I can't even sell my SC coin for a decent price. Everyone has wanted less than $10.

I'd probably pay $10-15 for it. It's a shiny affectation, but it's one I'd like since I missed my chance to earn it by pure circumstance. That said, the prices people are asking for them here are insane; anything from three to six times that. The after-market for these things is hilariously artificially over-inflated.

Funny thing is, I posted mine on eBay at the same prices as others at the time. Within days the sales dropped in price by half. I adjusted mine down a couple times, always with the option for someone to make an offer. All the offers I got were less than $10 and I would counter-offer lower than i had posted and everyone just chose to decline instead of continuing to haggle.

When I go to events I go to play a great game with great people. I love driving several hours on a Saturday to see people I haven't in some time, people I only really converse with on Facebook or these forums between larger events. To enjoy a drink, shoot some ships (and ****), and have a great time. Its not about the prize support or winning.

If that's true for you, then why do you care about IDs? What other people choose to do in their matches doesn't stop you from playing yours. If you don't care about winning prizes, what do you care at all?

More importantly: It is easy to set up a facebook group or some other community page and just start events without following FFG rules. Allow proxy cards, use a better tournament structure and make the event more competitive and more fly casual at the same time. You still can meet up with everyone, ignore the ID ruling completely and the only downside is that you might want to pay prices out of entry fees. No big deal, right?

And correct me if I am wrong, but the seasonal store kits should be even still available for those events. TOs can organized events like they want outside of regionales, nationals and SCs.

Oh my, this forum sure has become a lot less enjoyable since the whole ID thing happened. The only thing regretable about the issue is how it split an excellent community in a really hurtfull way.

I think the "Win at any Cost" attitude is rapidly destroying the "Fly Casual" attitude.

Match fixing (yeaa mate we both get 3 points), Tharlin-gate (I'll just change my dials while my opponent isn't looking), I have ID number 1 I'll go starlight to the finally please etc

The need to win seems to be greater then the need to have fun. Yes we all play to win but some have to win a board game at all costs because their ego wont let you do anything else.

I think the "Win at any Cost" attitude is rapidly destroying the "Fly Casual" attitude.

To call what happened at that regional a WAAC attitude shows a shocking lack of understanding of what actually happened.

I think the "Win at any Cost" attitude is rapidly destroying the "Fly Casual" attitude.

Match fixing (yeaa mate we both get 3 points), Tharlin-gate (I'll just change my dials while my opponent isn't looking), I have ID number 1 I'll go starlight to the finally please etc

The need to win seems to be greater then the need to have fun. Yes we all play to win but some have to win a board game at all costs because their ego wont let you do anything else.

No more than the militant casual.

This will be my last comment on this topic because frankly I'm bored with it. I'm especially tired of the massive hyperbole this has caused.

Unless you're the type of player who's likely to make it into the top 8 of a regional or beyond, the ID ruling is unlikely to have any real impact on you.

Anyone who feels the need to sell out their X-Wing collection and quit the game completely over something that will not affect them in the least, is someone I think we are quite frankly better off without in this community.

Yeah, the hyperboles are indeed very tiresome and they destroy most productive, result orientated discussions on topic. But I guess it was commonly agree to that it would be a bad idea to allow IDs to change tournament results. It still a minor thing, but I don't see how people can advocate for it. Removing draws altogether is a trivial thing as well and it would improve the game imho in general anyway.

Unless you're the type of player who's likely to make it into the top 8 of a regional or beyond, the ID ruling is unlikely to have any real impact on you.

I don't think that's true. First, in a typical tournament you'll see at least one player pushed off the bubble by IDs.

The undefeated player/s should always ID, which still compresses the cut because one of those players should have been X-1 and will now be X-0-1 instead. And X-1 players with high MOV should also ID. It's a more complicated decision, because it depends on how many players are in each of the top score groups, but there will usually be room for at least the second table to ID, and sometimes the third table as well.

So I think it's fair to say that you'll usually see between two and four players draw into the cut, representing at least one match where the loser would have been put on the bubble--but instead has a secure spot in the cut.

