Lets start out by saying this. A lot of X Wing players have played other games, both miniature and not. Some of these, like Magic the Gathering, have the potential to give a player tons of incentive to win at all cost (WAAC) due to the great prize support. Namely cash. They also foster some of the worst human emotions and actions. I have seen Magic players (not to mention Pokemon and Yu Gi Oh) get so upset that they break down and cry, flip tables, and even ripped up cards. We also hate the stuff that Games Workshop does where Power Creep is very much a thing and players are almost REQUIRED to buy the biggest and best thing each time it is released just to stay competitive. Due to the ultra high competitive scene, cheating occurs quite frequently, and even in the local area many players have been banned from playing due to cheating.

FFG games, until now, have great prize support, but nothing truly amazing. Yes, granted, cool new dice, great alternate art cards, hell, collect enough coins and you can use them as shield tokens. (Hey, I know Brad Miller and love to see him play. Heck, at the start of the Store Championship season I traded him my Phantom Dial because his were so worn out and loose - and I don't play it anyway. This is not meant to be mean, I get the joke with him and would have laughed my ass off if I ever play him and his list with 8 coins and shield tokens......) The only true value is what one could get on Ebay, which while nice, isn't a ton of money for more common items. But even for rarer items like dice they still only go for $100 or so. But then the System Open happened and for the first time FFG has handed out some serious prize support with some substantial cash value. I mean, all expenses paid trip to London! Hell yah!

Doug Kinney did X-Wing its biggest favor by introducing the Fly Casual system. This initiative was one of the biggest draws in X-Wing. Especially from someone coming from 40k or another hyper competitive WAAC game. What I mean is, while X-Wing is a great game and has an excellent competitive scene, players play to have fun and enjoy the great game. Players play for the honor of the win, not for the prize support. World Champions Doug and Paul are great ambassadors to the game and generally (this whole ID fiasco notwithstanding) exemplify the entire Fly Casual idea. Sure, Paul may go in depth and plan and prepare and work and try to win (to the extent that he even does a presentation on what to expect, or what he thinks will happen), but seeing him play, well, he plays very well. And still manages to live up to the Fly Casual mentality.

Now, lets come to the crux of the post. Intentional Draws. How often will they happen? Who knows. Hopefully only at large events like Regionals and up. I hope they don't start to become common occurrences at Store Championships or even smaller events with the kits. What I do know is this --- If the prize support for top 4/8/16 is so **** important to you, go and buy it on eBay. When I go to events I go to play a great game with great people. I love driving several hours on a Saturday to see people I haven't in some time, people I only really converse with on Facebook or these forums between larger events. To enjoy a drink, shoot some ships (and ****), and have a great time. Its not about the prize support or winning.

However, now FFG (specifically their Organized Play section) has decreed that people must now WAAC. The concept of Fly Casual has gone away. The X Wing game I have played for years has ended.

So, what am I going to do? Its simple. I am going to vote with my pocketbook. I will NOT buy any FFG product until something changes that makes ID's either useless (except for the x-0 top 1/2 people in the last round) or something happens to the tournament format that makes ID's rarely viable. Yes, that means that the Rebellion game I was going to buy this weekend and really enjoy playing on April 30th for International Tabletop day, the 2nd ISD for Armada, all of it. I will NOT support a game developer that promotes the WAAC mentality. Bring back the Fly Casual. Bring back the FUN

Once again, fly casual was originally about selling t-shirts.

Tournaments will still be fun for me and if I am not making the cut because someone at the top 8 takes an ID, Ill be sad that I was not able to play better in the earlier rounds. I wont throw a tantrum or be angry at anyone.

Flying Casual and winning still coexist and taking an ID is imo fair if you are in the position to do so.

I´ll still buy and play X-Wing as well

every thing was fine in X wing world until IDs some how made it into the rules and its a very easy problem to fix

once they do I hope the fix the only other problem and get rid of those coins

then everything will be good again

I can't even sell my SC coin for a decent price. Everyone has wanted less than $10.

When I go to events I go to play a great game with great people. I love driving several hours on a Saturday to see people I haven't in some time, people I only really converse with on Facebook or these forums between larger events. To enjoy a drink, shoot some ships (and ****), and have a great time. Its not about the prize support or winning.

