So I'm relatively new to the game and have played a few casual games, but thought i'd try my hand at making a list that I could really practice with. Apologies if someone has made this before since it doesn't seem revolutionary, but wanted to try to piece it all together.

Inquisitor: Title, AT, PTL

Whisper: Adaptability, FCS, Weapons Engineer (I'd imagine Gunner might be better but I don't own the card yet), ACD

Omega Leader: Juke, Comm Relay

Total: 98

I'm not entirely sure how this would actually play out so I'm certainly going to give it a try.

I really wanted to try to fit Maarek Stele in the list above, but it is a tight fit. The best I've found with that combo is to drop OL and build it out like this:

Inquisitor: Title, AT, PTL

Whisper: Adaptability, ACD

Maarek Stele: Title, EU, ATC, Adaptability

Total: 99

This list would give me a straight PS 8 and allow everyone to move and shoot at the same time, which seems good. The idea would be to shoot Maarek last and let him plink hull if possible.

Thoughts?

I personally find this list rather amusing. Decent damage output, and I like the thought behind it. Personally, the way it looks, your TIE Phantom is going to be your damaging ace, so I recommend stacking him with your points before your other dudes. In my personal experience, I love flying my Phantom at 43 points, echo (being, in my opinion, the most annoying arc dodger and dangerous unit in the game still, despite people's cold shoulder to it) (30) Recon specialist (3) adv. cloaking device (4) adv. sensors (3) push the limit (3). This build is what I personally run, giving my Phantom 2 focus + extra action, movement, remove stress, then firing in the combat phase and cloaking right after. Now this dude is 43 points, so you have 57 left to play with. Now let's think about the rest of your list:

You want maarek stele in your list, and I personally think his ability is a little weak, only because you need to eat through shields before he becomes effective, unless your running him with Adv. homing missiles. Even still, it's a one trick pony from there. If you want to run him that bad however, The build you currently have for him is a bit pricy. The only modifications I would do is drop the ATC and pick up a FCS, which saves you 1 point to spend on VI. Just my opinion though.

As for the Inquisitor, your running it like an over priced TIE interceptor. 31 points for an extra attack and free target lock is okay, but to me, using a Royal interceptor title, AT, PTL, and SD seems like a better fit and more mobile unit in your build style.

Again, these are just my opinions. Blow me off, say I'm crazy, blah blah. It won't hurt my feelings. I believe in flying what you feel comfortable flying, I'm simply adding my 2 cents into the issue. Happy flying!

Thanks for the feedback and certainly none of your feedback is crazy at all. I'll certainly try swapping the Inquisitor build out for a TIE interceptor just to give it a whirl and the same really goes for Maarek. The general jist for the list is that you are 1.) All PS8, which though it doesn't sound too amazing will really allow you to play all 3 in the order you want 2.) All 3 of the ships are annoying and there isn't a clear go after X ship first

As to Maarek, it is a bit of a gimmick but I thought that ensuring you are pulling the Direct Hit crit will be extremely beneficial for killing enemy ships ASAP especially with all of the ordinance being a thing. This theme along with the idea that you can have him fire last so you can have him hopefully hit hull if possible. I'm not entirely sure if Maarek will stick, but am intrigued.

So with the idea of your Echo I was thinking something along the lines of this:

Carnor Jax: PTL, AT (31)

Echo: PTL, AS, RS, ACD (43)

Omega Leader: CR, Juke (26)

Total: 100

I've got the cards for this so will try it out for certain.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

No, the trick here is simple. BEFORE you show dial, you use Advanced sensors, giving you a free action (focus) and then recon give its a free focus on top. Them, you PTL off the recon to preform another action of choice. Then you can decloak, or straight into a green move on your dial, clearing your stress and freeing your ship up for an attack to get advance cloaking after the attack. That's why it's so good.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

How about swapping PTL out for VI? That would make Echo at 41 points and push the PS to 8. It would also put the list to 98, which would have a nice initiative bid.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

No, the trick here is simple. BEFORE you show dial, you use Advanced sensors, giving you a free action (focus) and then recon give its a free focus on top. Them, you PTL off the recon to preform another action of choice. Then you can decloak, or straight into a green move on your dial, clearing your stress and freeing your ship up for an attack to get advance cloaking after the attack. That's why it's so good.

