In the past I listened to a couple podcasts about xwing, then immediately unsubscribed due to constant talk of tournaments, Swiss cuts, not even pseudo nerd celebs like Paul Heaver, etc.

Doesn't anyone think these tournaments are being taken way too seriously by not just the top tourney players but many fans of the game as well?

First, as a father saving for my daughter's college find I find it absolutely pathetic for grown people to be wasting money "touring" the US to not play a game whose top prize is pennies on the dollar of the cost it took them to get to the venue. Scratch that, I would've found it a form of high narcissism when I was in my early twenties as well. At this point it's clearly not about the love of the game they're not playing or some winners reward but plain ego bragging rights for the top spots. Think about this: bragging rights for a plastic wargame that's a niche of a niche of a niche of nerddom. This is all very pathetic.

Stop being jerks and blaming the players.

"The Players", also known as "The 8 individuals to worked together to ensure they all made the cutoff by ensuring no other players who were in with a shot didn't even have a chance." If we can't criticize the people who actively made the decision and the resulting action, who can we criticize?

When one of the players who was actually at the event and would have made top 8 said he would have done the exact same thing as the top 8 did then it is time for the forum morality police to take a break. You need someone to blame, to rage against, then blame FFG Organized Play for a stupid ass rule.

Those 8 players played well enough in the rest of the tourney to take a draw and still make it to top 8. The other 9-20 places didn't. I see nothing wrong here other than salty people calling players cowards and worse for wanting a break.

X-wing has less granularity in possible scores (if I bring Brobots you can only score 0, 50 or 100 points from me), but it seems like a little more spread might help.

0, 25, 50. 75, 100 actually now. Half points large ship rule to stop people manipulating this varied granuality of scores.

First, as a father saving for my daughter's college find I find it absolutely pathetic for grown people to be wasting money "touring" the US to not play a game whose top prize is pennies on the dollar of the cost it took them to get to the venue. Scratch that, I would've found it a form of high narcissism when I was in my early twenties as well. At this point it's clearly not about the love of the game they're not playing or some winners reward but plain ego bragging rights for the top spots. Think about this: bragging rights for a plastic wargame that's a niche of a niche of a niche of nerddom. This is all very pathetic.

To be fair they're playing, what, ten or so back to back 75 minute games? Wouldn't be surprised if some did it for a break before elimination rather than to manipulate scoring.

Stop being jerks and blaming the players.

"The Players", also known as "The 8 individuals to worked together to ensure they all made the cutoff by ensuring no other players who were in with a shot didn't even have a chance." If we can't criticize the people who actively made the decision and the resulting action, who can we criticize?

When one of the players who was actually at the event and would have made top 8 said he would have done the exact same thing as the top 8 did then it is time for the forum morality police to take a break.

Ah, so that's how it works, is it? When enough people say they would do the same thing, that suddenly makes it ok?

What rot.

Those 8 players played well enough in the rest of the tourney to take a draw and still make it to top 8. The other 9-20 places didn't. I see nothing wrong here other than salty people calling players cowards and worse for wanting a break.

Wanting a break? Don't be stupid. They wanted to skip the last game to avoid a shift in the standings.

Also, you are ignoring the fact that these players did not necessarily play better than some others, they just played better up until the last game. You need to consider that they could have lost the last game and, after that loss, would have had a lower score than someon else (i.e. played worse).

Stop being jerks and blaming the players.

"The Players", also known as "The 8 individuals to worked together to ensure they all made the cutoff by ensuring no other players who were in with a shot didn't even have a chance." If we can't criticize the people who actively made the decision and the resulting action, who can we criticize?

When one of the players who was actually at the event and would have made top 8 said he would have done the exact same thing as the top 8 did then it is time for the forum morality police to take a break.

Ah, so that's how it works, is it? When enough people say they would do the same thing, that suddenly makes it ok?

What rot.

Wooosh. Oh look there goes the point right over your head.

The point is if one of the affected players isn't mad about it why are you ??

Is it a stupid ass rule, abso freaking lutely. But at least I have the clarity to know where the rot is coming from and not to blame the players for following the rules.

