I don't think it is the lack of ships though. I've played 50 pts games that ended within an hour.
It is probably due to the 2-attack 3-defense bubble you were in. Surprised that poe didn't kill anything though.

But my first games took 2+ hours to finish up. How long did you play?

This is what they were worried about in Roanoke, so they just decided to declare it a draw from the beginning instead.

I'd wager, also, that it's the number of dice and the odds. On average, a single attack dice has a 50% chance of rolling a hit/crit. A green dice has what, around a 35% chance of rolling an evade? Using those numbers, and the ratio of dice, you're looking at almost exactly one hit and one evade, consistently, per round of shooting, which is a net 0 result when it comes to laying some damage down. I'd also suggest to make sure that you're only taking one action per turn (except for vader, of course), and when you do take two actions, you can't take the same action twice. Also, you are spending the tokens, right? Not just saying "i have an eyeball, so that's an evade"?

Vader without the title and the advanced targeting computer does not hit very hard, and the tie fo is under gunned for the price you pay.

Really the imperial player was facing an uphill struggle from the onset.

OP just keep playing you'll pick your moves better figure out how to best use actions games will get quicker.

Well, there are a couple of things.

1) Try playing the missions. They aren't that bad. They give you something to focus on other than just circling each other for pot shots.

2) Print out proxies for all the cards that you want. There was a fix for the Tie Advanced that makes it a much better ship, but you have to buy the Epic ship for it. If you are just starting out, you might just want to proxy that card until you can get it. It will make the Tie Advanced even deadlier. Do the same for all the upgrades you want. It will help making your dice rolls more effective.

Mostly because you most likely didn't stack up tons of offensive upgrades, but instead played super-tanky dudes like Poe or Vader

Played what we had... spent enough on Armada so far, wanted to make sure we really enjoy the game before we buy into it more.

It is not the first time we read something like this in these forums either. Last year there was an user that complained on X-Wing games being a snorefest where nobody could hit each other. Most people here dismissed that user as a troll, but I think it could maybe have not after all.

Recently, I brought my whole collection of X-Wing to my young, 12 years old, nephew. He is a huge Star Wars fan, and specially fan of the starfighter battles on the movies.

We played a 100 points game full with all the upgrades and tricks to be tournament viable. After like 20 minutes of us playing, he was bored to death, with comments like "This game is really slow" or "Why the ships stop to shoot and they miss?"

He left in the middle of the game while saying that what takes like 20 seconds in the movies, it takes longer than 1 hour in this game.

I was feeling really disappointed, because I thought he would love it as much as I (we) do.

Perhaps it is just that this game's pacing it still too slow for some people's tastes. Or maybe miniature games are not for everybody.

I mean, I play Armada every week. I tithe a fair amount of income to FFG for minatures.

I'd wager, also, that it's the number of dice and the odds. On average, a single attack dice has a 50% chance of rolling a hit/crit. A green dice has what, around a 35% chance of rolling an evade? Using those numbers, and the ratio of dice, you're looking at almost exactly one hit and one evade, consistently, per round of shooting, which is a net 0 result when it comes to laying some damage down. I'd also suggest to make sure that you're only taking one action per turn (except for vader, of course), and when you do take two actions, you can't take the same action twice. Also, you are spending the tokens, right? Not just saying "i have an eyeball, so that's an evade"?

We were doing our b est to make sure we spent everything as we used them.

It sounds like it was more about the 2 atk/3 evade ships we brought.

We were doing our b est to make sure we spent everything as we used them.

It sounds like it was more about the 2 atk/3 evade ships we brought.

We're you guys maneuvering into range 1 to gain the bonus die? Two dice doesn't do much at range 2-3 against 3 agility, but close range... Well let's just say I've seen plenty of decimator die in a single turn. While yes that's against a 0 agility ship, that's still a lot of health to chew through.

We were doing our b est to make sure we spent everything as we used them.

It sounds like it was more about the 2 atk/3 evade ships we brought.

We're you guys maneuvering into range 1 to gain the bonus die? Two dice doesn't do much at range 2-3 against 3 agility, but close range... Well let's just say I've seen plenty of decimator die in a single turn. While yes that's against a 0 agility ship, that's still a lot of health to chew through.

We were, whether on purpose or not. 3 attack vs 3 evade when people have tokens stacked up made it tough. We're looking at an E-Wing and maybe some Interceptors to spice things up in the gameroom if you know what I'm saying...

