Nothing that happened at Roanoke affected my Sunday game of X-Wing in the slightest. I wasn't playing the whole time thinking, "This is fun, but somewhere hundreds of miles away, a bad rule went off and now my game is ruined." We played games, even let someone proxy a TIE f/o because he forgot the card, and we had fun and didn't worry about cuts or prize support or MOV.

When Major League Baseball went on strike and we lost an entire post-season including the World Series, did anybody stop going to Little League games? No, because, while the same sport, it was two different levels of competition. A black mark on one didn't spoil the fun of the other.

If you're not playing this game for tournaments and prizes but because it's a fun game you enjoy, absolutely nothing has changed at all. It's still the X-Wing we know and love.

Once again, fly casual was originally about selling t-shirts.

Once again, you're lying.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/90985-the-fly-casual-campaign-please-read/

T-shirt sales in the original post. People don't need a mantra or a t-shirt to have fun and promote fun. The original post was about selling a product to people who don't "take themselves too seriously".

TBH I am starting to get a little sick of these threads.

I come to the forums because I enjoy reading the diverse opinions, tactics, shenanigans and lives of my fellow players.

However wave 8 onwards ppl seem to just be batching about x, then you and now z! Is everybody on here bar me a Torniment player? How many ID threads does this make?

Sorry for the rant, but I like you all and these forums seem toxic atm.

Nothing that happened at Roanoke affected my Sunday game of X-Wing in the slightest. I wasn't playing the whole time thinking, "This is fun, but somewhere hundreds of miles away, a bad rule went off and now my game is ruined." We played games, even let someone proxy a TIE f/o because he forgot the card, and we had fun and didn't worry about cuts or prize support or MOV.

When Major League Baseball went on strike and we lost an entire post-season including the World Series, did anybody stop going to Little League games? No, because, while the same sport, it was two different levels of competition. A black mark on one didn't spoil the fun of the other.

If you're not playing this game for tournaments and prizes but because it's a fun game you enjoy, absolutely nothing has changed at all. It's still the X-Wing we know and love.

If you don't play competitively then you are right, it doesn't affect you. Those of us that do though are faced with the potential of being locked out of top 8 on the whims of other players. People think that competitive doesn't affect casual play and they are mostly correct but the bigger the competitive scene for a game the more likely that a company will increase support to the game in general.

I just counted on thread title alone I see 7 on the front page.

I actually don't feel like it'll ever effect me. In fact, the prize support is more likely to effect my overall experience of any competitive events. I've always entered without any actual care about winning, since I've never found anything in that support in any way alluring. I enter because it's a slightly different play experience, and I enjoy that as much as casual play.

If the prize support changed in some way, I might take my list building for an event a bit more seriously (read: actually play more than a game with it before walking in). I don't care about acrylics, cards, or titles, but if a regional prize included something interesting and thematic like - and I'm just making things up here - a free copy of Rebellion, or some Sideshow Collectibles piece, then I might actually play a bit more thoughtfully.

The problem is that improving the prize support would actually likely increase the chances of butting against the issue of intentional draws, as people focus on the prize, rather than the experience. This is what I find unfortunate; IDs, as they stand, actually preclude prize support improvements - even for one-off events like the Open series - as they become more likely when there's simply more on the line. Even something like the introduction of a ranking system based on regional/national results would increase that chance.

Right now, it's unlikely I'll be effected. In the future, however, who knows?

Once again, fly casual was originally about selling t-shirts.

Once again, you're lying.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/90985-the-fly-casual-campaign-please-read/

T-shirt sales in the original post. People don't need a mantra or a t-shirt to have fun and promote fun. The original post was about selling a product to people who don't "take themselves too seriously".

Neither the artist or Doug made any money from the T-shirts. Both essentially donated their time because they thought it was a cool idea and thought others might want to share it. Oh, and Fly Casual pre-dates the T-shirt thread by at least six months.

I'll amend my original statement: it's possibly you're simply cynical and poorly informed on this subject, rather than lying. But I was around when it started, too, and it certainly wasn't about exploiting players to sell a product.

Nothing that happened at Roanoke affected my Sunday game of X-Wing in the slightest. I wasn't playing the whole time thinking, "This is fun, but somewhere hundreds of miles away, a bad rule went off and now my game is ruined." We played games, even let someone proxy a TIE f/o because he forgot the card, and we had fun and didn't worry about cuts or prize support or MOV.

When Major League Baseball went on strike and we lost an entire post-season including the World Series, did anybody stop going to Little League games? No, because, while the same sport, it was two different levels of competition. A black mark on one didn't spoil the fun of the other.