Those 8 players played well enough in the rest of the tourney to take a draw and still make it to top 8. The other 9-20 places didn't. I see nothing wrong here other than salty people calling players cowards and worse for wanting a break.

And if they had played to a draw I don't think anyone on this forum would give a ****.

Stop being jerks and blaming the players.

"The Players", also known as "The 8 individuals to worked together to ensure they all made the cutoff by ensuring no other players who were in with a shot didn't even have a chance." If we can't criticize the people who actively made the decision and the resulting action, who can we criticize?

When one of the players who was actually at the event and would have made top 8 said he would have done the exact same thing as the top 8 did then it is time for the forum morality police to take a break.

Ah, so that's how it works, is it? When enough people say they would do the same thing, that suddenly makes it ok?

What rot.

Wooosh. Oh look there goes the point right over your head.

The point is if one of the affected players isn't mad about it why are you ??

Is it a stupid ass rule, abso freaking lutely. But at least I have the clarity to know where the rot is coming from and not to blame the players for following the rules.

Because this situation is going to come up again. We are only just entering Regionals season and at some point we all may be affected, therefore the issue concerns all of us.

And if they had played to a draw I don't think anyone on this forum would give a ****.

You honestly think we wouldn't have threads and videos of "omg look all four top table fortressing simultaneously"?

Stop being jerks and blaming the players.

"The Players", also known as "The 8 individuals to worked together to ensure they all made the cutoff by ensuring no other players who were in with a shot didn't even have a chance." If we can't criticize the people who actively made the decision and the resulting action, who can we criticize?

When one of the players who was actually at the event and would have made top 8 said he would have done the exact same thing as the top 8 did then it is time for the forum morality police to take a break.

Ah, so that's how it works, is it? When enough people say they would do the same thing, that suddenly makes it ok?

What rot.

Wooosh. Oh look there goes the point right over your head.

The point is if one of the affected players isn't mad about it why are you ??

Is it a stupid ass rule, abso freaking lutely. But at least I have the clarity to know where the rot is coming from and not to blame the players for following the rules.

One player didn't care that 8 others screwed him out of a potential placing? Great. Good for him. Says something about him that he quite openly has said he'd do the same if in the same position.

What about the other players who were denied the opportunity to play for placement? Again, I ask the question: How many people saying they'd do the same thing does it need for it to become acceptable?

Also, I'm not mad. Far from it. But I am allowed a voice an opinion that is critical of others, and what I consider to be poor sportsmanship. If you interpret that as me being mad, well so be it. But it's far from it.

And if they had played to a draw I don't think anyone on this forum would give a ****.

You honestly think we wouldn't have threads and videos of "omg look all four top table fortressing simultaneously"?

Yeah...

I said PLAYED to a draw, not artificially created one.

I'm OK with the I.D. this being said. I think tournaments should run like they are ,but have a ruling that once a top 8 or top 4 stand out then it should go to a cut. Unless it's running like a first day Hoth event since you just need certain points to make that cut.

Didn't read the whole thread, but what did the 9th and 10 place think of this?

Had they won their last game could they have made the cut?

I guess that is what matters

If I was in 9th place and knew I still had a chance I'd be pretty ticked off.

Did 9th place OK this?

Not letting someone have a chance is pretty bad sportsmanship

But I wasn't there which is why I ask

Didn't read the whole thread, but what did the 9th and 10 place think of this?

Had they won their last game could they have made the cut?

I guess that is what matters

If I was in 9th place and knew I still had a chance I'd be pretty ticked off.

Did 9th place OK this?

Not letting someone have a chance is pretty bad sportsmanship

But I wasn't there which is why I ask

If the top 4 tables had played, assuming no natural draws (which are exceedingly rare), then 4 or 5 of them would have made it (depending on MoV in final match and who won on lower tables). meaning 3 or 4 players on tables 5-8 (the ones that won on those tables) would have made it in (3 definitely, 1 probably)

As someone who was there I am ashamed to have gone to this event. The top 8 was a joke and this needs to addressed by FFG Organized play before the next Regional. It was a good event up till the last round, no issues just one repairing due to drops after the lunch break.

