Math is hard. To be fair, I was having difficulty understanding how this happened mathematically when I first heard Sat night/Sun morning.

People have just made a habit of making up things in regards to this situation to fit thier narrative. There has been some serious lapses in fact checking by a number of posters so quick to try post thier .02 that they don't care if what they are saying is even remotely true.

It's a bit odd to accuse someone of a moral failing while fabricating the circumstances of the situation at hand.

Math is hard. To be fair, I was having difficulty understanding how this happened mathematically when I first heard Sat night/Sun morning.

It must have been a big WTF moment at the tournament itself. Most players are not really tuned-in to how the tournament math works, and get blindsided by weird results. I heard about the Roanoke tournament results while I was at another X-Wing tournament, and we were scrambling around trying to figure out what the hell happened. I'm not surprised that people are so angry about all this, because it runs waaay counter to their expectations of what will happen at an X-Wing tournament.

This reminds me of soccer tournaments, where the structure of the tournament can lead to weird results where it's better to draw than to play. Is it bad sportsmanship to be a munchkin and exploit the flaws in the tournament structure? I lean in the direction of "don't hate the player, hate the game"

I don't think the players did anything wrong, but the results are clearly undesirable, and necessitate a rule change.

The insane thing is you just needed one more or one less 4-1 player to prevent it. I guess it is providence that this happened early, rather than getting used to the rule and it happening as it becomes entrenched. I mean, there is no way FFG is going to let this stand as a possibility.

Sorry, my english is not perfect.

What means "Collusion"?

Secretly working together when you should be competing against each other.

Hum, not really, collusion is more of an agreement that that screws someone else over. It's usually secret (and illegal) for obvious reasons, but it doesn't have to be.

Sorry, my english is not perfect.

What means "Collusion"?

trabajando juntos cuando debería estar compitiendo uno contra el otro

existe un gran debate sobre si existe un pobre espíritu deportivo en un torneo . Hay mucha gente que son sensibles a los issue.many opiniones diferentes acerca de lo sucedido

I'd love to make a Hitler rant vid about this whole thing, but after the misinterpretation and general crapstorm derailment that followed the last one I saw, I think I'd better not.....

I'd love to make a Hitler rant vid about this whole thing, but after the misinterpretation and general crapstorm derailment that followed the last one I saw, I think I'd better not.....

No, no, this is perfect for a hitler rant video. The bigger the shitstorm, the better

Funny thing is, if this had happened in a magic tournament (and probably the same for quite a lot of other games) nobody would think anything much of it.

If the first 8 players were in a position to lock out the top 8 (and with access to the standings it's not hard to figure out) it's only logical for them to ID and lock up the top 8.

Maybe they want to call it some kind of statement or protest or whatever, but really it's just smart play. Why play the last round and risk dropping out of the top 8 on MOV when a draw assures that you will make top 8?

I've seen my fair share of magic tournaments have the top 8 be locked up like that. I've been on both sides of it at various times.

Only in this game have I seen such staunch opposition to the ID.

Only in this game have I seen such staunch opposition to the ID.

I would imagine there was a some discussion about it the first time it happened at a big MtG tournament. That's at least part of the reason here, because it's brand new.

But you bring up an interesting question. What the top 8 did is by no means cheating or illegal. That doesn't mean it was the right thing to do, but it also doesn't mean it's wrong.

Is using the rules to your advantage wrong? Clearly a lot of people don't like it, but do we get to decide what the rules are or do we simply play by them?

Rules this. Legal that. What ever happened to the spirit of the game? gone the same way as common sense by the looks of things. Why is tournement X-wing becoming so 'hardcore' when your generally playing for plastic tokens with about the same value as your tourney entry fee?

Looks like I picked a good week to have off the boards. I love the way we all bang on about the X-wing community being the best out there in the minatures scene, how everyone is so relaxed and friendly and 'fly casual' yet as soon as there's a loophole to exploit the community turns into a bunch of tax-dodging mega corporations.. Well, technically it's legal to deposit all my profits in this off shore scheme so I don't pay any tax. Win for the company, loss for the people who benefit from the tax.

So I'm sorry, but where as I can see why people are defending those involved I think the moral integrity is shocking and if those people can't see the hurt this has caused the community in what, 4 days, Just so they were guaranteed there special plastic dice then I seriously don't know what to make of this.

