Was looking at a list I'd run ages ago with some success - 4x Interceptor, 1x Bomber - and while it had some life breathed back into it in wave 6 (with autothrusters)...I just can't imagine taking a 4x or 5x Alpha Interceptor list to an event these days, and expect anything but to get mauled.

I've seen a lot of issues lately, too, with players attempting to run the 'classic' TIE Fighter swarm, BBBBZ, or variations thereof.

At the moment, my gut feeling is that the wave-1/-2/-3 generic pilots are all overcosted by maybe 1 or 2 points compared to the current movers and shakers in the meta. And certainly the second-tier generics (Red Squadron, Storm Squadron, Gamma Squadron) are now badly missing the EPT more common to that tier, lately.

Just feels like it'd be really hard to justify their presence in a list that is expecting to fight wave 8 ships, nevermind the upcoming Imperial Veterans...

Not certain about that.

someone recently did well with a stack of generic interceptors.

and...like two days ago an A-wing swarm won a regional or something.

I feel like as the waves come out theres more space for the old stuff....just have to figure out how to fit the pieces together.

Isn't gold squadron pilot a wave 1 release?

Something not being used doesn't automatically mean it's priced wrong.

The Wave 1-3 generics are:

Academy - The cheapest you can get.

Obsidian - The cheapest you can get without being an Academy.

Black - Very popular right now.

Prototype: It's a bargain ship. I don't know how much it's used but I wouldn't knock it to 14.

Alpha: Has actually seen more use thanks to Autothrusters, if only by ParaGoomba.

Avenger - Was never used anyway.

Tempest/Storm Squadron: Surprised we don't see much of the AC TIE advanced. It's a bit dull which might be it. People going for that sort of squad tend to play Rebel anyway.

Saber/Royal: Interceptors live and die on pilot skill so everyone goes Soontir. Making these cheaper wouldn't change that and they're very aggressively priced as is.

Green: A victim of its position: there's not much call for elite A-wing generics: people just go up to Jake instead.

Rookie/Red - Both T-65 X-wings, hence their unpopularity. Red was never popular to begin with.

Gold - The heart of the TLT carrier and the Stresshog.

Scimitar - Very cheap ordnance carrier and minelayer.

Gamma - Never was really used anyway outside Epic.

Bounty Hunter - Had its day but Firesprays just aren't popular any more, especially in Imperial.
ORS - Has always been too expensive for what it does.

Blue - Arguing the B-wing's overcosted is a little crazy.

Dagger - Been out of fashion since Wave 4.

Omicron - Palpatine's bus of choice.

Rebel Operative - Nobody used it anyway.

and...like two days ago an A-wing swarm won a regional or something.

FWIW, I don't think the A-Wing was in as bad a slot as a few of the other early generics - they got their 'tier 2 with an EPT' on release with the Green Squadron Pilot. Not super powerful at the time, but with each new wave adding more EPTs and the 'Test Pilot' title, it is staying competitive and continually getting better.

5x GSP + Test Pilot + Chardaan + Crack Shot + Adaptability + AT is no joke.

But that's almost the exception that proves the rule, really...

Bumping this thread, as it's _way_ more interesting than any of the discussions about Identification in Virginia.

Even with the Gamma Veteran coming in imperial Veterans Gamma itself will see more play with Long Ranged Sensors coming out. Especially if Contracted Scouts become a popular Torpedo Boat.

I think especially for some of the Rebel Generics there's little reason to use them when there's better unique pilots that fill the role better

AP is still strong....

Academies and Blacks have the benefit of the buffs from Youngster/Howlrunner/Epsilon....ect.

That is at least part of the problem for some of the rebel generics. But I should say I am not terribly interested in seeing similar things done for rebel ships, if only for factions retaining a different flavor.

Totally and absolutely!!!!

TLT is the best consistent damage!

Scouts at PS3 blow up other jousters. ...

But actually, normal jousters do okay vs them if you bump or have higher PS and play strongly.

---

The main gist though is that FFG should realize jousters should not be JUST EFFICIENT. Otherwise its always a single or two point bid to find the best value. Taking different generics should give you strongly different options.

Ex. the Tie Advanced doesn't really give you any strong play options. It simple turns back and forth always evading and just keeps shooting.

I wouldn't mind flying this:

I've been doing fine with three B's and a Fringer or three Freelancers and a Scout.

The solution to your low-PS woes is big base blocking.

i blame the large ships personally.

Most of the older ships bank on dice to survive, either by killing you first or high agility. Large ships kinda cancel that to a degree, because the large ship will always take multiple turns of consistent damage to take out, while the smaller agile ships can flop in 1 volley thanks to dice.

I dont think the stats on the large ships are the problem, its their spam-ability. Shouldnt be able to field more than 1 in a 100pt game without being bareboned imo. Two large ships with a turret tends to outdo any small ship list barring some really odd dice luck.

And no im not talking purely about U-boats, though theyre the worst of the bunch.

But in all seriousness, what small ship isnt a high risk to bring? Even Soontir Fel can flop to autoblaster/accuracy corrector shenanigans REALLY fast and even his fistful of evades can flop (ive had him die in literally 1 volley, had 5 blank green dice and my evade token WOULD have kept him alive if i didnt draw a **** extra damage crit card). Never seen a large ship die in 1 turn, even if it gets focus fired and has no defenses.

X-wing generics --> never viable

Y-wing generics --> TLTs?

