2. Point out that there isn't a lot of increase in health in this game. Unless a player specifically focuses on increasing their Wound threshold, they're pretty much going to be as squishy later in game, as they were on day 1. Which is fitting for Star Wars. The heroes don't get hit very often, and when they do, it hurts . So point out that even the low level mooks you send at them on day 1, can still be a threat later on. Specifically, you won't run into the problem of having Stormtroopers (the iconic soldier of dread/evil from the movies), turning into a side thought, not worth considering. It won't be "oh great...more stormtroopers *yawn*" it will be "oh crap! more stormtroopers! run!"

A bit more on this: D20 pretty much assumes that the PCs will "win" every encounter, if you just stand there and take it. It's hard for some people to get out of that mentality, and it can be helpful to point them to how the movies are set up: the heroes are almost always on the run. This game is a lot more dynamic, and the players shouldn't expect to be tanks, at least not in the standard D20 way.

It seems to be the single biggest "NO! I don't wanna!" that players use, and FFG sort of made sure they could, by having the entire setting be encapsulated only in the time of the Empire, and the battle of the Rebellion. With so much "does this still count?" covering things like KOTOR era, the Clone Wars, NJO, Legacy, Force Unleashed, Rebels, and on, and them liking the excuse to keep the Force powers manageable/on par with what other characters can do, they have, so far, limited some of their audience, who maybe thought that the original movies were good, but really started to like Star Wars because of something else. For instance, while I like ESB and RotJ very much (a large portion of my childhood there, and no other movies I've watched as many times), I really didn't care for the prequels, as I thought bits of each were wrong, based on other writers, and I had some issues of my own with Clone Wars. I REALLY loved Kotor, though, and played the crap out of those three games, really liking their stories, even when the second one didn't have all of it, and I also enjoyed the New Jedi Order, both for some of the characters, and for doing what Warhammer 40K wouldn't; move the story along, and evolve their characters some.

Having said this, the bulk of FFG Star Wars is narrative, and the multitude of talents/powers you might think of getting are very neutral to a setting, coupled with star Wars' historical tendency to recycle elements of the past (most things in current are available in KOTOR, 4,000 years ago, and have probably just been lost, forgotten, and "reinvented" several times, as the Republic, the Jedi, and the Sith have each risen reigned, and fallen numerous times, along the way). With the exception of the "diminished" Force the system uses, which seems to be pretty good, once one learns how to use it, and invests a bit in it, any time frame SHOULD work; it's just a question of the players and GM knowing enough details to describe it. Unless you were wanting to play Obi-Wan, Luke, or Galen Marek, even the Force is in line with what you SHOULD have, and still have other players enjoying it. You should probably be able to tell your friends that the setting they want would work just fine, and port in the elements from Saga, your mind, or what have you, using the assets the current FFG books already give. By this stage, few people who can thoroughly grasp the rules mechanics of this game (I'm still struggling) should still have powerful excuses to refuse to play it; perhaps they just don't want change, or know that they can munchkin Saga Edition, more easily.

It seems to be the single biggest "NO! I don't wanna!" that players use, and FFG sort of made sure they could, by having the entire setting be encapsulated only in the time of the Empire, and the battle of the Rebellion. With so much "does this still count?" covering things like KOTOR era, the Clone Wars, NJO, Legacy, Force Unleashed, Rebels, and on, and them liking the excuse to keep the Force powers manageable/on par with what other characters can do, they have, so far, limited some of their audience, who maybe thought that the original movies were good, but really started to like Star Wars because of something else. For instance, while I like ESB and RotJ very much (a large portion of my childhood there, and no other movies I've watched as many times), I really didn't care for the prequels, as I thought bits of each were wrong, based on other writers, and I had some issues of my own with Clone Wars. I REALLY loved Kotor, though, and played the crap out of those three games, really liking their stories, even when the second one didn't have all of it, and I also enjoyed the New Jedi Order, both for some of the characters, and for doing what Warhammer 40K wouldn't; move the story along, and evolve their characters some.