Anyone who feels the need to sell out their X-Wing collection and quit the game completely over something that will not affect them in the least, is someone I think we are quite frankly better off without in this community.

I'm not quitting X-wing, but I'm seriously evaluating whether I want to continue to travel for Formal and Premier events. There's a big cost in terms of missed work and missed family time, as well as hotel and travel costs, and Organized Play is sending terrible signals right now.

The ID rule itself is one possible solution to the problem of fake matches where opponents are deliberately playing for a draw. But that's much less plausible and much more time-consuming in X-wing than in many other games, and as a result it has shown up very rarely. And the fact that it was introduced to all of FFG's competitive games simultaneously suggests that Organized Play is interested in sweeping, one-size-fits-all solutions rather than actually looking at what's best for each game.

Furthermore, the "official response" that was (apparently) sent by email to a number of TOs who asked questions and was publicized by the folks at Sentry Box is amazingly tone-deaf. Faced with an issue that galvanized an enormous community response on all sides, their (again, apparent) response was basically to say "We know it's hard to change, but this is just how competitive play works. Don't worry, we'll help you understand it."

And that's frankly offensive: my graduate degree and job involve helping groups understand the positive and negative effects of changes to large, complex systems. The problem isn't that I haven't thought about what IDs really mean or how they work, but rather that I do understand them, and I still think they're bad. So the "official response" indicates that OP has tunnel vision: their prior assumptions lead logically to their conclusions, and they haven't realized that not everyone shares those assumptions. That's a pretty common form of reasoning (look at the comment thread under almost any political article online, for instance), but people who do communication and marketing for a living should definitely know better.

Taking all of that into account, it looks to me as if Organized Play is putting X-wing in a very bad situation because they're simply not thinking about it: Magic uses Swiss qualifying rounds with a standings-based cut to single-elimination (and Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon, etc.), so FFG games should too. Those systems have IDs, so FFG games should too. Netrunner needs X, Y, and Z, so X-wing can't possibly need A, B, and C instead.

I'd be happy to have my mind changed, of course. But I think they're driving in the wrong direction, and I don't think I care to follow them over a cliff.

it would be a bad idea to allow IDs to change tournament results.

I'll break my word above to say this much.

I don't think anyone is in favor of a system in which people can lock making the cut by not playing, when playing could very well knock them out of the cut.

But I see nothing wrong with it when the two people playing wouldn't have their standing changed in a meaningful way taking the game off.

Towards that end I think a ID awarding 0 points would be fine. Because if myself and the other guy are 10 points ahead of 9th place, a loss isn't going to knock either of us out of the top 8. If the game means nothing in the standings then I see nothing wrong with those players skipping it, if they so chose.

So the ID does have a place but only in a more narrow set of situations than it currently does.

but I'm seriously evaluating whether I want to continue to travel for Formal and Premier events.

Nothing wrong with that, but based on your past posts I think you were considering that anyway. I got no problem with people who won't go to official tournaments, but X-Wing is more than just OP events.

That last part is my big issue. People throwing out the baby with the bathwater. People who don't even show up to tournaments bristling with "righteous indignation" calling people names, calling for people to be banned, ect..

Don't like what the OP is doing? Don't be part of the OP system, but X-Wing is way larger than the OP.

There goes Vorpal again fishing for likes with his well thought out, and well constructed, responses.

In all seriousness; I completely agree that the email from ffg was tone deaf. Personally, I was more flabbergasted by the fact that they have yet to post an official response. In marketing strategy, and crisis management, putting out fires swiftly and efficiently is not just a recommended practice, it is an absolute necessity.

I can see their pov being that they want a larger data set prior to making a drastic change so close on the heels of their last FAQ. Especially considering that what happened at Roanoke was a perfect storm that lead to an occurrence that should be relatively rare. As a business that is a perfectly reasonable position to take. however, they at this point MUST say something soon or risk alienating their consumer base. Even if it is "hey we know X happened, we are looking into it but we want to give ID a fair go" that would sufficient.

but I'm seriously evaluating whether I want to continue to travel for Formal and Premier events.

