Firstly, apologies for another thread on IDs, but this is a slightly different discussion. Also, I'm very new to X-Wing, so feel free to point out anything I've understood incorrectly.

The whole ID thing seems to boil down to casual vs competitive. This can be seen in FFG's (supposed) official response:

We are aware of the occurrence at a Regional Championship where four individual matches elected to agree to an intentional draw. While we are still collecting information, it initially appears that each match followed the procedure for intentional draws as detailed in the Tournament Regulations, calling for a leader prior to any discussion on the topic so that they could oversee each match's agreement.

We understand that intentional draws are a foreign or disliked concept for some players and fans of Organized Play, but it is our belief that they are a necessary inclusion to promote a fair play experience for all tournament players. As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series, and offer more incredible prizes like travel to exclusive events, we must commit to embracing the differences between purely recreational play and tournament play.

We appreciate your feedback on this policy. We are taking steps to help increase the understanding and acceptance of the necessity of intentional draws being allowed in tournaments. Look for an article on this subject on our Organized Play page (www.fantasyflightgames.com/op) in the very near future, which will help valued community members like yourself explain and implement the change.

OK, so let's just roll with that for a minute. I want to focus on this bit: "we must commit to embracing the differences between purely recreational play and tournament play". Alright... so let's now pull in the different Tournament Types from the last page of the official tournament rules:

FFG’s OP events are broken into three tiers of play. These tiers serve to establish the expectations of an X-Wing tournament. Expectations are not intended to exclude people from participating, but to communicate the experience that players can expect from an event. Organizers of unofficial tournaments are encouraged to utilize the Relaxed tier, unless their tournament is specifically aimed at competitive players.

Relaxed - At this level are welcoming to all players, regardless of experience level. Players are encouraged to help each other improve and learn, so long as it does not significantly disrupt the game. The focus is on creating a fun and friendly environment.

Formal - This tournament level expects players to posses at least a minimal amount of experience. Players should be familiar with the game rules, and be prepared to exercise that knowledge to play at a reasonable pace. Players are expected to avoid bumping ships and refrain from other sloppy play mistakes. The focus is a friendly competitive environment.

Premier - Premier events are the highest level of competition for Fantasy Flight Games tournaments. At this top level of tournaments, players are expected to have a moderate amount of experience. Players should be familiar with not only the game rules, but also the FAQ and tournament regulations. The focus is on a competitive and fair environment.

So, in this bit, I wanted to focus on the last sentence of each of the types, highlighted in bold. The focus of the environment.

Now, from the Organized play page here:

Tournaments can be classified as a casual (previous name of Relaxed), competitive (previous name of Formal), or premier tournament. While most tournaments run with our Tournament Kits are casual events, Store Championships are competitive-level events.

And from the Open Series page here:

The 2016 X-Wing System Open Series runs from March through June. Each of its eight thrilling events is scheduled to run multiple days and is designed to welcome players of all skill and experience levels. If you love flying your miniature starships into battle, these are the events for you!

Right, so what am I rambling on about? I would argue that the ID goes against the mantra of the Relaxed ("The focus is on creating a fun and friendly environment.") and Formal ("The focus is a friendly competitive environment") tournament types. It makes sense to me for the Premier type: "The focus is on a competitive and fair environment". Let's just roll with that for a minute...

My assumption is that anything Store Championship wise and lower is Relaxed/Formal as per the Organized Play page. My assumption is also that anything Regional or higher is at the Premier type.

Now the Open is a bit of a weird one is this regard. From the description of "designed to welcome players of all skill and experience levels", you would almost certainly put it in the Relaxed category. And the Coruscant Invitational is almost certainly a Premier type. What's not clear to me is if the Open regionals are a different type depending on the day/phase of the tournament. You could for example say that the initial qualifiers are Relaxed, the first part of the Final day is Formal and the Final 8 single elimination is Premier. However, I'm not sure if a type applies to the entire tournament or not. If it does, I would say the Open is a Relaxed type.

Anyway, I'm sure (hopefully) you can see what I'm on about...

TL;DR - I believe IDs should only align with the mantra of the Premier type of tournament, not the Relaxed (prev. Casual) or Formal (prev. Competitive) types. I believe the Open Regionals are the Relaxed type because they invite players of all skill levels, but can see how different stages of the Regional Open could be labelled different types (if that's possible).

Hmmm... 50 views, but no replies... is it the wall of text? is it because people are tired of talking about ID? is it because no-one loves me? is it because everyone agrees with me?

Tired of it.

I think you made a fairly reasonable conclusion, but there's not much further to discuss other than "this is sort of weird", and it dovetails into a lot of discussion that has already been had.

Not everyone is ready for the bargaining phase of grief just yet. Most are still in Denial or Anger. A few have moved on to Acceptance.

Tired of it.

Ah, but you still clicked on a thread with ID in the title.

Anyway, I think this is a different discussion than the norm, or wouldn't have bothered with a separate thread. Thanks for proving it's visible on the forums though.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are competitive.

I think anything 'Casual' should never go to single elimination, period. Don't even worry about IDs then, just don't..... have a cut. Pure Swiss, play until one person is undefeated.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are competitive.