We play this for FUN people. There are no professional X-wing players. Get over yourselves and maybe, just maybe, consider the community next time you want to collude (yeah, I'm going there) with your peers to exclude a fair chunk of the community from playing spaceships with you.

Seriously, this is madness. Rant over. Sorry for the multitude of people who take offense to this post, and I know FFG need to address this, but I like to think that as a moral community we can chose to ignore this stupid ruling for the benefit of the community until they do.

What ever happened to the spirit of the game?

Show me a single case where there is any sort of universally agreed upon spirit of the game and you might have a point. But since there is no such thing... you don't.

gone the same way as common sense by the looks of things.

Since when is common sense ever common? Although someone's opinion is often confused for common sense... They also tend to assume that their opinion is the morally correct one.

I don't really care for how the ID rule works, but that doesn't mean that the people who took advantage of it are immoral or evil people.

Why do I need to show you a rule that says play in the spirit of the game? I now know everything I would ever need to know about you. You're happy to extort any advantage possible even at the expense of others enjoyment. Maybe you need to play something a little more formal to satisfy that streak.

This is a GAME. It's played for FUN. Developing a community with common interests is the best way to do that. Get off your high horse. You're not an athlete. You're not a professional. Your playing with toys. You have no right to ruin others experiences of this game, rules or no. It's not against the rules for me to swear like a sailor I front of your 5 year old child you brought along, but I bet my bottom dollar that's what you'd be expecting from me. And when I pay to play in a tournement for fun, I expect my opponents to honour that and, you know, play the game, not game the system

Why do I need to show you a rule that says play in the spirit of the game?

Because the spirit of the game is completely subjective. What you consider it to be may not be true for me. So how can anyone be expected to play according to it, when they can't agree what it is? Unless you're going to claim you have some sort of special authority to decide what it should be and everyone else has to bow to you.

I now know everything I would ever need to know about you.

You know jack about me, and the fact that you assume you do says a whole lot about you, as well as your other post. Apparently you are the final authority on what is Fun, and anyone who disagrees with you is a immoral, unethical and out and out evil person who should be cast out into the outer darkness. It must be liberating to believe that you get to decide what everyone else gets to think.

Maybe you need to play something a little more formal to satisfy that streak.

Like a premier level X-wing event and not a regular tournament??

This is a GAME. It's played for FUN.

But it wasm't played at all in that last round. *drops mic*

"Roanoke" . . . It's now being talked about with the familiarity of a famous Civil War Battle. JFC

This is a GAME. It's played for FUN.

But it wasm't played at all in that last round. *drops mic*

Since this appears to happen in only low number of players tourny's 40 or less, make id count as 0 in that type of tournament. Because smaller tourneys are really the only ones that can be manipulated by ID's, In a cut to 16 no one would have cared.

So them intentionally planning ahead of time to ID to send a message is okay because they're sending a message.

Got it

Was standing right there. This is not what happened...at all. This entire thread is invalid.

Rules this. Legal that. What ever happened to the spirit of the game? gone the same way as common sense by the looks of things. Why is tournement X-wing becoming so 'hardcore' when your generally playing for plastic tokens with about the same value as your tourney entry fee?

Looks like I picked a good week to have off the boards. I love the way we all bang on about the X-wing community being the best out there in the minatures scene, how everyone is so relaxed and friendly and 'fly casual' yet as soon as there's a loophole to exploit the community turns into a bunch of tax-dodging mega corporations.. Well, technically it's legal to deposit all my profits in this off shore scheme so I don't pay any tax. Win for the company, loss for the people who benefit from the tax.

So I'm sorry, but where as I can see why people are defending those involved I think the moral integrity is shocking and if those people can't see the hurt this has caused the community in what, 4 days, Just so they were guaranteed there special plastic dice then I seriously don't know what to make of this.

We play this for FUN people. There are no professional X-wing players. Get over yourselves and maybe, just maybe, consider the community next time you want to collude (yeah, I'm going there) with your peers to exclude a fair chunk of the community from playing spaceships with you.

Seriously, this is madness. Rant over. Sorry for the multitude of people who take offense to this post, and I know FFG need to address this, but I like to think that as a moral community we can chose to ignore this stupid ruling for the benefit of the community until they do.

I love how you people who talk about playing for "fun" are the same people moaning about how IDs give an unfair competitive edge.

Although the moral superiority of your post is a magnificent touch, I must say. ::kisses fingertips::