I really love this game. The models, community, and mechanics of the game. But this has definitely taken away some of my steam. I dont blame the players or TO in the matter, because they were put in a situation where they were told that it's OK, without much guideline or example of how to ditinguish when it is not OK.

This has pitted 2 world champions against each other and demoralized most of the active players.

Something is wrong that has not been acknowledged. Cmon FFG. Give me something to help make sense of all of this.

Maybe we should wait for an official statement from FFG on their website before folks get bent out of shape. I'm not denying the statement SentryBox got is from FFG. It sounded like they did their due diligence to get the statement.

SentryBox folks did state if folks were unhappy about the ruling they could contact FFG in regards to it. They also mentioned folks should bring their disagreement in an intelligent manner rather than just "Nerd Raging" on them. If folks see the FFG statement in the coming days then they can comment on it in better manner to the company for a potential change.

Although I don't like going overboard, I think it is necessary to have many loud complaints, so that an official statement can be a proper response to the way people really feel. It's necessary for them to know that things aren't going to just 'move on' without having lost something.

I like the contingent of "Play better, bro" voices here as much as I'm enjoying the almost predictable percentage of Internet contraians on this subject.

Simply put, 8 players taking intentional draws is crappy. 2 world champions taking a draw makes it worse.

But hey, all the greats end up some kind of unsportsmanlike cheaters. Neil Armstrong, the New England Patroits, any FIFA team. Why not X Wing players? OK, I'm being hyperbolic. Did these guys do anything as overt as cheating? No. Are they gutless jerks? Yes.

Lie to yourself all you want, that's the bottom line. People here aren't upset because they aren't as good at the game as those guys. People are upset because the players who are supposed to be some of the best just showed what was most important to them, and it wasn't playing the game.

I swear this forum needs a dislike button...

The complete top8 taking draws last round is just a rare situation, have played tons of mtg tournaments with last round IDs always on the table and have never experienced a full top IDing because the situation is abnormal. Usually what happens is that 2 or 3 tables at max get the ID and the other tables have to play to get the spots still undecided.

I dont think its a bad rule, i dont think the problem is IDing. For all the people claiming that ID kills competitive play just ask for a different format rather for the removal of something that happens that is beneficial for both parties y a competitive enviroment.

I also like PGS point of view, as i also play to win and try to do my best to WAAC. The difference is the assumption that WAAC goes against the rules and the politeness of a player.

If the best players of a tournmanet get the situation to ID to ensure the top cut i prefer to have them on the top rather than the one submarining. Even if PHeaver lost the second round and prefers other players to play instead of drawing to have the opportunity to reach the cut.

I just like to play good lists, i copy them if i think they are good, i test them and try to get maximum value every time. I am not a ***** and i prefer other competitive players rather than those that cry because you brought a broken list.

The amount of hate I see in this forum against people who are playing by the rules is insane. i know this is Internet, and it brings out the pigs in men, but still. Players who play great for whole tournament should play a completely unnecessary match just to give a chance to someone who was not that good of a player to catch up? i can't see the logic in that. I liked whole "fly casual" idea, but after this they seem as a bunch of hypocrites.

They're not playing great for the whole tournament if they skip an entire round.

The amount of hate I see in this forum against people who are playing by the rules is insane. i know this is Internet, and it brings out the pigs in men, but still. Players who play great for whole tournament should play a completely unnecessary match just to give a chance to someone who was not that good of a player to catch up? i can't see the logic in that. I liked whole "fly casual" idea, but after this they seem as a bunch of hypocrites.

Not losing a tournament match does not automatically mean you played better than someone who lost a game. It could just as likely mean you got an easy-mode run against outclassed opponents, while the other guy ran into the visiting National champion (or whatever).

If this response is real, calling it somewhat tone-deaf is an understatement akin to calling the Death Star a moderately imprudent investment. It's like calling Hayden Christensen a slightly unconvincing performer. It's like... it's like saying the Yuuzhan Vong pose a small challenge to the reader's suspension of disbelief.

If this is real, I'm going to really lose my temper. So for the moment, I'm going to assume it's some sort of elaborate prank in very poor taste, rather than an actual response from OP.

All I can say is that I first received the Message containing the statement 10 minutes before the show went live, I then ran around trying to get a second independent source before I was wiling to even mention it.

I got the second with 7 minutes to show time and made the decision to report on it.

I have posted before and will post again, I stand behind what I say and try to be as transparent as possible. It was not a stunt for attention, I produce a show for The Sentry Box and want to make it a show that people can respect and trust.

My reputation and the reputation of DiceHate Productions Inc are something I take seriously so rest assured I trust in this statement and will be checking the OP page to see if the mentioned article materialises.

Kris

Host and Producer for The Sentry Box's Monday Night Gaming Twitch Stream and Owner of DiceHate Productions Ltd

To be clear, I don't actually think you made it up. I just think it's an unbelievably terrible response.