Having said this, the bulk of FFG Star Wars is narrative, and the multitude of talents/powers you might think of getting are very neutral to a setting, coupled with star Wars' historical tendency to recycle elements of the past (most things in current are available in KOTOR, 4,000 years ago, and have probably just been lost, forgotten, and "reinvented" several times, as the Republic, the Jedi, and the Sith have each risen reigned, and fallen numerous times, along the way). With the exception of the "diminished" Force the system uses, which seems to be pretty good, once one learns how to use it, and invests a bit in it, any time frame SHOULD work; it's just a question of the players and GM knowing enough details to describe it. Unless you were wanting to play Obi-Wan, Luke, or Galen Marek, even the Force is in line with what you SHOULD have, and still have other players enjoying it. You should probably be able to tell your friends that the setting they want would work just fine, and port in the elements from Saga, your mind, or what have you, using the assets the current FFG books already give. By this stage, few people who can thoroughly grasp the rules mechanics of this game (I'm still struggling) should still have powerful excuses to refuse to play it; perhaps they just don't want change, or know that they can munchkin Saga Edition, more easily.

Yeah, there is nothing Rebellion Era specific to any of the rules. Sure, FFG placed the setting right after Episode 4, but that's just to maintain a narrative cohesion between books and game lines. The developers, when asked about this, have unanimously said there is zero reason you couldn't play this in any setting you liked. They simply point out that the fluff text won't be as useful to you, for obvious reasons, but that the careers, specializations, and powers/talents are totally doable in any setting. Heck, some of the careers and specializations were pulled wholesale from the video games from the KOTOR setting (Shadow specifically comes to mind). So sure, set it whenever you like.

If that's the main resistance from the players, point that out. Heck, basically just ask the players what are their reservations about the system, and why they think it's not for them. Then see if it actually is even a real issue. A lot of problems for new players of this game, is a false representation of what the game is trying to do, and how it tries to do it. It's not for everyone sure, but I think it's a game for more people than they might think.

As a GM I much prefer this simply do to the dice system it makes things much easier to run on the fly with less book keeping. On top of this the system also allows for very cool varied moments, i.e. It's almost never just pass or fail do to the symbol system as opposed to a d20 vs DC system allowing for outcomes where you miss your opponent but shoot out the lights or force them into cover or where you hit but the kick back of your gun makes you slip backwards, run out of ammo or other such effects. It's nice because it brings more variance and tension whilst simultaneously encouraging the players to roleplay out what their dice results mean.

Similarly you might get hit with an attack that does almost no damage but still manages to hit a vital organ or knock you senseless adding again a bit more unpredictability and deadlieness to combat whilst also making it so going over your wounds doesn't neccessarily mean you're dying.

I GMed games of SW from WEG d6 system, d20, SAGA and FFG's, I like FFG's the best, the problem I had was GMing to a SAGA group, they where hell bent on just playing SAGA, although all they ever wanted to play was Clone Wars stuff and used that as an excuse not to play FFG because it didn't contain anything from the clone wars or other eras of star wars, except the empire era. So now it just gathers dust on my shelf as they have convinced everyone that was playing that the system sucks because of this fact. So if your group is a bunch of diehard SAGA players tread lightly on buying the FFG system, go with just a starter set first before you gather all the core books up like I did.

FFG version one need not be high level to succeed or survive. Plus it is way easier, faster, to play. You Don't need to be looking up rules all the time

Although all they ever wanted to play was Clone Wars stuff and used that as an excuse not to play FFG because it didn't contain anything from the clone wars or other eras of star wars, except the empire era.

"That? Oh, that's not an X-Wing. That's a Jedi Starfighter? And those are clone troopers, not storm troopers."

There, problem solved. Now tell your players to put on their big boy pants.

Keep in mind that, unlike Saga, you can beat the crap out the new system without breaking it. It's a gem for both sides of the screen. As a GM I can tell you I have done little session prep for a 1,000+ XP worth of sessions and it's been a joy.

One thing I often mention is that when you roll in a game like Saga, the mechanics focus on that player; they generally apply to only them, in their moment. In FFG's system, every roll has the mechanical potential to affect everyone. I've noticed that each roll in the new system draws the table together and everyone takes interest in the outcome, giving excited advice and loving how all those crazy symbols guide the flow of the narrative.

For what it's worth I was a naysayer until I purchased the Beginner Game. It took one session for everyone to get hooked. It only went up from there and we've been loving it ever since. So, try it. See whatever makes it tick. Let the dice guide not rule. The system facilitates an amazing Star Wars experience.

