This was just announced on the Sentrybox show as official from FFG

Thought I would put this in a new thread/discussion as its stuck on page 41/42 on the main "discussion" and im sure would get lost very quickly

We are aware of the occurrence at a Regional Championship where four individual matches elected to agree to an intentional draw. While we are still collecting information, it initially appears that each match followed the procedure for intentional draws as detailed in the Tournament Regulations, calling for a leader prior to any discussion on the topic so that they could oversee each match's agreement.

We understand that intentional draws are a foreign or disliked concept for some players and fans of Organized Play, but it is our belief that they are a necessary inclusion to promote a fair play experience for all tournament players. As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series, and offer more incredible prizes like travel to exclusive events, we must commit to embracing the differences between purely recreational play and tournament play.

We appreciate your feedback on this policy. We are taking steps to help increase the understanding and acceptance of the necessity of intentional draws being allowed in tournaments. Look for an article on this subject on our Organized Play page (www.fantasyflightgames.com/op) in the very near future, which will help valued community members like yourself explain and implement the change

Edit - Sentrybox not Sentrybot lol

For those saying this only effects highly competitive play read this article it shows that even a local store tournament could be ruined for new players by this. http://www.tabletopgeneral.com/2016/04/

Sigh. Not what I was hoping to see.

"We made a bad decision, and this is why it is correct".

Basically doubling down and compounding the error. If this is truly their stance, I think things will only get worse.

Apparently being able to rig the final 8 positions is promoting the fair play experience. Nice to know.

Apparently being able to rig the final 8 positions is promoting the fair play experience. Nice to know.

Yeah, what the ****. LOL.

Sigh. Not what I was hoping to see.

"We made a bad decision, and this is why it is correct".

Basically doubling down and compounding the error. If this is truly their stance, I think things will only get worse.

Intentional draws are a thing, and part of why they are a thing is because you can literally end up playing games that have no meaning, or where 'not losing' is more important than actually winning, which can be tedious for all involved.

What you need to do is adjust the tournament structure to take this into account. You shouldn't end up with a situation where two people taking a draw is better than actually playing the game.

You also shouldn't end up in a situation where winning or losing will make a huge difference to the results... and taking a draw will affect that fact. If the people taking draws are guaranteed a spot no matter what other players did, hey, that's the game, y'know? Might as well grab a break.

We just need them to tweak the ranking system so that you can't take a draw and in doing so lock others out, and then accept it's a thing from hereon in.

Trying to save face, rather than issue a mea culpa. I look forward to their "justification" because in a 40+ thread there hasn't yet been one that is convincing about why it is "necessary".

Edit: this is the context of how the rule is currently written.

If they were to change it to a double loss, then I am all for it, but there is no clear indication that they are actually listening, despite saying so. The last sentence heavily implies that we aren't smart enough to understand, thanks for the condescending response FFG.

Yeah, I'm pretty certain this is the LCG contingent (mainly, Netrunner) speaking.

Y'know, I always assumed that I would walk away from the game because Frank and Alex would slip up and completely break the game with a new release. I never thought it would be because they decided to go against their own principles on competitive play.

Words really cannot describe how furious I am here. I have defended, or at least been understanding of FFG during the other fiascoes they've let happen (eg. SLAM, faction dials, damage decks) but this is unforgivable, to be honest. It goes against everything they have tried to claim about how they view Organised Play, which was a big part of why I took part in it.

Ridiculous. Simply ridiculous.

Couldn't agree more. Sigh. This and the screw ups I consider both last years Worlds and US Nationals to be, and I'm over it. I didn't play in a lot of tourneys, but the tournament scene has always been what kept me on the hook. Now that they've pressed the implode button and the "yes I meant to press the implode button" button, I think I'm fading fast.

I presume this goes along the lines of "intentionally not engaging each other is difficult to police for TOs especially at big tournaments, so to avoid people getting bend out of shape about that we're just going to make it legal."

F*&CK You FFG.

Y'know, I always assumed that I would walk away from the game because Frank and Alex would slip up and completely break the game with a new release. I never thought it would be because they decided to go against their own principles on competitive play.

To be very clear, Organized Play was the department to make the ID rule, not the design team. From what Alex Davy said in a recent interview with some hack podcast, Alex and Frank have no real input into their decisions.

I presume this goes along the lines of "intentionally not engaging each other is difficult to police for TOs especially at big tournaments, so to avoid people getting bend out of shape about that we're just going to make it legal."

Or, you know, just kill off draws so there is no reason to ever do that. As suggested by like 400 people in the first 5 minutes after seeing this.

Y'know, I always assumed that I would walk away from the game because Frank and Alex would slip up and completely break the game with a new release. I never thought it would be because they decided to go against their own principles on competitive play.

To be very clear, Organized Play was the department to make the ID rule, not the design team. From what Alex Davy said in a recent interview with some hack podcast, Alex and Frank have no real input into their decisions.

Oh, I realise that. I don't blame Alex or Frank in any way whatsoever for this disaster. I worded that paragraph poorly.

You do realize even in small tournaments with three rounds at the end of round 2 the top two could just take a ID and get 1st and second place on lock if the other players all have one loss. Every single tournament from the small kit tournaments to the large regionals and nationals are effected.

Y'know, I always assumed that I would walk away from the game because Frank and Alex would slip up and completely break the game with a new release. I never thought it would be because they decided to go against their own principles on competitive play.

To be very clear, Organized Play was the department to make the ID rule, not the design team. From what Alex Davy said in a recent interview with some hack podcast, Alex and Frank have no real input into their decisions.

Yeah, this seems to be entirely on Steve Horvath. Who seems to be listening a bit too much to the stimhack crowd.

Yeah, I'm...not happy about this.

Been having some doubts about getting into tournaments again this year anyways, and this (and the split it's caused in the community, especially the personal ugliness from some folks) isn't helping.

If this is true, then I'm going to use this at every opportunity to bank my wins with my opponent and avoid any instance whereby either of us losing is not a desireable outcome.

Good job, OP.

Institute a World Cup style tournament structure and this is what you get; playing for ties. Would rather see double elimination with a winner's bracket and loser's bracket (e.g. NCAA Softball).

I think I will double down on my commitment to buy less of FFG's products. Also no matter the rules I will follow the Golden Rule:If you act like a giant ****** I will treat you like a giant ******.

Maybe we should wait for an official statement from FFG on their website before folks get bent out of shape. I'm not denying the statement SentryBox got is from FFG. It sounded like they did their due diligence to get the statement.

SentryBox folks did state if folks were unhappy about the ruling they could contact FFG in regards to it. They also mentioned folks should bring their disagreement in an intelligent manner rather than just "Nerd Raging" on them. If folks see the FFG statement in the coming days then they can comment on it in better manner to the company for a potential change.

This statement adds insult to injury!

What gaming morals are you trying to teach to young participants FFG?

What happened to the good all moral where "competing is more important than winning"!

If people want to ID their game then let them show their true colors, spend 75 minutes flying around in circles and spend some energy while doing that.

Do not reward them by letting them rest FFS!!!!

This is nice. Because we ALL know how vital draws are to this game.