I've got a player that really wants to dig into cybernetics long term. I'm inclined to work with them on things, assuming nothing gets crazy OP. They recently came to me with an idea and I wanted to get some 3rd party opinions.

Per the rules, installing a cybernetic requires medical equipment, 6 hours of time and a medicine check. However when making a cybernetic part, you can spend advantage to make it "tailored" for a particular being. Doing so removes the need for a check to install it. If one is reading the rules strictly, this would still mean you need medical equipment and 6 hours of time to install it (just no check).

However the player has asked me if it would be possible to make tailored hands that each serve a different function, and can be swapped out when needed a la Captain Hook. Say a hand for Mechanics checks filled with tools, a hand with a data spike and slicing gear for Computers checks, a hand with a built in blade/knucklers/energy buckler for combat or a hand with skin sensors, vibrators and other such things for uh... "Charm" checks with the ladies. You get the idea. I assume the goal is to have a shelf of hands for every occasion.

My question is simple, if a player was willing to replace their arm and build tailored hands for different occasions, would you enforce a 6 hour install/un-install time limit? Would you let them do it at all? What kind of time-frame would be acceptable if so? An action? A few minutes?

I like the idea and am inclined to say it takes two Action to interact with both hands. However I'd love some input if anyone has any.

An arm with a socket the different functions wouldn't be too out there, as long as each hand is clearly defined as to what it does. I'd probably assign an action to swap out, and every arm (if carried) has an encumbrance (2-3), so the player can't carry a bag of arms and switch out everywhere on the fly, but has to pick and choose which options he wants to carry into an encounter.

My question is simple, if a player was willing to replace their arm and build tailored hands for different occasions, would you enforce a 6 hour install/un-install time limit? Would you let them do it at all? What kind of time-frame would be acceptable if so? An action? A few minutes?

I would allow it, but I would enforce the installation times, albeit with the understanding that they would not need medical equipment. (Fluff would be something like: "Each time you attach a new part, it needs time to align with the user's bio-synthetic matrix algorithms. This means software downloads and installations, subroutine updates, and kinetic testing.")

Basically: you can slap the arm on, but it will take some time for it to be usable. There has to be SOME penalty for turning someone into a living Swiss Army Knife with no potential restrictions on hardware.

While I really like the idea, it sounds like a ***** to gm and keep track of. So no.

Sounds like a clever description for someone with the Utility Belt talent to me.

While I really like the idea, it sounds like a ***** to gm and keep track of. So no.

Ha! Fair enough. I'm willing to work with it though, it seems like a fun enough concept.

My question is simple, if a player was willing to replace their arm and build tailored hands for different occasions, would you enforce a 6 hour install/un-install time limit? Would you let them do it at all? What kind of time-frame would be acceptable if so? An action? A few minutes?

I would allow it, but I would enforce the installation times, albeit with the understanding that they would not need medical equipment. (Fluff would be something like: "Each time you attach a new part, it needs time to align with the user's bio-synthetic matrix algorithms. This means software downloads and installations, subroutine updates, and kinetic testing.")

Basically: you can slap the arm on, but it will take some time for it to be usable. There has to be SOME penalty for turning someone into a living Swiss Army Knife with no potential restrictions on hardware.

Hmm, I can dig that. Perhaps with extra successes or (advantages?) on a voluntary Medicine check going towards reducing that 6 hours down a bit?

Hmm, I can dig that. Perhaps with extra successes or (advantages?) on a voluntary Medicine check going towards reducing that 6 hours down a bit?

That would be reasonable to me -- if (and *only* if) this check was performed by someone else, who would be facilitating the transition. (Otherwise, you just have someone operating on themselves. I'd be OK if they could slap the part on without assistance, but to speed the transition process up, they'll need help.)

Hmm, I can dig that. Perhaps with extra successes or (advantages?) on a voluntary Medicine check going towards reducing that 6 hours down a bit?

That would be reasonable to me -- if (and *only* if) this check was performed by someone else, who would be facilitating the transition. (Otherwise, you just have someone operating on themselves. I'd be OK if they could slap the part on without assistance, but to speed the transition process up, they'll need help.)

Fair enough! Thanks for the input!

I'm not sure I'd enforce a long install time if we're talking about a modular hand or forearm on a whole cybernetic arm.

Sounds like a clever description for someone with the Utility Belt talent to me.

This is kind of how it struck me. Of course, it sounds like he's a technician, so maybe you could make the Utility Belt talent a pre-requisite before allowing him this item. I'd also allow him to use a Destiny Point to say during an encounter "Earlier I swapped my arm out to X model", so long as he hasn't used a different model in the current encounter.