For what it's worth I was a naysayer until I purchased the Beginner Game. It took one session for everyone to get hooked. It only went up from there and we've been loving it ever since. So, try it. See whatever makes it tick. Let the dice guide not rule. The system facilitates an amazing Star Wars experience.

That seems to be the case with a lot of folks, in that they poo-poo'd the system until they actually sat down and actually played it.

For what it's worth I was a naysayer until I purchased the Beginner Game. It took one session for everyone to get hooked. It only went up from there and we've been loving it ever since. So, try it. See whatever makes it tick. Let the dice guide not rule. The system facilitates an amazing Star Wars experience.

That seems to be the case with a lot of folks, in that they poo-poo'd the system until they actually sat down and actually played it.

I've also seen preconceived negativity impact their enjoyment if they hit the slightest bump. Their choice, of course. My hesitation came from what I saw of WHFRP 3 coupled with an ignorant, "Oh, great. More fiddly". I was so wrong and very glad I gave it an honest try.

For what it's worth I was a naysayer until I purchased the Beginner Game. It took one session for everyone to get hooked. It only went up from there and we've been loving it ever since. So, try it. See whatever makes it tick. Let the dice guide not rule. The system facilitates an amazing Star Wars experience.

That seems to be the case with a lot of folks, in that they poo-poo'd the system until they actually sat down and actually played it.

I've also seen preconceived negativity impact their enjoyment if they hit the slightest bump. Their choice, of course. My hesitation came from what I saw of WHFRP 3 coupled with an ignorant, "Oh, great. More fiddly". I was so wrong and very glad I gave it an honest try.

Oddly enough, that's where a lot of my initial reluctance came from, was a bad experience with WFRP3e, which in retrospect had more to do with the guy doing the demo not really knowing what he was doing and likely making the game come across much worse than it probably was.

But after playing a single Skype game with some friends during the EotE Beta, I came to appreciate this system quite a bit in spite of being hesitant, especially after all the fun I'd had playing Saga Edition.

I definitely think WFRP dice pools where a bit big without the upgrade mechanic. It would have been awesome if it had trees for each career too, although they would be Force Power size not Specialisation size.

We had a new GM try WFRP with other stubborn players who never gave it a chance since it was such a departure from other RPGs with the combo of cards, tokens and dice but I'm going to be trying it soon as an experienced GM because I felt we missed out on something and for the most part have gotten rid of those players since and now the newer group is not only a bit more open but is used to this dice system which of course has a lot of similarities so should be less jarring than moving from D20 or white wolf.

Definitely a fun system, we found character growth hard with it so open ended for their choices, hence my hope that if FFG do a WFRP4ed they take a leaf out of the SW line just as SW grew out of WFRP3ed.

Our group definitely fell in love with the Narrative dice in WFRP, that was the gateway drug to SW!

That seems to be the case with a lot of folks, in that they poo-poo'd the system until they actually sat down and actually played it.

I was highly sceptical after buying the Beginners Set - no Jedi, funny-shaped dice, twi'leks who weren't hot dancer babes...

So I came here to discuss how it all worked, and I liked it so much I'm still here 2-3 years later!

That seems to be the case with a lot of folks, in that they poo-poo'd the system until they actually sat down and actually played it.

I was highly sceptical after buying the Beginners Set - no Jedi, funny-shaped dice, twi'leks who weren't hot dancer babes...

So I came here to discuss how it all worked, and I liked it so much I'm still here 2-3 years later!

Actually, the fact that the Twi'lek pre-gen was an armored bad-ass with a big rifle as opposed to being Ms. Fanservice wearing a smile and not much else was a selling point for some folks that were glad to see a female Twi'lek that could contribute to the party using a different set of guns

I figured the funny shaped dice and the lack of Jedi were so cool that I could just add the twi'lek fanservice in later!

Funnily enough, our sole twi'lek PC is a rather plain (by their standards) runaway who is trying to be taken seriously and bemoans the way everyone assumes a twi'lek female is a slave at worst or a stripper at best...

Talk about breaking stereotypes, I'm happy I can make my Hutt erotic dancer! Have you ever wanted to see an oiled alien gastropod twerk? 'Should be an auto-Triumph talent...