If that's true for you, then why do you care about IDs? What other people choose to do in their matches doesn't stop you from playing yours. If you don't care about winning prizes, what do you care at all?

The coin is the only piece of prize support I've ever found appealing. The acrylics and alt-art cards are nice in a way, but they have zero draw for me at all. I've got a stack of those acrylics gathering dust. The medals were even worse; I really didn't like those at all. Heck, even the Yavin Open isn't an appealing prize, and it's the best they've ever done. It'd cost me more to go to the open than it would to go to Celebration in London on my own dime.

In fact, the last SC I took part in was the first time I've been in any of the officially supported tournaments for anything more than a bit of fun. I actually did want Top 4 for the first time, to get my hands on a coin (and then my other half sabotaged my bid by locking herself out of the house, and causing me to leave 10 minutes into the first round...).

This seems off topic, but in my mind, if someone is playing in a manner that causes them to show a lack of respect or understanding for their opponents over some coloured cardboard, and an oddly coloured set of dice, they need to seriously work out some personal issues. I can't for the life of me believe that people are that serious about the game. Everyone I've ever met has played because it's an enjoyable, sociable game. Sure, the SC's are taken a bit more seriously in that there's a touch more concentration and marginally fewer jokes traded between tables, but it's still a game played in good humour regardless of the outcome.

tl;dr

I'd like a coin, but anyone burning others to get a set of dice is losing sight of the concept of fun.

Intentional Draws. How often will they happen? Who knows. Hopefully only at large events like Regionals and up. I hope they don't start to become common occurrences at Store Championships or even smaller events with the kits.

People are competitive at their own level. They can't win a regional, but if someone can get a Vader Kit in a Store using this rule, they will use it. That's why this rule corrupts the very essence of this game even at small scale tournaments.

I can't even sell my SC coin for a decent price. Everyone has wanted less than $10.

if you cant by a ship with it then what good are they

maybe when the world currency's collapse they might be useful

Intentional Draws. How often will they happen? Who knows. Hopefully only at large events like Regionals and up. I hope they don't start to become common occurrences at Store Championships or even smaller events with the kits.

People are competitive at their own level. They can't win a regional, but if someone can get a Vader Kit in a Store using this rule, they will use it. That's why this rule corrupts the very essence of this game even at small scale tournaments.

I will never allow IDs in any event I am the TO for that is not at least a Store Championship. There is absolutely no reason to allow them at seasonal kit events.

Jim

If I may play devil's advocate here for a moment, there is a reason to allow them; it's in the rules. If both players agree, and there's no rule infringing reason why they can't do so, they're perfectly entitled to it. You'd actually be breaking the rules as a TO if you denied it on grounds of personal distaste.

That said, I'm not a fan of it, and can absolutely see your point.

So,

Do we now hate FFG/Asmodee more than we hate GW, or are the evil Nottingham Cartel still Public Enemy Number One?

Cheers

Baaa

Again the whole fly casual concept is to realize that what is at stake in these "competitive tournaments" is nothing more than something made from a tree and/or a little bit of metal (plaques, coins, cards, ect.) These tournaments don't carry that big $10,000 prize for 1st place so winning or loosing should not be important.

Now I can see both sides of the argument, with people calling slow play as against the rules. For me again I consider slow play taking time with rolling dice selecting actions setting dials and the such because that is not playing the game. Again with Intentional Draws the same argument goes as those draws are not playing the game.

However I can see if the TO decided to cut the last round of swiss for participants to go home sooner. Now does it mean that some who had the slim possibility of making the cut got cut out (pun not intended) yes. However I also understand participants both players and organizers not wanting to stay at a tournament longer than they have to.

I will admit at first I didn't understand how draws were possible. I thought the players just flew their ships around in circles and not shoot at each other (that I would say is a no go as it is a waste of time and not playing X-wing) However if the TO agreed to cut the last round of swiss and all the top 8 agreed to a truce to immediately proceed to the elimination bracket that could be okay.