...I'm saying we're gonna buy more stuff.

You want to tear rebels a new one get a defender and proxy the new titles.

We were doing our b est to make sure we spent everything as we used them.

It sounds like it was more about the 2 atk/3 evade ships we brought.

We're you guys maneuvering into range 1 to gain the bonus die? Two dice doesn't do much at range 2-3 against 3 agility, but close range... Well let's just say I've seen plenty of decimator die in a single turn. While yes that's against a 0 agility ship, that's still a lot of health to chew through.

We were, whether on purpose or not. 3 attack vs 3 evade when people have tokens stacked up made it tough. We're looking at an E-Wing and maybe some Interceptors to spice things up in the gameroom if you know what I'm saying...

...I'm saying we're gonna buy more stuff.

You mentioned tokens being stacked up. Were you removing the focus and evade tokens at the end of each round or leaving them on the ships. With the exception of Vader, Comm Relay, and Push the Limit, there shouldn't be multiple tokens on a ship (based on the expansions you have). (Apologies if you answered already, I'm at work and had to scan the post quickly.)

Otherwise, I agree with those that pointed out the 2 red, 3 green situation. It's going to be a slow battle for those types of ships. If you want, you could always flip those numbers, making it 3 red and 2 green and try that out before buying more ships.

We were doing our b est to make sure we spent everything as we used them.

It sounds like it was more about the 2 atk/3 evade ships we brought.

We're you guys maneuvering into range 1 to gain the bonus die? Two dice doesn't do much at range 2-3 against 3 agility, but close range... Well let's just say I've seen plenty of decimator die in a single turn. While yes that's against a 0 agility ship, that's still a lot of health to chew through.

We were, whether on purpose or not. 3 attack vs 3 evade when people have tokens stacked up made it tough. We're looking at an E-Wing and maybe some Interceptors to spice things up in the gameroom if you know what I'm saying...

...I'm saying we're gonna buy more stuff.

With only a few ships...and those ships being high agility ships that can stack tokens....I can see the issue. Lots of highly defensive ships do great against one or two attacks, but massed fire can bring down Soontir Fel and those of his ilk. If you have a limited collection, then you can't really do that. Until you do, there are a few things you can try.

1) Ordnance can pack a heavy punch. Homing Missiles won't let someone use an Evade token. That is an attack that can smash someone quickly, even a tokened up ship.

2) Grab some Elite Pilot Talents that will help. I'm thinking Predator, Crack Shot, Outmaneuver, and a few others. Proxy the cards. These will help make your attacks more effective.

3) Really try the missions. If you guys aren't circling each other constantly and actually moving towards an objective, then you might manage to get the hits off.

4) Don't always go for the pilots that are beasts to kill? Limit your lists on purpose?

One of the most boring games of X-Wing I've played ended with an A-Wing and TIE Advanced circling each other around an asteroid. We quit that one after several rounds of "can't get a shot." It sounds like you're "new to the game" but not "new to games," so I assume you're playing everything right (or close to it); as others have said, it's likely your blend of ships that struggle to do enough damage to the opponent.

So what will fix it? Fly something different. The suggestion of a Rebel Y-Wing (or B-Wing) is a good one, and a TIE Bomber or Punisher will add a new level to your maneuver planning and approach to combat (also, bombs). Or you could wait a couple of months and grab the Imperial Veterans pack and Rebel Aces- both should be a fair value for what you get and give new spice to your tabletop action.

One of the most boring games of X-Wing I've played ended with an A-Wing and TIE Advanced circling each other around an asteroid. We quit that one after several rounds of "can't get a shot." It sounds like you're "new to the game" but not "new to games," so I assume you're playing everything right (or close to it); as others have said, it's likely your blend of ships that struggle to do enough damage to the opponent.

So what will fix it? Fly something different. The suggestion of a Rebel Y-Wing (or B-Wing) is a good one, and a TIE Bomber or Punisher will add a new level to your maneuver planning and approach to combat (also, bombs). Or you could wait a couple of months and grab the Imperial Veterans pack and Rebel Aces- both should be a fair value for what you get and give new spice to your tabletop action.

Yeah, that's what it sounds like. We're willing to throw a little more money at it; looking at getting the aces packs or a Y-Wing/Tie Interceptor, depending on money. This is mostly a diversion to Armada for me (he says now before spending all his money on X-Wing) so I want to make sure we're getting a good ROI in terms of enjoyable games before we buy in further.