That's pretty darn interesting and at least sounds good to me.

Thanks for the feedback and certainly none of your feedback is crazy at all. I'll certainly try swapping the Inquisitor build out for a TIE interceptor just to give it a whirl and the same really goes for Maarek. The general jist for the list is that you are 1.) All PS8, which though it doesn't sound too amazing will really allow you to play all 3 in the order you want 2.) All 3 of the ships are annoying and there isn't a clear go after X ship first

As to Maarek, it is a bit of a gimmick but I thought that ensuring you are pulling the Direct Hit crit will be extremely beneficial for killing enemy ships ASAP especially with all of the ordinance being a thing. This theme along with the idea that you can have him fire last so you can have him hopefully hit hull if possible. I'm not entirely sure if Maarek will stick, but am intrigued.

So with the idea of your Echo I was thinking something along the lines of this:

Carnor Jax: PTL, AT (31)

Echo: PTL, AS, RS, ACD (43)

Omega Leader: CR, Juke (26)

Total: 100

I've got the cards for this so will try it out for certain.

This looks really nice. I would advise you switch juke with decoy, that way Omega can let Echo shoot at PS 8, giving Echo his ACD before he begins taking fire.

Also, Jax is a really fun pilot to play. But to make him a little more survivable, I'd drop the PTL for SD. The +1 defense dice to me is worth a lot more than another action. Or you could drop the Comm Relay on the TIE F/O and put the points on Jax for a hard hitting Intercetor. That'll give your opponent trouble deciding on what he wants to take out first...

•crazy annoying 5 attack Echo who'll shred me to the bone

•frenzy pilot who shuts down my token usage (JUMPMASTERS IM TALKING TO YOU)

• Omega Leader which prevents me from changing my results... *sets fire to Target lock and Focus token*

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

No, the trick here is simple. BEFORE you show dial, you use Advanced sensors, giving you a free action (focus) and then recon give its a free focus on top. Them, you PTL off the recon to preform another action of choice. Then you can decloak, or straight into a green move on your dial, clearing your stress and freeing your ship up for an attack to get advance cloaking after the attack. That's why it's so good.

I still disagree. The greens on a TIE Phantom are too restrictive even with AS.

AS/PTL limits you to 2 straight, 3 straight, or 2 banks. Not to mention it costs 4 points more than FCS/VI.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

No, the trick here is simple. BEFORE you show dial, you use Advanced sensors, giving you a free action (focus) and then recon give its a free focus on top. Them, you PTL off the recon to preform another action of choice. Then you can decloak, or straight into a green move on your dial, clearing your stress and freeing your ship up for an attack to get advance cloaking after the attack. That's why it's so good.

I still disagree. The greens on a TIE Phantom are too restrictive even with AS.

AS/PTL limits you to 2 straight, 3 straight, or 2 banks. Not to mention it costs 4 points more than FCS/VI.

Since that would free up some more points where would you recommend using those? My thoughts would be:

Carnor Jax: Title, PTL, AT, HU or SD? (34)

Echo: VI, FCS, RS, ACD (40)

Omega Leader: CR, Juke (26)

Total: 100

As to the limitations on the phantom for stress in this scenario I think I'll play test it both ways just to see how it plays since it does sound really interesting and potentially very powerful, but can see the benefits to taking FCS/VI just to free up the points and get the most out of Echo's attack.

Stress management on Echo:

To shred the stress from PTL when you become decloaked you have to use the 2 bank (because Echo), which is a green maneuver so that would immediately shed the stress just by the mandatory decloaking maneuver correct? I'm not entirely sure I see where there would be an issue with stress management other than you would not want to use PTL on a turn you didn't intend to attack unless it was critical or it naturally made sense to use a green maneuver.

Personally I would take Whisper [VI, FCS, Intel, ACD] over a 40-point Echo.

The PS9 is big against Soontir, Vader, Inquisitor, etc. Even if you don't get the initiative against enemy PS9's, you'll either get your 4 agi or a chance to BR out of arc.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

No, the trick here is simple. BEFORE you show dial, you use Advanced sensors, giving you a free action (focus) and then recon give its a free focus on top. Them, you PTL off the recon to preform another action of choice. Then you can decloak, or straight into a green move on your dial, clearing your stress and freeing your ship up for an attack to get advance cloaking after the attack. That's why it's so good.