From my perspective, the difference between carrying around a case of hands for different tasks and carrying around a bag full of tools comes down to flavor only. I mean, there's very little functional difference between switching from the Mechanic hand to the Slicer hand on the one hand, and putting away your toolkit to pull out your slicer gear on the other. If the player thinks it's cooler to have a bunch of purpose-built hands than to carrying around a duffel bag of gear, then I don't see a reason to get in his way. Especially if he's giving up a point towards his cybernetic cap for the privilege.

From my perspective, the difference between carrying around a case of hands for different tasks and carrying around a bag full of tools comes down to flavor only. I mean, there's very little functional difference between switching from the Mechanic hand to the Slicer hand on the one hand, and putting away your toolkit to pull out your slicer gear on the other. If the player thinks it's cooler to have a bunch of purpose-built hands than to carrying around a duffel bag of gear, then I don't see a reason to get in his way. Especially if he's giving up a point towards his cybernetic cap for the privilege.

I hadn't considered that; you make a very strong point! For much less time and money, my player could easily craft encumbrance 0 "Tools" and just carry those around with them. Given that they are willing to give up more time, money AND a cybernetic's slot for the sake of flavor, there probably shouldn't be too many (if any) real negatives to allowing them to do so. I'd rather say yes to a potentially OP idea (and fix it later) than say no and have them just go and accomplish the same thing in a far more boring way...

call it a cybernetic arm with 'attachments' that equal different fore-arm and hand combinations.

for a technician, swapping out attachments is relatively quick and easy... and really only nets the player 'the right tools for the job' benefit - maybe a blue die on a select few skills, at most. I'd also enforce a few setbacks for any/all other skill checks that might be effected by the use said hand...

Sounds like an awesome place to dump money, cybernetic points, and story hooks.

So I decided to do some comparisons based of Kaigen's point about it being essentially the same as using and swapping out tool kits. Here is a comparison between a Simple Tool and a Prosthetic Appendage build for the same task. In this case a Lightweight (encumbrance 0) Simple Tool with an Inbuilt fusion cutter VS a Tailored Appendages with an Inbuilt fusion cutter and Integrated Tool. This is based off my own requirement that the Prosthetic Appendage be Tailored, and the assumption that an unattached hand has an encumbrance of 2.

Pros to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• It isn't "on your person" and thus can't be targeted by Sunder or Disarmed.
• Looks cooler!

Cons to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• Cost $950 additional credits to craft. (Only $450 additional credits for a Cyberneticist)
• Takes 10 Additional hours to craft. (12 hrs VS 2 hrs)
• Is harder to craft. (Hard [3P] VS Easy [1P])
• Cost 1 more Advantage to craft. (2 for Integrated Tool, 3 for Tailored, 4 for Inbuilt weapon VS 4 for Lightweight, 4 for Inbuilt Weapon)
• Takes up a cybernetic slot on the character.
• Has encumbrance 2 when not in use.
• Can potentially be rendered non-functional with Ion weapons.
• Cannot gain the Safety Features (+1 Advantage) or Supreme Craftsmanship (upgrade check once) abilities.

Given the HUGE number of drawbacks, I'm inclined to let my player do this. Thanks for the input everyone! If you have any more feedback just let me know!

Seems like you're thinking about it in a balanced way. Will be interested to hear back about your results in play.

Seems like you're thinking about it in a balanced way. Will be interested to hear back about your results in play.

Once the player/character in question actually has enough time to build/try this all out, I'll be sure to let you guys know!

Do I decided to do some comparisons based of Kaigen's point about it being essentially the same as using and swapping out tool kits. Here is a comparison between a Simple Tool and a Prosthetic Appendage build for the same task. In this case a Lightweight (encumbrance 0) Simple Tool with an Inbuilt fusion cutter VS a Tailored Appendages with an Inbuilt fusion cutter and Integrated Tool. This is based off my own requirement that the Prosthetic Appendage be Tailored, and the assumption that an unattached hand has an encumbrance of 2.

Pros to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• It isn't "on your person" and thus can't be targeted by Sunder or Disarmed.
• Looks cooler!

Cons to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• Cost $950 additional credits to craft. (Only $450 additional credits for a Cyberneticist)
• Takes 10 Additional hours to craft. (12 hrs VS 2 hrs)
• Is harder to craft. (Hard [3P] VS Easy [1P])
• Cost 1 more Advantage to craft. (2 for Integrated Tool, 3 for Tailored, 4 for Inbuilt weapon VS 4 for Lightweight, 4 for Inbuilt Weapon)
• Takes up a cybernetic slot on the character.
• Has encumbrance 2 when not in use.
• Can potentially be rendered non-functional with Ion weapons.
• Cannot gain the Safety Features (+1 Advantage) or Supreme Craftsmanship (upgrade check once) abilities.

Given the HUGE number of drawbacks, I'm inclined to let my player do this. Thanks for the input everyone! If you have any more feedback just let me know!