I think anything 'Casual' should never go to single elimination, period. Don't even worry about IDs then, just don't..... have a cut. Pure Swiss, play until one person is undefeated.

IDs don't happen in the single elimination phase, they happen in the Swiss phase. In any case, I'm a casual player, but I still like a bit of competition. I'd happily play a single elimination. A casual player, doesn't mean the same thing as a casual tournament.

A casual player, doesn't mean the same thing as a casual tournament.

Can't say much else.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are anti-competitive.

FTFY.

(I think you know this, but I'm going to lay it out anyway for the record.) IDs are "necessary" because in some cases, the current tournament structure creates matches where no one needs to win, but neither player can afford to lose. That creates an incentive to play an essentially fake match, where players help ensure their opponents make the cut in exchange for guaranteeing their own spots--or, much more efficiently, the players simply take an intentional draw and skip the round.

But because the tournament system doesn't find out the "real" outcome of that match, ID represents irretrievably lost information. And because ID is most likely in the final round, the information that's lost is from the most consequential phase of the game--the part where broad sorting has already been accomplished, and the Swiss system is trying to determine the "correct" ranking for players who are close to one another.

IDs are fundamentally anti-competitive.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are anti-competitive.

FTFY.

(I think you know this, but I'm going to lay it out anyway for the record.) IDs are "necessary" because in some cases, the current tournament structure creates matches where no one needs to win, but neither player can afford to lose. That creates an incentive to play an essentially fake match, where players help ensure their opponents make the cut in exchange for guaranteeing their own spots--or, much more efficiently, the players simply take an intentional draw and skip the round.

But because the tournament system doesn't find out the "real" outcome of that match, ID represents irretrievably lost information. And because ID is most likely in the final round, the information that's lost is from the most consequential phase of the game--the part where broad sorting has already been accomplished, and the Swiss system is trying to determine the "correct" ranking for players who are close to one another.

IDs are fundamentally anti-competitive.

I think I spaced out, I meant IDs are friendly. You are agreeing with your opponent to not knock each other out.

I'll leave it there though in original form.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are competitive.

I think anything 'Casual' should never go to single elimination, period. Don't even worry about IDs then, just don't..... have a cut. Pure Swiss, play until one person is undefeated.

IDs don't happen in the single elimination phase, they happen in the Swiss phase. In any case, I'm a casual player, but I still like a bit of competition. I'd happily play a single elimination. A casual player, doesn't mean the same thing as a casual tournament.

Casual is a level of tournament. You still want to win (or place high) in a Swiss tournament, its just structured like that so that everyone can play the whole time.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are anti-competitive.

FTFY.

(I think you know this, but I'm going to lay it out anyway for the record.) IDs are "necessary" because in some cases, the current tournament structure creates matches where no one needs to win, but neither player can afford to lose. That creates an incentive to play an essentially fake match, where players help ensure their opponents make the cut in exchange for guaranteeing their own spots--or, much more efficiently, the players simply take an intentional draw and skip the round.

But because the tournament system doesn't find out the "real" outcome of that match, ID represents irretrievably lost information. And because ID is most likely in the final round, the information that's lost is from the most consequential phase of the game--the part where broad sorting has already been accomplished, and the Swiss system is trying to determine the "correct" ranking for players who are close to one another.

IDs are fundamentally anti-competitive.

I think I spaced out, I meant IDs are friendly. You are agreeing with your opponent to not knock each other out.

I'll leave it there though in original form.

I'm out of likes for today, but thanks for the clarification.

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are competitive.

I think anything 'Casual' should never go to single elimination, period. Don't even worry about IDs then, just don't..... have a cut. Pure Swiss, play until one person is undefeated.

IDs don't happen in the single elimination phase, they happen in the Swiss phase. In any case, I'm a casual player, but I still like a bit of competition. I'd happily play a single elimination. A casual player, doesn't mean the same thing as a casual tournament.

Casual is a level of tournament. You still want to win (or place high) in a Swiss tournament, its just structured like that so that everyone can play the whole time.

This is probably why they changed the name from "Casual" to "Relaxed", to avoid confusion. I would argue that "Formal" in the OP is also casual based on the description.

This is probably why they changed the name from "Casual" to "Relaxed", to avoid confusion. I would argue that "Formal" in the OP is also casual based on the description.

Formal has the word "competitive" in it's goal, so I'd disagree.

But its just like, my opinion man. However the split is made, would be nice to see the tournament structure suit the desired atmosphere based on the objectives of the tournament type.

This is probably why they changed the name from "Casual" to "Relaxed", to avoid confusion. I would argue that "Formal" in the OP is also casual based on the description.

However the split is made, would be nice to see the tournament structure suit the desired atmosphere based on the objectives of the tournament type.

That we can agree on...

IDs aren't unfriendly, but by nature are competitive.

This is correct.

Friendly and competitive are not mutually exclusive.

I'm running out of gifs...... here's your coffee.

I'm running out of gifs...... here's your coffee.

But I don't like coffee. I'm going to pretend it's hot chocolate ok?