Nothing wrong with that, but based on your past posts I think you were considering that anyway. I got no problem with people who won't go to official tournaments, but X-Wing is more than just OP events.

That last part is my big issue. People throwing out the baby with the bathwater. People who don't even show up to tournaments bristling with "righteous indignation" calling people names, calling for people to be banned, ect..

Don't like what the OP is doing? Don't be part of the OP system, but X-Wing is way larger than the OP.

Some people like to play organized, actually a lot people do like to play their hobby in a competitive sports way. FFGs OP seems not to deliver on that. And self-organizing such events without financial motivation usually takes some time, can be annoying and would be a direct competition to FFG right now. So, you surely get why people would prefer to keep playing at FFG events.

But hey, I am lucky. my city has a Independent league running anyway, classic double round robin, so the whole mess might only hurt the FLGS which might sell less cards when people decide to rather focus on independent events and are free to use vassal or proxies, etc in their competitive x-wing environments.

I'm not quitting X-wing, but I'm seriously evaluating whether I want to continue to travel for Formal and Premier events. There's a big cost in terms of missed work and missed family time, as well as hotel and travel costs, and Organized Play is sending terrible signals right now.

The ID rule itself is one possible solution to the problem of fake matches where opponents are deliberately playing for a draw. But that's much less plausible and much more time-consuming in X-wing than in many other games, and as a result it has shown up very rarely. And the fact that it was introduced to all of FFG's competitive games simultaneously suggests that Organized Play is interested in sweeping, one-size-fits-all solutions rather than actually looking at what's best for each game.

Furthermore, the "official response" that was (apparently) sent by email to a number of TOs who asked questions and was publicized by the folks at Sentry Box is amazingly tone-deaf. Faced with an issue that galvanized an enormous community response on all sides, their (again, apparent) response was basically to say "We know it's hard to change, but this is just how competitive play works. Don't worry, we'll help you understand it."

I don't live in the Mid-West and it's even worse for me to try to travel around for "big" events. I decided this January that I wasn't going to go to any Store Championships or tournaments. They have lost their appeal to me. While I've been perfecting my 4 Tie Bomber list to smash the meta, I just lost interest in playing the same types of lists over and over again. I'm actually pretty happy about it and managed to save money.

FFG has stated several times in interviews that they always expected to move beyond the 100 pt tournament and were surprised that it still remained so popular. I keep thinking of this and hope they have a plan. Earlier FFG did make statements about big changes to Organized Play. So far we have seen the Open series and I was a little let down. Next, we see them make this change about Draws. From my perspective, the game has gotten so bloody cut throat at the tournament level that it makes perfect sense to me. What I am now hoping is that they also introduce a new and different version of Organized Play. Let there be the uber and hyper competitive level of X-wing, but how about something else for the rest of us? I'm hoping that they are laser focusing their player base to be able to introduce another type of event. Hyper Competitive players (because really, all players are actually competitive) will go towards the 100 pt death match, but maybe there is something else for those that want a story or missions or something else. Team events? Epic? Something.

I have to admit when I first heard of Assault at Imdaar Alpha, I thought it was some sort of themed event. Or that there was some sort of back story. Or....something other than just a cool name for a standard tournament. I would even love to see something like GW used to do with global campaigns. You play your local games and report them online. Maybe have special missions or unique pilots available or your standard game, but you report all your wins/loses online on a big map. It created an online narrative that went for 6 weeks or so. I think that would be really cool.

I continue to marvel at how the players on this forum (on both sides of this debate, and myself included) think that those here represent the typical player.

I have never seen statistics, but just like with SW minis, I *think* the truly passionate are here, and those who go to tournaments are here, but do they represent even 5% of those who play X-Wing? Looking at the sales FFG is garnering, I'd say not likely.

Do those who play in tournaments represent even 10% of the people here on this forum? Again, I doubt it.

What I do dislike is how these divisive issues arise and because of how other disagreements in the past are held onto (old grudges, really), they fan the flames into visceral responses.