P.S. Sorry I quoted the wrong post, I think it was Mr. Sunshine who might have suggested that.

when I first started running phantoms I was using

echo with ptl AS too and it works really well

I suppose 2 focus & evade is nice, but I find I use my hard turns almost every time.

I mean, a decloak into hard-1 is like the Phantom move.

You don't want PTL on Echo. Stress is terrible for Phantoms as it prevents ACD from activating.

No, the trick here is simple. BEFORE you show dial, you use Advanced sensors, giving you a free action (focus) and then recon give its a free focus on top. Them, you PTL off the recon to preform another action of choice. Then you can decloak, or straight into a green move on your dial, clearing your stress and freeing your ship up for an attack to get advance cloaking after the attack. That's why it's so good.

Decloaking doesn't clear stress

P.S. Sorry I quoted the wrong post, I think it was Mr. Sunshine who might have suggested that.

Ahh I see, thanks for the clarification.

I was initially leaning towards playing Whisper over Echo as well, but think I may try both out and see which one fits better. So that leaves me with the following lists:

Carnor Jax: Title, PTL, AT, HU or SD? (34)

Echo: VI, FCS, RS, ACD (40)

Omega Leader: CR, Juke (26)

Total: 100

Carnor Jax: Title, PTL, AT, HU or SD? (34)

Whisper: VI, FCS, IA, ACD (40)

Omega Leader: CR, Juke (26)

Total: 100

Carnor Jax: PTL, AT (31)

Echo: PTL, AS, RS, ACD (43)

Omega Leader: CR, Juke (26)

Total: 100

The nice thing about the lists where Carnor is sitting at 31 I could swap him out for the standard inquisitor build (Title,PTL, AT). For the 34 point Carnor I could swap the inquisitor and then use the other 3 points to toss a Hull upgrade of SD on Omega Leader. Ohh the options and I think it is time to play some of these and just see what gels right.

PTL on Echo also works as a reaction to the free cloak ability that ACD gives, and doesn't require the Adv. Sensors, freeing up room for FCS. I personally run Echo like this: Echo, PTL, FCS, ACD, RC (though I'm tempted to go Recon Spec. now, good idea). Decloak. Move, action. Shoot, spend TL (if you have it from FCS). Recloak. PTL for an evade (or focus or BR, whatever's left on the action bar). Use FCS to reacquire TL. Next turn, you're starting with a stress, but that doesn't prevent decloaking. Echo's rather unpredictable decloak position means that there are actually a LOT of places that a 2-bank or 2-3 straight could leave you, especially with barrel roll available. So now you decloak, move a green, and lather-rinse-repeat.

So all the things that involve either movement or token with this build is:
Decloak (like a wicked twisty 2-barrel roll or boost)

move 2-bank to clear stress
1-2 focus tokens (depending on Recon Spec) OR evade, depending on opponent's PS

shoot and spend TL
Cloak
PTL-evade or 1-2 focus or barrel roll

acquire fresh TL

edit: if you're now out of position for a good follow up turn, then don't PTL, just recloak and FCS as normal, which opens up the entire dial.

My favorite Phantom list:

PTL + advanced sensors is ultimately better than using PTL off of the advanced cloaking device. You absolutely do not want to be starting your next turn stressed. What makes Echo amazing is his unpredictability. Being stressed limits that significantly.

PTL + advanced sensors does work well on Echo as long as you don't try to use the 'trick' every single turn. You don't need to push the limit all the time. 2 focus + evade is only necessary when Echo is very likely to be taking fire (unless you face turrets, that should not be often).

Having said that, using Push the Limit effectively on a phantom takes a LOT of practice. You will screw up and lose your phantom quite a bit before you learn the in and outs. If you don't like a long slow process of learning the hard way, then I suggest going with Whisper. She's so much easier to use, and in some matchups, she's actually more effective...

The other thing with PTL on Echo is leaving him at PS 6. Gives many many more opportunities to shoot before the cloak activates from ACD. Opposing Aces will chew him up regularly without some help. I'd recommend starting out with VI and FCS on you Phantoms get a feel for their movement then play with the builds to run at the lower PS.