The amount of hate I see in this forum against people who are playing by the rules is insane. i know this is Internet, and it brings out the pigs in men, but still. Players who play great for whole tournament should play a completely unnecessary match just to give a chance to someone who was not that good of a player to catch up? i can't see the logic in that. I liked whole "fly casual" idea, but after this they seem as a bunch of hypocrites.

"Players who play great for a whole tournament" should indeed be rewarded. Players who ID are, by definition, not playing through the whole tournament.

The amount of hate I see in this forum against people who are playing by the rules is insane. i know this is Internet, and it brings out the pigs in men, but still. Players who play great for whole tournament should play a completely unnecessary match just to give a chance to someone who was not that good of a player to catch up? i can't see the logic in that. I liked whole "fly casual" idea, but after this they seem as a bunch of hypocrites.

Sigh. Not what I was hoping to see.

"We made a bad decision, and this is why it is correct".

Basically doubling down and compounding the error. If this is truly their stance, I think things will only get worse.

Intentional draws are a thing, and part of why they are a thing is because you can literally end up playing games that have no meaning, or where 'not losing' is more important than actually winning, which can be tedious for all involved.

What you need to do is adjust the tournament structure to take this into account. You shouldn't end up with a situation where two people taking a draw is better than actually playing the game.

You also shouldn't end up in a situation where winning or losing will make a huge difference to the results... and taking a draw will affect that fact. If the people taking draws are guaranteed a spot no matter what other players did, hey, that's the game, y'know? Might as well grab a break.

Why does it make sense that winning or losing a round should not have a huge difference in the end result? It seems like winning or losing affecting the results is the whole point of a competition. I do understand that playing a stalling match may be tedious and yes I agree that winning should be the goal of each round of play and drawing or not losing should not be superior choices to playing to win.

Ultimately this doesn't affect me as I will never have the time to compete at this level nor likely the skill, but I find the implementation very dissatisfying. It makes me much less interested in bothering to even follow competitive play.

Instead of throwing hate/venting frustration at the symptom (the Roanoke Regional) how about banding together to get FFG to pull their collective heads out of the sand and make an official assessment + "ruling".

For better or worse?

That would at least lead to something, e.g. comp. players either dropping from, or staying in, the game.

Aaaaanyway, I am off to play some X-Wing.

I really wish people would realize how the VA situation happened, and how it is unlikely to happen again. Not saying that it is a good thing to have in this game, but lets not assume that this will always happen at Regionals.

I'm looking forward to the explanation of why intentional draws are even allowed. I just can't work out what problem they solve.

FFG should have stayed out of it. This was a big mistake for them. I can't speak for anyone else and I am not organizing a boycott but I will not participate in events run by companies that encourage elitism, no matter how rare the odds are that such elitism can occur.

I'll keep playing with local folks with the stuff I have but I will not support the game by buying new product, either. I quit playing Magic over this sort of nonsensical attitude that inspires the worst in people at a tournament, and I have no qualms about doing that here. either.

For the record, I collect a lot of different FFG games - everything from GoT 2.0 to X-Wing to Armada. Between this and the anti-customer attitude WizKids has adopted, I should have plenty of money to really develop a new hobby. So, thanks FFG - you just made my wife very happy!

Not the response I expected, and such a weird delivery. why not just a post on the main ffg page? this whole situation has the whiff of the surreal about it.

This is a lame cop-out. Clearly from one player's account, this is NOT how things went down with the Roanoke 8. They conspired to commit a legal alliance. Should action be taken against them? No. TO's make mistakes all the time. However, FFG drawing a line between competitive and casual is a mistake. Swiss rounding was supposed to allow a large number of players to determine the best player. You can't all play eachother, but results of swiss rounding don't really hold true unless you complete all of the rounds. That way players who had unfortunate match ups early on, still have a chance to claim best player. For all those on FB groups and forums like this, this game is NOT Magic, Warhammer, or Netrunner. Stop comparing it to it, and stop trying to make it that. It's ******* STAR WARS and is a lot more than flipping cards and rolling dice.

I do wish people would give FFG just a little bit more time to evaluate the situation. No, they are not going to make a knee jerk change to the tournament rules 3 days after this happened.

Loving the hurt here...

If you do not like IDs you need to talk about the Swiss system. I am no fan of IDs but have learned to live with them after 20 or so years of MtG.

Draws in Magic are very unlikly as well and for the most part are because of time. So this game is compareable to Magic in that manner.

I would prefer a double elimination system over the Swiss system but that would not grant every player the same rounds. But this system would focus only on winning or losing. No more draws.

All those guys theatening FFG makes my day, its like hopeless drug addict threatening his drug dealer he will quit if dealer doesn't his next dose for free

All those guys theatening FFG makes my day, its like hopeless drug addict threatening his drug dealer he will quit if dealer doesn't his next dose for free

Someone said the same thing to me the day I quit buying and playing Magic. I'm 6 years Magic free.

You just moved to next drug fellow addict

A token with this image will be provided in all fututre FFG products for players that want to take an Intentional Draw.