of this, but i'm working on it....)

If you're going teaching games, i will say that MC80s and ISDs are cooler looking than CR90s, just based on my opinion. Snipafist can make them Raiders dance, but I think we all fear the might of this fully armed and operational battle station Imperial Star Destroyer. Until my MC80 shows up!

I'm not sure if it exists already as I'm too lazy at this late hour to do a proper search, but when i was a brand new player, what i was looking for was the cheapest possible somewhat competitive 400 point list i could buy... tack on to that a well laid out, detailed plan for how to fly said list, and i think that would do a lot to help new players ease into the pool... right now it feels like diving into the deep end without a life jacket, then putting yourself at the mercy of the lifeguards... luckily for me i was promptly plucked out of the water, no mouth to mouth required(thank god!), then handed a pair of water wings and shown the way to the kiddie pool... but i am the sort of person who will put myself out there and take risks... for those who are a little more reserved, meeting a new player base can be incredibly daunting... throw on top of that the entry price without even knowing if what you're buying is good or not, or how to play it, and i imagine that is more than enough deterrent would be newcomers...

The play style of the environment accounts for a lot too. This gets into that 'Casual" versus "Hardcore" attitude that I am NOT going to start a debate on here. The stores in the area I live in are pretty much inundated with hyper competitive players. That can be a bit off-putting to some new players trying to get into the game, or those of us who really aren't into the tournament scene.. I've heard the "try and set up a new group" quote a few times when this is discussed. While nice, it doesn't always work out that way.

But I digress. If you do take the time to get to meet some folks, you do eventually find a play group.

The play style of the environment accounts for a lot too. This gets into that 'Casual" versus "Hardcore" attitude that I am NOT going to start a debate on here. The stores in the area I live in are pretty much inundated with hyper competitive players. That can be a bit off-putting to some new players trying to get into the game, or those of us who really aren't into the tournament scene.. I've heard the "try and set up a new group" quote a few times when this is discussed. While nice, it doesn't always work out that way.

But I digress. If you do take the time to get to meet some folks, you do eventually find a play group.

The gaming group I'm going to evangelize in is, to try and put it diplomatically, "weeded". Negativity and crappy attitudes are very explicitly not welcome and I hear a couple of members have been encouraged to, um, seek other venues to play. I think this will be a good incubator for an Armada community as most of the people in the group already play a variety of table top games in a fun, friendly manner and they run themed events.

I think the first tournament we run will be held in conjunction with another event and it will mean 30 or 40 sets of eyeballs on the game while its being played in a tourney setting.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

The play style of the environment accounts for a lot too. This gets into that 'Casual" versus "Hardcore" attitude that I am NOT going to start a debate on here. The stores in the area I live in are pretty much inundated with hyper competitive players. That can be a bit off-putting to some new players trying to get into the game, or those of us who really aren't into the tournament scene.. I've heard the "try and set up a new group" quote a few times when this is discussed. While nice, it doesn't always work out that way.

But I digress. If you do take the time to get to meet some folks, you do eventually find a play group.

The gaming group I'm going to evangelize in is, to try and put it diplomatically, "weeded". Negativity and crappy attitudes are very explicitly not welcome and I hear a couple of members have been encouraged to, um, seek other venues to play. I think this will be a good incubator for an Armada community as most of the people in the group already play a variety of table top games in a fun, friendly manner and they run themed events.

I think the first tournament we run will be held in conjunction with another event and it will mean 30 or 40 sets of eyeballs on the game while its being played in a tourney setting.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

The gaming group I'm going to evangelize in is, to try and put it diplomatically, "weeded". Negativity and crappy attitudes are very explicitly not welcome and I hear a couple of members have been encouraged to, um, seek other venues to play. I think this will be a good incubator for an Armada community as most of the people in the group already play a variety of table top games in a fun, friendly manner and they run themed events.

I think the first tournament we run will be held in conjunction with another event and it will mean 30 or 40 sets of eyeballs on the game while its being played in a tourney setting.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

Good. It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. A new player getting tabled by a neckbeard is a good way to discourage that new player from ever playing again.

Good. It's a game. Games are supposed to be fun. A new player getting tabled by a neckbeard is a good way to discourage that new player from ever playing again.

Agreed, although I feel it's pertinent to note that some people have fun when they're presented with a challenge and therefore will want to compete at a high level to have the most fun. They will reliably crush newer players if they end up playing them but they generally avoid playing newer players unless playing them is a necessity because they realize the outcome is already decided before the game even starts and the game won't offer a challenge. I've seen players of this stripe crush newer players but maintain a pleasant atmosphere during the game and give LOTS of good advice to the newer player and allow them to take back moves, etc. The end of the game is still the same - the better player just smashes the new guy - but the new guy learns a lot and feels welcomed into the community rather than dejected. I've been really inspired and assisted by this type of player and I like to hope I'm paying it forward by behaving in such a fashion myself (but it's difficult to be completely objective about oneself). The short version here is the competitive player derives satisfaction from challenging games against good opponents and will try to raise the skill level of his companions to create more challenging games for him/herself in the future.

