Insisting that someone else make an exception for you, because of your own mistake, is the opposite of fly casual.

That's why I don't like Fly Casual. It's bragging, it's judgement of others, the ideals people claim it promotes aren't even upheld by its creator.

Not it's not. Not if you're doing it right. And who cares if the creator doesn't want to fly by his own rules?

Bruce Wayne: People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man, I'm flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed; but as a symbol... as a symbol I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting.

Bruce Wayne is dead. Batman lives on.

Bringing out the worst in people? You mean how Doug Kinney's "Fly Casual" mentality caused him to say, "**** you" to Paul Heaver?

Fly Casual has done nothing but fill the community with militant casuals that fly sloppy and /expect/ to have their missed triggers be granted to them, like Bonzo Madrid.

I'll keep telling you until you understand: those people, Doug Kinney included in this instance, are not Flying Casual. Maybe if you didn't retaliate against the militant casuals with a sh*tty attitude of your own, they could see the light and improve their own attitudes, their game, and your local X-Wing scene. Food for thought for your next tournament.

I agree that they're not truly flying casual. They're militant casuals. I've also made this point many times before.

Even if it's a misconception, militant casuals themselves and most other players consider "fly casual" to mean allowing forgotten triggers and such, and not merely being polite. It doesn't matter if they're wrong about it, they're still using that label and its most common definition.

I don't know how to handle these situations in person any better. I politely tell them that they've missed a trigger, and explain to them if they don't understand how they missed it. If they're going to get pissed off, that's on them and they need to be made to squirm if they continue to be impolite because its funny.

Nothing that happened at Roanoke affected my Sunday game of X-Wing in the slightest. I wasn't playing the whole time thinking, "This is fun, but somewhere hundreds of miles away, a bad rule went off and now my game is ruined." We played games, even let someone proxy a TIE f/o because he forgot the card, and we had fun and didn't worry about cuts or prize support or MOV.

When Major League Baseball went on strike and we lost an entire post-season including the World Series, did anybody stop going to Little League games? No, because, while the same sport, it was two different levels of competition. A black mark on one didn't spoil the fun of the other.

If you're not playing this game for tournaments and prizes but because it's a fun game you enjoy, absolutely nothing has changed at all. It's still the X-Wing we know and love.

If you don't play competitively then you are right, it doesn't affect you. Those of us that do though are faced with the potential of being locked out of top 8 on the whims of other players. People think that competitive doesn't affect casual play and they are mostly correct but the bigger the competitive scene for a game the more likely that a company will increase support to the game in general.

If you are getting locked out its because you lost games and need to fly better.

A situation that came up in a recent game: Wedge, Ten Numb with Mangler and Biggs fire at Whisper. All have TL. Wedge: all blanks, re-roll, all blank. Numb: 0 hits, reroll, 0 hits. Biggs: the same. 18 dice and not a single hit result between them.

Another game, my brand new Omega squadron with Focus was one-shotted by a stressed Ezra in the shuttle at R3 (his roll: crit, crit, hit; my roll: 4 blanks).

How does "fly better" help in situations like these? Sometimes you lose not because you played badly but because the dice hate you and no amount of skill will help with that.

X-Wing has a very strong random factor and that is why it is IMHO impossible to transfer solutions and rules from games like MtG, which are much more skill-based and much more controllable.

I find it very interesting that folks think "Fly Casual" is only an XWM thing, we have been espousing that philosophy in the SW geek communnity since...oh....about 1985-ish. Feel free to continue with the vitriol though.

Mahalo,

John

Sorry, new to the forum, so hopefully this hasn't been answered before, but can anyone explain to me exactly why FFG think this rule is necessary?

I've seen a post saying to "promote fair play", but I don't understand how this rule does that. What exactly is the problem they are trying to fix?

Honestly, nobody knows.

As the value of prizes in X-wing increases, so does the tendency to manipulate the results. It doesn't happen now, because people probably don't feel the need to do it for a bye and a range ruler,but what if the prize is worth 1000$? Or 10000$? Or more?

If people really want to do it, it would be a nightmare to police.

I get the problem. What I don't get is why OP thought ID is better than eliminating draws altogether by some kind of tie-breaker. The amount of legitimate draws it would affect is minuscule.

That's why I don't like Fly Casual. It's bragging, it's judgement of others, the ideals people claim it promotes aren't even upheld by its creator.

Not it's not. Not if you're doing it right. And who cares if the creator doesn't want to fly by his own rules?

Bruce Wayne: People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man, I'm flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed; but as a symbol... as a symbol I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting.

Bruce Wayne is dead. Batman lives on.

Bringing out the worst in people? You mean how Doug Kinney's "Fly Casual" mentality caused him to say, "**** you" to Paul Heaver?