Given all of this:

Cons to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• Cost $950 additional credits to craft. (Only $450 additional credits for a Cyberneticist)
• Takes 10 Additional hours to craft. (12 hrs VS 2 hrs)
• Is harder to craft. (Hard [3P] VS Easy [1P])
• Cost 1 more Advantage to craft. (2 for Integrated Tool, 3 for Tailored, 4 for Inbuilt weapon VS 4 for Lightweight, 4 for Inbuilt Weapon)
• Takes up a cybernetic slot on the character.
• Has encumbrance 2 when not in use.
• Can potentially be rendered non-functional with Ion weapons.

I don't know that I'd hit them with this:

Cannot gain the Safety Features (+1 Advantage) or Supreme Craftsmanship (upgrade check once) abilities.

I like to encourage the cool factor as much as possible in any players - if they're willing to invest seriously in something, let them have it, and in spades.

Just remind them that the knife cuts both ways...

Do I decided to do some comparisons based of Kaigen's point about it being essentially the same as using and swapping out tool kits. Here is a comparison between a Simple Tool and a Prosthetic Appendage build for the same task. In this case a Lightweight (encumbrance 0) Simple Tool with an Inbuilt fusion cutter VS a Tailored Appendages with an Inbuilt fusion cutter and Integrated Tool. This is based off my own requirement that the Prosthetic Appendage be Tailored, and the assumption that an unattached hand has an encumbrance of 2.

Pros to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• It isn't "on your person" and thus can't be targeted by Sunder or Disarmed.
• Looks cooler!

Cons to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• Cost $950 additional credits to craft. (Only $450 additional credits for a Cyberneticist)
• Takes 10 Additional hours to craft. (12 hrs VS 2 hrs)
• Is harder to craft. (Hard [3P] VS Easy [1P])
• Cost 1 more Advantage to craft. (2 for Integrated Tool, 3 for Tailored, 4 for Inbuilt weapon VS 4 for Lightweight, 4 for Inbuilt Weapon)
• Takes up a cybernetic slot on the character.
• Has encumbrance 2 when not in use.
• Can potentially be rendered non-functional with Ion weapons.
• Cannot gain the Safety Features (+1 Advantage) or Supreme Craftsmanship (upgrade check once) abilities.

Given the HUGE number of drawbacks, I'm inclined to let my player do this. Thanks for the input everyone! If you have any more feedback just let me know!

Given all of this:

Cons to using an Appendage VS Simple Tool:

• Cost $950 additional credits to craft. (Only $450 additional credits for a Cyberneticist)
• Takes 10 Additional hours to craft. (12 hrs VS 2 hrs)
• Is harder to craft. (Hard [3P] VS Easy [1P])
• Cost 1 more Advantage to craft. (2 for Integrated Tool, 3 for Tailored, 4 for Inbuilt weapon VS 4 for Lightweight, 4 for Inbuilt Weapon)
• Takes up a cybernetic slot on the character.
• Has encumbrance 2 when not in use.
• Can potentially be rendered non-functional with Ion weapons.

I don't know that I'd hit them with this:

Cannot gain the Safety Features (+1 Advantage) or Supreme Craftsmanship (upgrade check once) abilities.

I like to encourage the cool factor as much as possible in any players - if they're willing to invest seriously in something, let them have it, and in spades.

Just remind them that the knife cuts both ways...

Hmm... I suppose there's no reason they couldn't pick those up as well! The tables are just "suggestions" after all. That said, hot dang would they need one hell of a check! And spending two Triumphs for Supreme Craftsmanship instead of Ion immunity is certainly a double edged sword!

That said, hot dang would they need one hell of a check!

Just want to add that it will add flavor if the hands are crafted differently well.

"Here let me help you" - "Get that monster of a hand away from me. Use your screwdriver hand." - "You have a broken arm mate" - "I don't care, the last time you used that friggin syringe hand my arm was itching for a week. When are you going to repair that devilous torture paw?"

Also I had to think more of Gobber from how to train your dragon than hook

If it only was for flavour, I wouldn't mind. But I strongly suspect the underlying idea is having a box of extra ranks for all conceivable skills: And that is fishy to me!

In that case I'd say: Well, you can swap tools as you like, but the skill improvement is coming from a machine-neural interface, that is hardwired; There can only be one!

Keep in mind: A skill rank only takes one success for an implant, but two triumphs (for an upgrade) for a tool.

If it only was for flavour, I wouldn't mind. But I strongly suspect the underlying idea is having a box of extra ranks for all conceivable skills: And that is fishy to me!

In that case I'd say: Well, you can swap tools as you like, but the skill improvement is coming from a machine-neural interface, that is hardwired; There can only be one!

Keep in mind: A skill rank only takes one success for an implant, but two triumphs (for an upgrade) for a tool.

The warning is appreciated though. :-)