The unfortunate fact, however, is that there are a number of players who derive satisfaction only from winning, regardless of whether it is a challenge. These types of players are basically bullies and tend to seek out newer players specifically because winning against them is easy. Bullies don't offer advice in games, even casual games. They don't help guide newer players into the game. They just want to exploit new players' lack of experience and ANYTHING that helps the new player "catch up" is a threat to the win rate of the bully, so the bully obviously doesn't help others in that regard. Bullies are poison for your meta and to its growth. They turn off new players and create an insular environment. Don't be a bully. Don't put up with bullies. Your meta will be better for it. The short version here is bullies only care about winning and have no interest in improving the skill level of their opponents because it decreases the odds of them winning in the future.

I feel it's important to note that while both of these types of players could be called "competitive" and "focused on winning," they are that way for different reasons and they seek out different kinds of opponents due to those reasons. I occasionally see people lump them together and I feel it's doing a disservice to the former. That's all. I don't necessarily feel that MrTopHatJones was doing so, but it wasn't completely clear to me; I've seen conversations on competitiveness get pretty ugly due to this distinction not being made and I'd like to avoid that if possible.

It is our responsibility as a gaming community to police our player base. A player who is causing friction or worse, harming the enthusiasm to play the game; needs to be dealt with in a constructive manner. However, I am all for the shunning part if the behavior continues. I've had to do this with myself a few times in other games. That's about the time I realized that being competitive and in the competitive environment was not for me at all. I don't want to "Lest Test" for nationals or something, I just want to play. It's tough in my area to find like thinking folks.

It is our responsibility as a gaming community to police our player base. A player who is causing friction or worse, harming the enthusiasm to play the game; needs to be dealt with in a constructive manner. However, I am all for the shunning part if the behavior continues. I've had to do this with myself a few times in other games. That's about the time I realized that being competitive and in the competitive environment was not for me at all. I don't want to "Lest Test" for nationals or something, I just want to play. It's tough in my area to find like thinking folks.

Just as long as we don't start throwing the "B" word around. (Banning). I'm sick of banning. There is a proper way to socially maneuver these things to get the desired result. Let's be sympathetic to the fact that even the mean bully who only wants to win is probably the product of much bullying, rejection, abuse, etc. Not saying 2 wrongs make a right, but we all come with baggage and damage. The key word above is "constructive".

luckily for me i was promptly plucked out of the water, no mouth to mouth required(thank god!), then handed a pair of water wings and shown the way to the kiddie pool... but i am the sort of person who will put myself out there and take risks... for those who are a little more reserved, meeting a new player base can be incredibly daunting... throw on top of that the entry price without even knowing if what you're buying is good or not, or how to play it, and i imagine that is more than enough deterrent would be newcomers...

I should add. We had an Established League going on, with people playing Fortnightly - and this guy just shows up with his ships one day and asks if someone could give him his first "real game" (I believe that is what he said...)

He then promptly Beat me. I wasn't going easy... Only one piece of advice given at the very end which turned (what was going to be a small loss to me) into a fairly substantial loss...

Kid's got Talent.

Or rather, I suck at Competitive Play, it seems

Just as long as we don't start throwing the "B" word around. (Banning). I'm sick of banning. There is a proper way to socially maneuver these things to get the desired result.

In general I think banning someone should be a last resort. It should still be a tool in the social toolbox, however.

Let's be sympathetic to the fact that even the mean bully who only wants to win is probably the product of much bullying, rejection, abuse, etc. Not saying 2 wrongs make a right, but we all come with baggage and damage. The key word above is "constructive".

The bully may be a product of a tragic background but the fact is that once he's been given a chance or two to mend his ways and doesn't, nobody is obligated to tolerate him out of some misplaced sense of empathy. He's making the scene worse for everybody else and making new players in particular miserable. An assumed tragic backstory doesn't excuse that.

The purpose of a regular game get-together is to have a bunch of interested gamers get together and have a good time. We tolerate differences in opinion and values (religion, politics, personal appearance, taste in entertainment media, etc.) amongst our group when they don't contradict that goal. When the goal isn't being achieved because of someone's behavior, something needs to be changed. Hopefully it's the behavior, but it it's unsalvageable then it needs to be the person.

Just as long as we don't start throwing the "B" word around. (Banning). I'm sick of banning. There is a proper way to socially maneuver these things to get the desired result.

In general I think banning someone should be a last resort. It should still be a tool in the social toolbox, however.