If you're not playing this game for tournaments and prizes but because it's a fun game you enjoy, absolutely nothing has changed at all. It's still the X-Wing we know and love.

If you don't play competitively then you are right, it doesn't affect you. Those of us that do though are faced with the potential of being locked out of top 8 on the whims of other players. People think that competitive doesn't affect casual play and they are mostly correct but the bigger the competitive scene for a game the more likely that a company will increase support to the game in general.

If you are getting locked out its because you lost games and need to fly better.

I STUBBED MY TOE!

FU*KING IDs!

Those of us that do though are faced with the potential of being locked out of top 8 on the whims of other players.

It might effect us who play at tournaments. The people at that regional who were in 9th, 10th perhaps even 11th place might of made the cut if those games were played, but they very well may not of. It is possible that mathematically, the ID's had zero effect on the final 8 cut.

It's also fairly iffy that we'll see that sort of situation show up again.

I get why people don't like it, because it takes all the power away from them. Their fate is no longer in their hands. But this by no means is the end of fair and competitive X-Wing. It is absolutely not the end of the game itself, and that type of hyperbole does nobody any good.

Once again, fly casual was originally about selling t-shirts.

Once again, you're lying.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/90985-the-fly-casual-campaign-please-read/

T-shirt sales in the original post. People don't need a mantra or a t-shirt to have fun and promote fun. The original post was about selling a product to people who don't "take themselves too seriously".

Did you actually read the thread or are you just looking for a reason to declare it "dead and gone and not even real anyways"? It's like the lamest kind of historical revision because you're linking to the thing you're trying to prove but it doesn't really prove anything. All it shows is, to quote literally the first two paragraphs, "I have found this community understands this is a game. We play this game to have fun and share our experiences with others. Those of us who share this philosophy have adopted the mantra of "Fly Casual", as a reminder to have fun and enjoy the game, win or lose."

In what universe is Fly Casual about selling t-shirts? Are they still available for sale? Is Hothie raking in huge t-shirts profits from this mantra of "play to have fun"? Can you prove this nefarious link to the t-shirt cartel and if so, where can I buy these magical t-shirts that the big bad Fly Casual corporations are using to secretly control x-wing for profit?

Because nothing in that post suggests any of the things you're talking about and on a personal note, dude I was there. It wasn't even that long ago. How bad do you think anyone's memory really is? Seriously, I need to get a copy of Joe Boss Red Seven's "bad post" because that's the dumbest thing I've read over the last few days and considering the week it's been that's a feat.

I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

Get over yourselves. 'FFG are becoming like GW' are they? 'X-Wing is dead' is it? Because they introduced a rule you take umbrage with? A rule that has currently affected about 4 people, one of which has written about how he was cool with it? This reaction is genuinely baffling.

Those of us that do though are faced with the potential of being locked out of top 8 on the whims of other players.

It might effect us who play at tournaments. The people at that regional who were in 9th, 10th perhaps even 11th place might of made the cut if those games were played, but they very well may not of. It is possible that mathematically, the ID's had zero effect on the final 8 cut.

It's also fairly iffy that we'll see that sort of situation show up again.

I get why people don't like it, because it takes all the power away from them. Their fate is no longer in their hands. But this by no means is the end of fair and competitive X-Wing. It is absolutely not the end of the game itself, and that type of hyperbole does nobody any good.

I agree that its going to be rare. It's interesting that it has happened already, It's not the end, not even close, but it could hurt competitive play if people think it's serious enough.

Apparently it's really cool nowadays to quote the death sentence phrase used in courts when someone doesn't believe in a mantra designed to sell shirts and alienate competitive minded players.

Well, at least Simonsays3 is doing it.

If you've lost X-Wing due to ID's and a flight to and hotel in London then I would say you never had it to begin with.

The game is so much more than organized play.

Apparently it's really cool nowadays to quote the death sentence phrase used in courts when someone doesn't believe in a mantra designed to sell shirts and alienate competitive minded players.

Again: cynical and poorly informed, or lying? It's one or the other.

Oh, and Simonsays3 isn't quoting "the death sentence phrase", but rather an Adam Sandler movie.

Apparently it's really cool nowadays to quote the death sentence phrase used in courts when someone doesn't believe in a mantra designed to sell shirts and alienate competitive minded players.

Again: cynical and poorly informed, or lying? It's one or the other.

Oh, and Simonsays3 isn't quoting "the death sentence phrase", but rather an Adam Sandler movie.