We were doing our b est to make sure we spent everything as we used them.

It sounds like it was more about the 2 atk/3 evade ships we brought.

We're you guys maneuvering into range 1 to gain the bonus die? Two dice doesn't do much at range 2-3 against 3 agility, but close range... Well let's just say I've seen plenty of decimator die in a single turn. While yes that's against a 0 agility ship, that's still a lot of health to chew through.

We were, whether on purpose or not. 3 attack vs 3 evade when people have tokens stacked up made it tough. We're looking at an E-Wing and maybe some Interceptors to spice things up in the gameroom if you know what I'm saying...

...I'm saying we're gonna buy more stuff.

With only a few ships...and those ships being high agility ships that can stack tokens....I can see the issue. Lots of highly defensive ships do great against one or two attacks, but massed fire can bring down Soontir Fel and those of his ilk. If you have a limited collection, then you can't really do that. Until you do, there are a few things you can try.

1) Ordnance can pack a heavy punch. Homing Missiles won't let someone use an Evade token. That is an attack that can smash someone quickly, even a tokened up ship.

2) Grab some Elite Pilot Talents that will help. I'm thinking Predator, Crack Shot, Outmaneuver, and a few others. Proxy the cards. These will help make your attacks more effective.

3) Really try the missions. If you guys aren't circling each other constantly and actually moving towards an objective, then you might manage to get the hits off.

4) Don't always go for the pilots that are beasts to kill? Limit your lists on purpose?

Thanks for the help!

1. Homing Missiles were how I got one of his Tie/fo down to 1 hull. Bad rolling inhibited the rest.

2. We'll look into those. I'm no stranger to proxying cards from Armada (looking at you, XI7s!)

3. We just may!

4. We only had about 70 points worth of fleet total per side so we kitted them out as best we could to that end.

Hey, I was thru a similar experience when playing around with the basic dogfight using the Old Core set.

At first there was a lot of missed/ineffective shots and the whole thing didn't look as dynamic as advertised.

That was before we've learned a couple things, and just btw, while the designers have thoughtfully set the point limit at 31 - denying the Rebel player an option to equip Luke with R2-D2, 31 points still allowed the Empire to field Night Beast and Dark Curse, a nightmare duo to bring down. Bu oh, well.

Here's a couple things I'd recommend.:

- Put Weapons Guidance on Poe. This way you can nearly guarantee 3 hits on your rolls. Since his innate abiliy triggers at the same time as WG does, you get to chose the order for resolving them.

So if have a Focus token (and you would, since it's Poe dammit!) and roll hit-eye-blank, you turn the eye into a hit (Poe's pilot ability) THEN spend the Focus token to turn the blank into a hit as well.

Sure, you don't have a Focus for the defensive boost, but your damage output just went one dice higher on average (don't quote on real odds).

- Use proxies as mentioned before. Vader should not take off without Advanced Targetting Computer and Engine Upgrade. Generic TIE Advanced is very powerfull with Accuracy Correctors (FREE, points wise) which will guarantee 2 hits on your enemy every round, so you can spend the actions on defence or repositioning, wihout having to grab Target Lock and Focus to secure your shots.

You can equip the TIE/fo's with printed out Comm Relays and Juke, put Push the Limit on Omega Ace for a possibility of 2 crits every round or even print out the pilot cards from the TIE/fo expansion and enjoy the mini-ace Omega Leader, or Zeta Leader who can stress himself to get an extra attack die. The possibilities are endless, and you will have a lot more chances to land some hard hits.

- Make the game area smaller, to adjust for lower points, while still keeping the 6 rocks. You'll learn to maneouver and eye the distances quicker and the game will be much more exciting than simple jousting (read: flying straight at each-other, K-turning, rinse, repeat).

- Learn the art of blocking! With the sets you've got, both sides have access to PS1 low-cost, hight mobility units which are just screaming to be used as blockers.

This also relates to the point above, as there should be less room to avoid collisions (to compensate for lower total ships' count as compared to regular 100 pts game).

The first time I did a succesfull block on my friends' Soontir, I was amazed how effective that was. That pesky tank-wannabe is turtling up with loads of tokens? Make it bump into your cannon-fodder and he's sitting ducks now.

- Concentraaaate (your fire). You're having much better odds of putting some hurt on a ship that has already used up it's Focus/Evade and the dice won't smile at your opponent with every roll. Especially not Green Dice, oh no, these are a fickle bunch.

Have fun!