I really like the system - it's probably my favourite tabletop RPG system at the moment. For me:

Pros:

- Incremental character upgrades after each session.

- Loads of character choices and customisation over time.

- Very narrative system which encourages quick-thinking and improvisation.

- Combats are quick and exciting.

- Production quality of books is lovely.

- Great online community.

Cons:

- Vehicle combat is quite confusing.

- Quite rules heavy/crunchy.

- Custom dice can confuse new players.

- FFG products tend to be overly wordy and could be more concise.

- Published adventures need more maps and GM tips.

I really like the system - it's probably my favourite tabletop RPG system at the moment. For me:

Pros:

- Incremental character upgrades after each session.

- Loads of character choices and customisation over time.

- Very narrative system which encourages quick-thinking and improvisation.

- Combats are quick and exciting.

- Production quality of books is lovely.

- Great online community.

Cons:

- Vehicle combat is quite confusing.

- Quite rules heavy/crunchy.

- Custom dice can confuse new players.

- FFG products tend to be overly wordy and could be more concise.

- Published adventures need more maps and GM tips.

As the Copy editing is lousy and the binding is not top tier quality either, I would not call the production quality of the books lovely. The graphic designers and artist did a lovely job, game designers did a great job too. Put the production quality itself? Lousy!

The vehicle combat is by the way quite straight forward, once you rewrote and summarize stuff from 3 different chapters and gathered bits and peaces from all over multiple books.

Still one of the best RPGs, might be actually even the best american one. But it hard to see that the system works so well, when the system is hiding in tables all over the several books and without dedicated chapters for each aspect of the game.

As the Copy editing is lousy and the binding is not top tier quality either, I would not call the production quality of the books lovely. The graphic designers and artist did a lovely job, game designers did a great job too. Put the production quality itself? Lousy!

I meant the layout of the pages and artwork. Although I haven't had any problems with the bindings either.

I agree with all that.

For a system that feels very 'rules lite', it has enough tables and charts spread all over the place to make even Gary Gygax ecstatic.

For ship/vehicle combat, I tend to handwave it a lot and go with 'rule of cool', and try to replicate the feel of what we see in the movies. The rules are all over the place where this is concerned.

The whole game is also VERY easy to min/max and power-game... (mostly because of easy multi-classing and set damage and defences) - although it's based on the assumption that you won't be doing that and will actually want to play a Star Wars game with all the attendant themes and tropes rather than an MMO.

I figured the funny shaped dice and the lack of Jedi were so cool that I could just add the twi'lek fanservice in later!

Funnily enough, our sole twi'lek PC is a rather plain (by their standards) runaway who is trying to be taken seriously and bemoans the way everyone assumes a twi'lek female is a slave at worst or a stripper at best...

Funny you mention that about Twi'lek's, because one of my players, habitually plays female characters in video games. Using the logic of "Hey, if I have to stare at a butt for hundreds of hours, it might as well be a butt I want to stare at." he always plays a female if given the choice. He did the same as his first FFG character. I think she was an ex-slave? I can't recall, because at character generation, she was a female/twilek Han Solo for all intents and purposes. oh wait, yeah she was a former slave, I remember that now being in her background. Though she was a pilot slave, not a sex slave.

But yeah, the Star Wars stereotypes are funny, but sad. It's why I'm actually glad there are Gungun stats out now. So I can make my Dirty Harry/Taxi Cab inspired Gungun Assassin/Bounty Hunter. "Yousa talkin to meesa?!" "Doosa youz feel mooey mooey lucky punk?!"

I think the core challenge that FFG tried to allow for in vehicle combat is the 3rd dimension. In a tactical sense there is no simple way of running 3D encounters, they just don't fit on a table or in our minds easily. But they tried to provide a system that allows for moving more naturally, and it's hard to visualise. In a future world where Augmented Reality is an everyday thing then we could have that simulated over the table. For now though it takes brain power and a good understanding of the Devs intended way of running those encounters.

None of the RPGs got Starships correct. FFG isn't bad but still a bit kludgy, D6 was probably the best of the bunch (and even that is damming with faint praise) and WotC was goddamned unplayable.

So weird that a franchise that centers so much around vehicle combat stumbles so bad when implementing vehicle combat.