Intentional Draws. How often will they happen? Who knows. Hopefully only at large events like Regionals and up. I hope they don't start to become common occurrences at Store Championships or even smaller events with the kits.

People are competitive at their own level. They can't win a regional, but if someone can get a Vader Kit in a Store using this rule, they will use it. That's why this rule corrupts the very essence of this game even at small scale tournaments.

I will never allow IDs in any event I am the TO for that is not at least a Store Championship. There is absolutely no reason to allow them at seasonal kit events.

Jim

FFGs Organized Play disagrees with you. If you do not wish to play by the Tournament rules, perhaps you should not TO.

If I may play devil's advocate here for a moment, there is a reason to allow them; it's in the rules. If both players agree, and there's no rule infringing reason why they can't do so, they're perfectly entitled to it. You'd actually be breaking the rules as a TO if you denied it on grounds of personal distaste.

That said, I'm not a fan of it, and can absolutely see your point.

Unofficial

Unofficial events are those without an Event Outline. This includes events which are not utilizing an FFG OP product, and events that are utilizing a non-championship FFG OP product without an Event Outline. FFG strongly recommends that unofficial tournament organizers communicate a tournament’s details to participants by utilizing the tournament tiers and structures defined in this document.

The Seasonal Kits are non-championship OP product so I am totally legal to run them however I **** well please with the store owner"s blessing and FFG can suck it. I guarantee not a single player at my FLGS will not play because I don't allow IDs.

Edited to add: There is no Intentional Draw rule in Epic Tournament Rule or Escalation Tournament Rules. The OP kit explicitly states it does not have to used for Standard Play Tournament either. It specifically calls out Leagues and "other formats".

So yeah, TO's are really only required to allow ID's at Store Championships and above level events (or something special like Hoth Open or Assault on Imdaar Alpha). Local Events are fair game for whatever the TO thinks will draw players.

Jim

Intentional Draws. How often will they happen? Who knows. Hopefully only at large events like Regionals and up. I hope they don't start to become common occurrences at Store Championships or even smaller events with the kits.

People are competitive at their own level. They can't win a regional, but if someone can get a Vader Kit in a Store using this rule, they will use it. That's why this rule corrupts the very essence of this game even at small scale tournaments.

I will never allow IDs in any event I am the TO for that is not at least a Store Championship. There is absolutely no reason to allow them at seasonal kit events.

Jim

FFGs Organized Play disagrees with you. If you do not wish to play by the Tournament rules, perhaps you should not TO.

Not correct. I am not in violation of any rules of OP by running non Standard Play events using non Championship kits. See my other reply for full details.

Jim

Intentional Draws?
Don't care. Don't see the problem.

Interesting. I was under the impression that the kits were considered a standard play event, and therfore subject to the same rules.

I would, however, make sure to communicate that to the players, just in case. I'd agree that I highly doubt anyone would not play just because you're disallowing intentional draws, but it's worth mentioning to participants. I'm sure I wasn't the only one under the impression that the same rules applied to kit events as SC events.

Just for clarity; I'm not at all criticising your decision to disallow them. I think it's a solid call.

Sorry, new to the forum, so hopefully this hasn't been answered before, but can anyone explain to me exactly why FFG think this rule is necessary?

I've seen a post saying to "promote fair play", but I don't understand how this rule does that. What exactly is the problem they are trying to fix?

Once again, fly casual was originally about selling t-shirts.

Once again, you're lying.

Maybe there is more to the game than tournaments? Maybe we can focus on having fun instead of trying to ensure top spots at high events?

So,

Do we now hate FFG/Asmodee more than we hate GW, or are the evil Nottingham Cartel still Public Enemy Number One?

Cheers

Baaa

GW are still Number One, for sure.

FFG have, however, closed the gap far more than I imagine anyone suspected they ever would.

Fly casual and stop caring about how games you are not a part of effect your rank.

There are those Epic ships that most people haven't ever flown. Maybe some games with them to take your mind off things? They are pretty fun once you get the hang of it.

The title troubles me.

ID's are going to affect a very tiny part of the X-Wing community over all. The mear fact that someone would think we lost the game we love because of this, says a lot more about the people who feel that way then anything FFG has done.