Tie Fighter generics --> always viable, especially black squad crackshot

Tie Advance generics --> sadly not even with x1

Tie interceptor generics --> nope

A-wing generics- -> prototype blocker 2nd place at worlds, green squad crack swarm won a regional

and...like two days ago an A-wing swarm won a regional or something.

FWIW, I don't think the A-Wing was in as bad a slot as a few of the other early generics - they got their 'tier 2 with an EPT' on release with the Green Squadron Pilot. Not super powerful at the time, but with each new wave adding more EPTs and the 'Test Pilot' title, it is staying competitive and continually getting better.

5x GSP + Test Pilot + Chardaan + Crack Shot + Adaptability + AT is no joke.

But that's almost the exception that proves the rule, really...

That list won NM last weekend. And Scimitars with tracers and Guidance chips are too much fun to run. Right now the alpha strike is where its at. You either have to avoid it or survive it. I think the biggest losers now have nothing to do with PS or what wave they are in. Agility 1 is really tough to be right now.

Well, MJ has the statistics on usage of "Vanila" generics on Worlds

sadly it's true and they are almost dead, with only some instance of BBBB preventing us saying "vanilla jousters are dead"

Xwing has always had a generic vs ace issue. Most ships until this last wave have either had only good aces or only good generics.

Blue squadron > B-wing Aces

Ewing < Corran

X-wing < Aces such as Luke, Biggs, Wedge

Starvipers < Guri and Xizor

YV 1300 and 2400 < Han, Dash

Rebel Y-wings > Horton

Etc. Etc.

But I have to give it to FFG. They have been reversing this trend. Now all defender with the new titles are solid. I think FFG saw that a lot of big ships have duds and they wanted to make sure every pilot was a good choice for the punishing one expansion. Alex Davey...Davies....what ever, he said they took the Contracted Scout too far. He also said a planned direct counter to the Three Scout list is coming in wave 9. I don't mind that they are doing so well. I will never play them because they are not my style and I don't want to buy three of them. But Rebels have won 3 world titles. Scum or Imperials need to take worlds this year.

X-wing generics --> never viable

Y-wing generics --> TLTs?

Tie Fighter generics --> always viable, especially black squad crackshot

Tie Advance generics --> sadly not even with x1

Tie interceptor generics --> nope

A-wing generics- -> prototype blocker 2nd place at worlds, green squad crack swarm won a regional

I'd say your list agrees largely with my sentiments, except for the TIE Fighters. And honestly, I think the disagreement on them only comes about because of the wave 7/wave 8 split. It did seem, for a brief shining moment when wave 7 dropped, that crack shot COULD be the thing to save the BSP generic. They seemed momentarily viable, I agree!

As of wave 8, though...I'm just not feeling it against either U-boats OR the Ghost, nevermind all the high-skill arc-dodgers we suddenly have pouring all over the place from Episode VII.

(Well, okay, and a few others. We had a nearly-Store-Championship-scale event won by a player running 3x Rookie X-Wings and 3x Bandit Z-95s. He flew well, but the list was *incredibly* sound at the time he was flying it. I wouldn't try it anymore, though! And per my OP post...I actually did really well with a generic Interceptor swarm, and won quite a bit with it once autothrusters arrived...and it has no chance in the current meta. So I guess the post is more an observation that while it may be true the early-wave generics have always had an uphill battle - with a few exceptions - it's gotten VERY BAD for them, lately.)

A guy just went undefeated through 5 rounds of swiss with 4x Blue Squadron B-Wings with FCS and Tractor Beam in the 30 strong Store Championship in Malmö, Sweden.

He really knows how to fly B-Wings.

I defeated him in the semi and then went on to win the tournament

TIEs and TIE bombers have some great generics, generic Y-wings are more than not obsolete, they have their own special name. I don't think the stress hog is gone for good and the TLT carrier is not to shabby either.

Interceptor, TIe Advanced generics were never good before, but the tempest Swarm is pretty good now. I think the only one that we saw before that has gone away is really the generic X-wings

I guess it really depends on if FFG really cares about the generic pilots or not. As long as that particular model is hitting the table it seems it won't get any extra love. But for some reason TIEs get a boost even tho they never needed it, and B-wings got extras from the Aces pack tho they were solid to begin with.

I dunno why the first three waves of generics need help over, say, Non-Horn E-wings or ALL Scyks. At least the early ships have had time in the spotlight, and they are THE iconic OT ships, they will always continue to sell.

And generic HWKs with Dorsal Turret and a cheap crew should be able to find a place in many lists if players are just willing to try.

Dorsal turret is love.

I would like to see something in the game that favours 3+ generic lists. Much like the idea of having a "tribe" in magic, if you play all the same type of ships you end up with a generally good list that synergizes due to everyone sharing the same squadron name.

I guess it really depends on if FFG really cares about the generic pilots or not. As long as that particular model is hitting the table it seems it won't get any extra love. But for some reason TIEs get a boost even tho they never needed it, and B-wings got extras from the Aces pack tho they were solid to begin with.

I dunno why the first three waves of generics need help over, say, Non-Horn E-wings or ALL Scyks. At least the early ships have had time in the spotlight, and they are THE iconic OT ships, they will always continue to sell.

And generic HWKs with Dorsal Turret and a cheap crew should be able to find a place in many lists if players are just willing to try.

Well, in one of interviews Alex mentioned that Ace pack was intended to make ACE B-s good, not generics that were fine.

But sadly, even Farlander_stays_on_target build wasn't a hit

Iconic or not, there are ships in dire need of more love, and what's wicked is that not all of them are "simply old and a bit outdated in current meta" but Wave 6-7 ships