Let's be sympathetic to the fact that even the mean bully who only wants to win is probably the product of much bullying, rejection, abuse, etc. Not saying 2 wrongs make a right, but we all come with baggage and damage. The key word above is "constructive".

The bully may be a product of a tragic background but the fact is that once he's been given a chance or two to mend his ways and doesn't, nobody is obligated to tolerate him out of some misplaced sense of empathy. He's making the scene worse for everybody else and making new players in particular miserable. An assumed tragic backstory doesn't excuse that.

The purpose of a regular game get-together is to have a bunch of interested gamers get together and have a good time. We tolerate differences in opinion and values (religion, politics, personal appearance, taste in entertainment media, etc.) amongst our group when they don't contradict that goal. When the goal isn't being achieved because of someone's behavior, something needs to be changed. Hopefully it's the behavior, but it it's unsalvageable then it needs to be the person.

To be clear, I meant sympathetic in terms of how the behavior is addressed, not that, out of sympathy, it should be ignored.

To be clear, I meant sympathetic in terms of how the behavior is addressed, not that, out of sympathy, it should be ignored.

In that case, I am in complete agreement.

I'm a bit touchy on this subject as I've seen bullies or other kinds of negative players (cheaters being the best alternative example) poison game groups in the past. The other members complained about them but nobody wanted to do anything definitive for fear of seeming mean or exclusionary, but the end result was people just dropping out of the group rather than confront the person in question or make the hard decision to just no longer put up with the disruptive person any longer.

What kind of player base do I want to be?

Thats easy.

I want to be the very best.

Like no one ever was.

As I get older, I have less sympathy for people acting like jerks. You can be the product of a tragic background, but once you reach "a certain age", you either rise above that background or become a permanent victim of it. I'll help people where I can, but life is too short to consistently be around people that bring you down.

To be clear, I meant sympathetic in terms of how the behavior is addressed, not that, out of sympathy, it should be ignored.

In that case, I am in complete agreement.

I'm a bit touchy on this subject as I've seen bullies or other kinds of negative players (cheaters being the best alternative example) poison game groups in the past. The other members complained about them but nobody wanted to do anything definitive for fear of seeming mean or exclusionary, but the end result was people just dropping out of the group rather than confront the person in question or make the hard decision to just no longer put up with the disruptive person any longer.

Yeah I certainly don't advocate a do-nothing response, and my apologies if that's what it seemed like.

Two anecdotes I will share:

1. I haven't seen the kind of bad personalities attracted to FFG's games that I saw with GW's games. There were some...real characters back in my old WHFB days. Maybe the hobby is just growing up as a whole? Maybe FFG games are better balanced and thus there is less power-creep, pay to win, and general rules/system abuse going on? Maybe my theory of the emotional investment of assembling and painting miniatures holds true and thus doesn't apply to a game with pre-painted miniatures.

2. So...*we* (my IRL gaming group) has a buddy who must cheat on dice rolls. Let's call him "Stan" (he attempts this in RPG's as that's all I've known him to play). Stan tries to be all stealthy about it, but he's not. His favored method goes something like this: he always uses dice with muted number etchings so he has to "pick up" the die to see the actual result. And of course he'll rotate the die in his hand slightly before reading the result off. Now, Stan's actually a really nice, affable guy. He's also the newest player to our group, by far. One day, my other buddy (let's call him "Cleric") decided to call him out on it, as he has little patience for those kinds of shenanigans. Stan and Cleric then had more of a 'heart to heart' outside earshot of the rest of the gaming group. Stan explained to Cleric that, as the newest member of our group, he desperately wants to be seen (or rather, his characters) as useful and integral and worthy of the group's inclusion, so when the dice rolls don't go his way he gets frustrated and anxious that his character's failure will be projected onto him as a player. Now, I have since moved away from that group, but I believe hearing Stan out and Cleric reassuing Stan that his fearful perception was untrue, that it helped the situation.

Obviously that dynamic doesn't apply to all situations, especially in a tourney setting where you are only going to pay a guy once and then not see him for some time, but that's an example of what I'm kind of referring to.

Old saying in Karate is that the goal of the sensei is to train students that are better than himself.

I experienced this recently actually where a friend of mine that I play with a lot and almost always beat (like 90% of the time) went with me to a store champs and won it while I barely managed 6th place (due to some howlingly bad luck and a couple of stupid mistakes, but I digress). After I got over the initial "How the F does a guy I beat all the time take the whole tourney" feeling I felt kinda proud. I realized that while I beat him all the time, I always made sure that we debriefed and that we went over what worked and what didn't, I helped him tweak his list and pointed out weaknesses and (after ruthlessly exploiting them) discussed ways to fix or mitigate.

At the end of the day, it made him a better player, and playing better players is how you get better.