Rather than smaller ships, I would recommend getting a Falcon and a Slave 1.

Both of those ships have multiple fire arcs, meaning they shoot almost every turn, and both are much easier to hit due to having 1-2 green dice, rather than 3-4. Without stacking various upgrades like C-3PO on them, their main defence will be their HP total rather than how much they can dodge, which means damage actually happens, which means things die, and the game ends. Likewise their 3 red dice main guns will do lots of damage at Range 1, which can make a mess of fragile targets. For example if you manage to play Poe and Falcon and get someone into R1 of both, you're rolling 8 red dice from only two attacks, plus target locks, focus, and maybe Han Solo's pilot ability. For the Slave, both Krassis Trellix and Kath Scarlet provide good damage with either cannons or rear arc shooting, and can take bombs or ordnance for some near-certain damage being dealt.

Also, if worst comes to the worst, your collection will look better with a couple of large ships in than just a collection of small fighters, which makes it easier to sell on ebay.

You should try an intentional draw so you get to have the full "fair play experience" FFG wants.

You should try an intentional draw so you get to have the full "fair play experience" FFG wants.

Please stop.

It's enough that there's a dozen of threads specifically dedicated to this.

I for one am interested how THIS ONE develops, because I feel for the OP and I'm interested in what will others share on this.

You may have to change tactics in that situation to - blocking an opponents ship, so that it gets no actions, and setting up a TL + Focus shot, at range 1 can power through that kind of defense.

Both Aces packs are great buys considering what you already have. I'd also strongly recommend picking up the Most Wanted pack too, though it does start you down the trail of a third faction.

You should try an intentional draw so you get to have the full "fair play experience" FFG wants.

Please stop.

It's enough that there's a dozen of threads specifically dedicated to this.

I for one am interested how THIS ONE develops, because I feel for the OP and I'm interested in what will others share on this.

It was funny.

I ran some numbers this afternoon to figure out how this can happen and if there's anything tactically that can be done about it.

As I previously posted, 2 red dice versus 3 green dice is about a 30% chance of landing damage at range 2. If the defender is holding a focus ("eyeball") for defense, the chance drops to a meager 10%.

So, if everyone is flying defensive, splitting into one-on-one duels, staying at arm's length (range 2+) and holding their focus for defense, nothing much is going to happen.

What to do? The old WWII pilot adage of being aggressive, getting in close, and bringing a wingman applies here.

1) Aggression: instead of holding onto the focus for defense. If the attacker uses it up for the attack, it somewhat negates the defender's focus, and "doubles" your chance from 10% to 20% at range 2. Sure it makes you vulnerable, but if you want to punch someone, you're gonna have to expect to get punched back.

2) Get in close (range 1), and that adds +1 red die to your to-hit, and that boosts your odds to 40%, when everyone is using a focus.

3) Have a wingman to concentrate fire -- if the defender already used their focus against a previous attack, then if you're in close, using your focus for attack, against a target that doesn't have one, your odds jump to 70% of landing at least one damage (25% of landing 2 damage).

The Advanced Tie and Rebel ships have one more trick: the lock on. Locking on can be done from any angle, and persist across turns. The lock on allows you to re-roll any attack dice of you choosing, so typically allows rerolls of the dice that missed. It also stacks with a focus eyeball. So if you lock-on when you don't have a good shot, and save it to shoot later when you are in close and can add a focus, then your odds are still 66% of landing at least one damage against a nimble 3-green die ship using their focus in defense. If your wingman's attack forced them to use it, then your chance screams to 90% (40% to land 2 damage).

The X-wing only has 2 green dice. So applying these principles will hurt even Poe. If you use your focus for attack, you get almost 50/50 odds of landing damage up close. The Advanced Tie piling a lock on on top of that can get up to 75% to cause damage. If you can get Poe to collide or stress out so he can't use his special, then you're looking at 80-90% odds of doing damage in close.

Of course using your focus for attack will make your vulnerable, so you will have to make the tactical decision to do damage or play it safe, depending on positioning. But the game will certainly start to get more interesting when you do since everything will start to take damage.

So just academically from the numbers, I suspect the thing that the OP is missing is getting inside range 1, and aggressively using the focus eyeballs for attack rather than holding them for defense. To advance the game requires taking a chance and being aggressive. The challenge then, is moving your ships so they can get those range 1 shots or acquire a lockon as often as possible while minimizing being shot at without having a focus eyeball available for defense.

Nice primer.