I've been mulling over a couple of lists using Vader (he's the non-negotiable element!) with TAPS as blockers and as a kinda-alpha strike, (although that comes with it's own problems) and thought I'd throw it open to the floor. What's the thinking on one of these two lists?

List 1

Vader - VI, EU, ATC, Tie/x1

Zeta Leader - Wired

2 x Sienar Test Pilot - Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips, Tie/v1

100pts

I've gone Homing rather than Concussion cos I think the variance is less across six games, as Homing lets me spend the TL and use Chips. The big issue is getting the missiles off, as anything above PS2 (Contracted Scouts!) has to be in range 3 when I finish moving to get my TL, but will then inevitably either move out of arc or to range 1 before I get to fire. I suppose the question is whether to bother with trying to alpha strike at all, or hold onto them and hope for a good shot later in the game...

List 2

Vader - VI, EU, ATC, Tie/x1

Epsilon Squadron Pilot

2 x Baron of the Empire - Homing Missiles, Guidance Chips, Tie/v1

100pts

Zeta gets downgraded to an Epsilon, which I worry leaves me without enough punch, but the Sienars get upgraded to Barons so they fire before a lot of chaff, including the dreaded Scouts. The end of game, of using the TAPS and their excellent dials mainly as blockers for Vader, remains the same.

Anyone tried TAPs as ordnance carriers? Or am I just barking up the wrong tree with this idea?

I think the idea is solid, but I'm not sure you have the missiles down yet. The dial on the TAP seems to be pretty good for close in fighting, and they have three agility. I know it is a boringly common choice, but that shouts Proton Rockets in my ear. Prockets also have the bonus of not worrying about the Target lock, and they are only 3 points.

The focus token fire doesn't go super well with the title, but it gives you a lot more flexibility on the timing of your ordnance.

Here you go:

34 Vadar w/ Juke, PRockets, Chips, X1, AccCor.
54 (2x) Baron w/ Juke, HomingM, Chips, v1.
12 Academy.

Academy allows Vadar to get R1 without getting blocked. I like the homing + juke Barons, because even after they've fired their missiles, with Juke they can still do damage.

Here you go:

34 Vadar w/ Juke, PRockets, Chips, X1, AccCor.

54 (2x) Baron w/ Juke, HomingM, Chips, v1.

12 Academy.

Academy allows Vadar to get R1 without getting blocked. I like the homing + juke Barons, because even after they've fired their missiles, with Juke they can still do damage.

I would give Vader Adaptability, Engine Upgrade, ATC instead.

I really like that Baron build though.

Here you go:

34 Vadar w/ Juke, PRockets, Chips, X1, AccCor.

54 (2x) Baron w/ Juke, HomingM, Chips, v1.

12 Academy.

Academy allows Vadar to get R1 without getting blocked. I like the homing + juke Barons, because even after they've fired their missiles, with Juke they can still do damage.

I would give Vader Adaptability, Engine Upgrade, ATC instead.

I really like that Baron build though.

It's definitely an option. If I'm putting juke in my list, I just like to include as much as possible to capitalize on it's stacking effect. If you want to go with the traditional Vadar build, other options could be:

38 Vadar w/ VI, PRocket, Engine, X1, ATC.

50 (2x) Baron w/ Deadeye, HomingM, Chips.

12 Academy.

OR

35 Vadar w/ VI, Engine, X1, ATC.

50 (2x) Baron w/ Deadeye, HomingM, Chips.

15 Epsilon.

OR

35 Vadar w/ VI, Engine, X1, ATC.

50 (2x) Baron w/ Deadeye, HomingM, Chips.

14 Wampa.

1 Initiative.

Barons still have a great alpha, with less of an impact afterwards, but you get the propper endgame PS11 Vadar we all know and love, rather than the ordnance, Juke + AccCor Vadar.

Is Vadar=Vader?

I found Barons + PTL + Concussions + Title + Autothrusters to be effective.

Can TL and Focus. Concussion changes a blank to hit. So unless you roll 2+ blanks, you get 4 hits. With chips, it should just about be 4 hits every time. After alpha they are tough buggers to kill and superb blockers. My two barons nearly took Poe out in first round of action. He was left with one hull!

I found Barons + PTL + Concussions + Title + Autothrusters to be effective.

Can TL and Focus. Concussion changes a blank to hit. So unless you roll 2+ blanks, you get 4 hits. With chips, it should just about be 4 hits every time. After alpha they are tough buggers to kill and superb blockers. My two barons nearly took Poe out in first round of action. He was left with one hull!

Yeah, I think autothrusters are too good to pass up. PTL solves the 'need for chips' issue to some extent (as long as you don't care about getting an alpha strike, well you can still get it vs lower Pilot Skill).

Excellent replies everyone, much appreciated!

I also really like the PtL Baron build, but 54pts for two is quite a lot and leaves me struggling to fit in my favoured Vader build (VI, EU) and something else. Deadeye would solve the problem of needing to TL and then keep the enemy at range 2-3, but I don't have the card so it's out.