Haha, Vorpal gets it

And Groggy, dude seriously the only people who made money off of the design were the manufacturers and those profits covered the cost of materials and printing. If it's a secret money making scheme, it's a super crappy one that failed out of the gates. You can rage against "Fly Casual" as much as you like but if you're going to be obtuse enough to insist some imaginary event took place in 2013 you're going to have to do better than trying to claim "it's all about the money man!"

I get the prizes through trades or cheap on ebay. Never had to play a tourney to do it. Eh... Back to Armada.

I STUBBED ROANOKED MY TOE!

FU*KING IDs!

Fixed.

Apparently it's really cool nowadays to quote the death sentence phrase used in courts when someone doesn't believe in a mantra designed to sell shirts and alienate competitive minded players.

Again: cynical and poorly informed, or lying? It's one or the other.Oh, and Simonsays3 isn't quoting "the death sentence phrase", but rather an Adam Sandler movie.

A movie that, in that very scene, is quoting the death sentence phrase.

Neither cynical nor lying. I understand that hothie and his friend didn't profit on it. That does not disprove that the post was about selling t-shirts, just that hothie and his buddy did not gain anything monetarily from it.

Furthermore, the post was an attempt at distancing himself from people who I quote, "take the game too seriously". Who is he to say that someone takes it too seriously? That looks like judgement of other people.

I see what he's trying to make it about, promoting fun and being courteous. So what, I should buy these shirts that show outwardly I'm not like those people who "take things too seriously"?

I'd rather not have to say a phrase and wear a shirt to claim I'm a better person.

In fact, I wouldn't claim I'm a better person.

That's why I don't like Fly Casual. It's bragging, it's judgement of others, the ideals people claim it promotes aren't even upheld by its creator.

Bringing out the worst in people? You mean how Doug Kinney's "Fly Casual" mentality caused him to say, "**** you" to Paul Heaver?

Fly Casual has done nothing but fill the community with militant casuals that fly sloppy and /expect/ to have their missed triggers be granted to them, like Bonzo Madrid.

Fly Casual was basically a Star Wars-ified version of Wheaton's Law, aka Don't Be a ****.

To me, it has nothing to do with nebulous concepts of 'Sportsmanship', and certainly nothing so set in stone as 'Always allow missed actions' or 'never take an ID'.

So long as you don't act like an asshat over denying someone a missed opportunity etc. you're still Flying Casual. If your opponent tries to bully you into his definition of what 'Fly Casual' means, he's not Flying Casual.

That's why I don't like Fly Casual. It's bragging, it's judgement of others, the ideals people claim it promotes aren't even upheld by its creator.

Not it's not. Not if you're doing it right. And who cares if the creator doesn't want to fly by his own rules?

Bruce Wayne: People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy and I can't do that as Bruce Wayne. As a man, I'm flesh and blood, I can be ignored, I can be destroyed; but as a symbol... as a symbol I can be incorruptible, I can be everlasting.

Bruce Wayne is dead. Batman lives on.

Bringing out the worst in people? You mean how Doug Kinney's "Fly Casual" mentality caused him to say, "**** you" to Paul Heaver?

Fly Casual has done nothing but fill the community with militant casuals that fly sloppy and /expect/ to have their missed triggers be granted to them, like Bonzo Madrid.

I'll keep telling you until you understand: those people, Doug Kinney included in this instance, are not Flying Casual. Maybe if you didn't retaliate against the militant casuals with a sh*tty attitude of your own, they could see the light and improve their own attitudes, their game, and your local X-Wing scene. Food for thought for your next tournament.

This will be my last post on this particular side conversation.

I understand that hothie and his friend didn't profit on it. That does not disprove that the post was about selling t-shirts, just that hothie and his buddy did not gain anything monetarily from it.

So the fact that someone sold Fly Casual T-shirts means Fly Casual is solely about selling T-shirts.

I see what he's trying to make it about, promoting fun and being courteous. So what, I should buy these shirts that show outwardly I'm not like those people who "take things too seriously"?

If the point of the effort is to promote fun and being courteous, publicly supporting it does two things: raises its visibility, and lets people know that what they can expect from you is a fun and courteous experience. I don't understand why either of those would be a bad thing.

That's why I don't like Fly Casual. It's bragging, it's judgement of others, the ideals people claim it promotes aren't even upheld by its creator.

Hothie lost his temper, which is unfortunate. But it does not at all imply that Fly Casual is a cynical effort to manipulate people into buying T-shirts.

Sorry, new to the forum, so hopefully this hasn't been answered before, but can anyone explain to me exactly why FFG think this rule is necessary?

I've seen a post saying to "promote fair play", but I don't understand how this rule does that. What exactly is the problem they are trying to fix?

Honestly, nobody knows.