Fly Casual has done nothing but fill the community with militant casuals that fly sloppy and /expect/ to have their missed triggers be granted to them, like Bonzo Madrid.

I'll keep telling you until you understand: those people, Doug Kinney included in this instance, are not Flying Casual. Maybe if you didn't retaliate against the militant casuals with a sh*tty attitude of your own, they could see the light and improve their own attitudes, their game, and your local X-Wing scene. Food for thought for your next tournament.

:/ regarding your quote, it seems like the symbol of fly Casual is very corruptible.

All I see about it is people arguing and then ending their comments with fly casual or people having to restate in a different way what fly casual means. There was an entire forum thread the other day about what it personally means to people, because it's so vague and everyone's interpretation of it is different. The only underlying theme of it was be courteous in games.

It's a great thing to strive for and I don't say that I'm against that ideal of respect and the promotion of fun even in tournaments. I just don't want to associate myself with something so vague it has to be restated all the time to remind others of how they are using it wrong.

Especially so when the phrase gets turned into a judgement of others, not unlike the post I've linked previously.

So being courteous and promoting fun I'm all for but I don't think it's necessary to attribute that to fly casual.

1) It's the opposite of fly casual to ASK for an exception, let alone INSIST upon one.

2) If I mess up and forget to take an action, I'm not going to talk about it and try to make the other guy feel guilty (let alone start a fight about it) for my mistake.

3) On the flip side, if I see someone forgot something obvious I'll mention it.

In the end, the true principle of flying casual is UNSELFISHNESS. If you want to claim the fly casual label, but only use it to your own benefit, then you are being selfish.

Get over yourselves. 'FFG are becoming like GW' are they? 'X-Wing is dead' is it? Because they introduced a rule you take umbrage with? A rule that has currently affected about 4 people, one of which has written about how he was cool with it? This reaction is genuinely baffling.

That dude even got tequila!

Even if it's a misconception, militant casuals themselves and most other players (1) consider "fly casual" to mean allowing forgotten triggers and such, and not merely being polite. It doesn't matter if they're wrong about it (2), they're still using that label and its most common definition.

I don't know how to handle these situations in person any better. I politely tell them that they've missed a trigger, and explain to them if they don't understand how they missed it. If they're going to get pissed off, that's on them and they need to be made to squirm if they continue to be impolite because its funny. (3)

1) Citation needed. Just because you see a lot of people doing something wrong doesn't mean that most people do. Look at everything going on on these forums right now: just because there are a lot of people willing to call each other names over a rules disagreement in a game of plastic miniatures doesn't make them the majority. In fact, it's pretty commonly known that for most games, not just X-Wing, the Internet is home to a vocal, competitive minority and does not necessarily represent that larger numbers of stay-at-home casual players well.

2) Again, it absolutely matters. Much the same way that someone who believes "all men must be punished" is not a true feminist, or that "all non-believers must be punished" is not a true Muslim, neither is someone who believes "my opponent must play how I want them to play" a true Fly Casual player. It is a struggle for these movements to make that distinction clear, but it's a struggle that must be fought because there is a message to be heard (generally: equality, tolerance, peace, fun, etc).

3) This is exactly what you can change to handle the situations better. Don't see yourself as someone doling out justice to people who have corrupted an otherwise noble endeavor. Don't take pleasure in watching, making them squirm. Don't brag about it online. Communicate with them. Help them understand that they don't understand Fly Casual. "Sorry, but I'm not going to let you put down that Focus token because this is a tournament and you missed a trigger," costs you nothing. And if they're really getting upset about it, that's when you call a TO over.

:/ regarding your quote, it seems like the symbol of fly Casual is very corruptible.

It's a great thing to strive for and I don't say that I'm against that ideal of respect and the promotion of fun even in tournaments.

Especially so when the phrase gets turned into a judgement of others, not unlike the post I've linked previously.

Can be incorruptible and is incorruptible are unfortunately two different things. See above. Fly Casual yourself, be an example, and help communicate why those things aren't Fly Casual and what makes the real Fly Casual so great.

The 'becoming like GW' thing is really more about having contradictory rules that are hard to resolve than anything else. Generally X-Wing has kept pretty clear of those, relatively speaking.

:/ regarding your quote, it seems like the symbol of fly Casual is very corruptible.

It's a great thing to strive for and I don't say that I'm against that ideal of respect and the promotion of fun even in tournaments.

Especially so when the phrase gets turned into a judgement of others, not unlike the post I've linked previously.

Can be incorruptible and is incorruptible are unfortunately two different things. See above. Fly Casual yourself, be an example, and help communicate why those things aren't Fly Casual and what makes the real Fly Casual so great.

I feel like you ignored the part where I explained I don't want to be associated with fly casual. I'll promote similar ideals but I have no desire to attribute being respectful to fly casual.