At the moment I'm tending towards trying:

Vader - VI, EU, ATC, title

2x Barons - Juke, Concussion Missiles, Chips

Academy Pilot

99 pts

and going full glass cannon with:

Vader - VI, EU, ATC, Title, PRockets

2x Baron - PtL, Autothrusters, Homing Missiles, Title

Either way, some actual testing needed. I'll report back with my findings...

I like the first build more, although those Barons could really use titles. Maybe drop the VI down to Adaptability on Vader?

I'm personally not a huge fan of Proton Rockets on Vader because it means:

1. You will likely need to spend your TL

2. You're in Range 1 so you would have thrown 3 dice with an additional crit anyway

I'm an idiot. the Barons in the first list have the titles.

The second list was just to see how far I could push things with the Barons for a giggle. I mostly agree about the PRockets, although I do like a bit of extra grunt what with the popularity of large-based ships now, but that three ship build had a few points spare.

I was thinking about:

2x Baron of the Empire

-Juke

-Title

-Autothrusters

-Homing Missles

Whisper

-VI

-FCS

-Recon Spec

-ACD

Comes to 98 points, 2 point bid for Whisper

Against U-Boats:

Hopefully should be able to alpha a Jumpmaster (or make it spend it's focus), and the Barons will have Evade tokens for the return fire. Juke seems pretty good against them.

Against Palp Aces:

Barons try to burn down the shuttle and cause a duel between Whisper and the aces. If the TAPs survive beyond the shuttle death, I think it's a pretty close match.

I would consider Intel Agent on Whisper and going for PTL on the Barons instead.

Gives you a ton of blocking potential against aces.

Wow Love the Barons w/ Juke!!! Think I'd spend the remaining 46 points on two OMG Squad Pilots, each with Juke, Comm Relay and a
Hull Upgrade. 100 points

What about:

Baron, Juke, Cluster Missiles, title, Chips = 26 points

Your Cluster Missile turn lets you double-dip on that Juke, and if you get them off on the same target you're just carving through stuff. The range of Clusters also sort of lets them split the difference between Prockets and Concussions/Homing. Juke will keep them offensively relevant even after the missiles are gone.

The biggest thing I can see is the TAPS with Missles may have enough threat to become first targets and with only 4 total hits needed to take them out they seem fragile. I think having 1 and used as a decoy or using something like swarm tactics to get them firing first ends up being necessary. I look at TAPS personally as late game closers and to clean up what didn't go down from my other attackers.

Food for thought w/ordnance taps is that they're priced equal to bombers

Except baron, which is overpriced to -1 PS versus the gamma vet

Jukr tie/v1 is a stiff gimmick that requires low PS TLs. That's no juke after

Boost/roll/focus

Bump

Stress, including red maneuver

Etc.

The main advantage of the TAPs is boost and the title. Ordnance pulls away from boost and heaps emphasis on the title, which is more difficult to enable at lower PS

Ultimately, imo, the generic TAPs is a lost cause in almost every circumstance. IPM title test pilots are, at least, not morbidly expensive and offer decent control

Had the baron been priced appropriately at 17/18, idve taken it with title + homing + crackshot over a similar Gamma any day

After the bomber is out of munitions, it's a rather stiff platform. The TAP is a knife-fighter and blocker once it's Missile is away.

Perhaps you could reconsider Vader at the meta.

I used to be Vader is key to out PS certain rebel aces with VI, especially Poe. Now that the meta has shifted, you'll see less of these regen aces. Their regen doesn't hold out well against alpha strikes.

There are other imperial aces you can consider.

Soontir Fel and Carnor Jax are both viable against Torp Boats. Carnor Jax, Omega Leader and even Inquisitor (to some extent) can hobble enemy Soontir Fel.

I was looking at something like:

(2) Baron of the Empire (19)

• Juke
• TIE/v1 (1)
• Concussion Missile (4)
• Guidance Chips (0)

Carnor Jax (26)

• PTL (3)
• Royal Guard TIE (0)
• Autothrusters (2)
• Stealth Device (3)

Wampa (14)

I played at the CAC last weekend and I had 2 Z's with Concussion Missiles and Guidance Chips. Played against a U-Boat build and they were very effective at blunting it's alpha strike by launching those missiles first.

I was looking at something like:

(2) Baron of the Empire (19)

• Juke
• TIE/v1 (1)
• Concussion Missile (4)
• Guidance Chips (0)

Carnor Jax (26)

• PTL (3)
• Royal Guard TIE (0)
• Autothrusters (2)
• Stealth Device (3)

Wampa (14)

I played at the CAC last weekend and I had 2 Z's with Concussion Missiles and Guidance Chips. Played against a U-Boat build and they were very effective at blunting it's alpha strike by launching those missiles first.

Very cool looking list. I was actually considering running something very similar to one of our store champs:

34 Carnor w/ PtL, Hull, Royal, AT.

54 (2x) Baron w/ Juke, HomingM, Chips, v1.

12 Academy.

How did the list do? Specifically against Palp-aces if you faced any.

Wampa Jax and juke... Man that is a cool build. I was thinking wired zeta leader and omega leader alongside 2 crack concussion title barons. That juke though...

I am not to concerned with loosing a TAP round one against boats or aces, as long as you have a meaningful late game ship in there. Omega lead or wampa probably fit the bill.