Sorry for the messy post; mobile kinda screwed the quote up.

IDK i think the current FFG prize support is kind of lame... plastic tokens? "ok" range rulers how many do you need??? Coins got one.. etc..alt art card? meh can make my own... what they NEED is to take a page out of wiz-kids book and provide alt paint job X-wing ships.. Now that would be cool AND useful. but DONT make it a unique ship just one with an alternate paint job.... also the wiz kids attackwing blind build is kind of a neat thing to encourage folks to play... i know it worked on me.. for those that dont know. a blind build is this: You build a 75 point fleet and once you get to the store you get an unknown ship that you must add to you fleet and you have an additional 25 points to spend. wiz-kids puts out blind "Booster" packs every so often for this purpose. although i think the builds are 90/130 not 75/100... of course for FFG to do that you would need faction specific boosters. just my 3 cents...

Do we even f**king have a sky anymore?

IDK i think the current FFG prize support is kind of lame... plastic tokens? "ok" range rulers how many do you need??? Coins got one.. etc..alt art card? meh can make my own... what they NEED is to take a page out of wiz-kids book and provide alt paint job X-wing ships.. Now that would be cool AND useful. but DONT make it a unique ship just one with an alternate paint job.... also the wiz kids attackwing blind build is kind of a neat thing to encourage folks to play... i know it worked on me.. for those that dont know. a blind build is this: You build a 75 point fleet and once you get to the store you get an unknown ship that you must add to you fleet and you have an additional 25 points to spend. wiz-kids puts out blind "Booster" packs every so often for this purpose. although i think the builds are 90/130 not 75/100... of course for FFG to do that you would need faction specific boosters. just my 3 cents...

No.

Apparently it's really cool nowadays to quote the death sentence phrase used in courts when someone doesn't believe in a mantra designed to sell shirts and alienate competitive minded players.

Again: cynical and poorly informed, or lying? It's one or the other.Oh, and Simonsays3 isn't quoting "the death sentence phrase", but rather an Adam Sandler movie.

A movie that, in that very scene, is quoting the death sentence phrase.

I'm quite certain that the wish for (a) god(s) to have mercy on your soul predates the US and certainly is used in more friendly occaissions. So please stop calling it the death sentence phrase.

Apparently it's really cool nowadays to quote the death sentence phrase used in courts when someone doesn't believe in a mantra designed to sell shirts and alienate competitive minded players.

Again: cynical and poorly informed, or lying? It's one or the other.Oh, and Simonsays3 isn't quoting "the death sentence phrase", but rather an Adam Sandler movie.

A movie that, in that very scene, is quoting the death sentence phrase.

I'm quite certain that the wish for (a) god(s) to have mercy on your soul predates the US and certainly is used in more friendly occaissions. So please stop calling it the death sentence phrase.

You're probably right. Can you show me how it would be used in a friendly, non-condescending way? I don't see how it isn't used to pass judgement on someone.

100% not sarcasm, I've only ever heard the phrase used one way.

Once again, fly casual was originally about selling t-shirts.

Nope:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1044101/fly-casual-campaign-please-read

Yes they sold shirt, to those who agreed with the philosophy.

Having to get creative, so here's a gif of scrambled eggs

op, doug kinney threw a big tantrum on facebook or twitter or whatever (social media) and put a minor on blast over a miniature game. thats the least casual thing i can think of to do.

maybe you need a better role model.

Having to get creative, so here's a gif of scrambled eggs

I so wish I had some likes left. Here, have a Full Scottish Breakfast -

Cheers

Baaa

Having to get creative, so here's a gif of scrambled eggs

I so wish I had some likes left. Here, have a Full Scottish Breakfast -

Cheers

Baaa

im a big fan of tomato with breakfast.

Having to get creative, so here's a gif of scrambled eggs

I so wish I had some likes left. Here, have a Full Scottish Breakfast -

Cheers

Baaa

Why thank you. I couldn't resist the scrambled eggs gag. I'm still stocked

See?

You're probably right. Can you show me how it would be used in a friendly, non-condescending way? I don't see how it isn't used to pass judgement on someone.

100% not sarcasm, I've only ever heard the phrase used one way.

Passing judgment is of course not the same as a death sentence of course. It is also used for funerals, and for those times when people die without having been able to prepare, during disasters for instance. No last rites, no time to confess. More so, now that the death penalty is abolished in most civilized countries.

I can't even sell my SC coin for a decent price. Everyone has wanted less than $10.

I'd probably pay $10-15 for it. It's a shiny affectation, but it's one I'd like since I missed my chance to earn it by pure circumstance. That said, the prices people are asking for them here are insane; anything from three to six times that. The after-market for these things is hilariously artificially over-inflated.

I paid $10 for my CAC challenge coin. Quite worth it.