When members of the top 8 are making fun of lower seeds cause they blocked them from advancing they have broken the spirit of competitive play. The language that was used towards the lower seed player was disparaging and uncalled for since they didn't even play out the final round.

When even the TO's are embarrassed when announcing the standings for the top 16, giving the 9th seed the TO dice set, it makes me not want to be a part of organized play.

What's the best way to contact organized play to complain? While FFG follows the boards, a direct complaint will probably get more attention.

I see four possible recommendations to fix.

(1) Disallow intentional draws. This does not eliminate the possibility of collusion by flying circles for an hour without engagement.

(2) Disallow all draws. If a game ends with equal points scored -- which is very, very rare in real play -- the winner is determined by initiative.

(3) Retain draws, but score intentional draws as zero points for both sides, so that there is no net effect on tournament standings.

(4) Restructure the entire tournament points allocation, whether on a larger scale (0-10), or by introducing "modified loss" scoring (e.g. Win 5 points, Mod Win 3 points, Mod Loss 2 points, Draw 1 point, Loss 0 points).

As someone who was there I am ashamed to have gone to this event. The top 8 was a joke and this needs to addressed by FFG Organized play before the next Regional. It was a good event up till the last round, no issues just one repairing due to drops after the lunch break.

When members of the top 8 are making fun of lower seeds cause they blocked them from advancing they have broken the spirit of competitive play. The language that was used towards the lower seed player was disparaging and uncalled for since they didn't even play out the final round.

When even the TO's are embarrassed when announcing the standings for the top 16, giving the 9th seed the TO dice set, it makes me not want to be a part of organized play.

Can you expand on what the "Top 8" were saying regarding the other players?

Didn't read the whole thread, but what did the 9th and 10 place think of this?

Had they won their last game could they have made the cut?

I guess that is what matters

If I was in 9th place and knew I still had a chance I'd be pretty ticked off.

Did 9th place OK this?

Not letting someone have a chance is pretty bad sportsmanship

But I wasn't there which is why I ask

If the top 4 tables had played, assuming no natural draws (which are exceedingly rare), then 4 or 5 of them would have made it (depending on MoV in final match and who won on lower tables). meaning 3 or 4 players on tables 5-8 (the ones that won on those tables) would have made it why in (3 definitely, 1 probably)

If they complained would this still have happened?

That sounds pretty unfair to me.

Especially if I traveled a distance to be there

I'd be pretty pissed about that, getting shafted

I'm also surprised to see the world champion involved in this fiasco.

Definitely not very champion like, if what is said us true, especially what someone just mentioned above about them talking smack about the lower tier.

Again though I wasnt there, so won't know for sure

Knowing the rules and playing within them is not a crime. This is not about the players it's about FFG needing to fix a rule or make changes to the tournament structure/scoring. What if someone did the same thing if the cut was to top 4 and they took an intentional draw to stay in the top 8 for a prize?

Now let's get back to bacon.

Well it's the worst rule ffg ever came up with

Still doesn't make it right.

Especially when you know your shafting other players.

I'm kind of glad after this year regional, I maybe stepping down from this game for awhile.

Hearing Things like this pissc me off

Well, that's sick. Can't know for certain since the top 8 didn't play out, but it looks like had they played #9 would certainly have made the cut and #10 stood a chance as well.

Interesting to note the SOS of 9 and 13, both of whom would have had a shot of games were played out. It goes against my original thought that people in the top 8 probably had the toughest road to get there. I can agree at this point it should effectively be zero points at best.

Didn't read the whole thread, but what did the 9th and 10 place think of this?

Had they won their last game could they have made the cut?

I guess that is what matters

If I was in 9th place and knew I still had a chance I'd be pretty ticked off.

Did 9th place OK this?

Not letting someone have a chance is pretty bad sportsmanship

But I wasn't there which is why I ask

If the top 4 tables had played, assuming no natural draws (which are exceedingly rare), then 4 or 5 of them would have made it (depending on MoV in final match and who won on lower tables). meaning 3 or 4 players on tables 5-8 (the ones that won on those tables) would have made it why in (3 definitely, 1 probably)

So why didn't they speak up?

If they complained would this still have happened?

That sounds pretty unfair to me.

Especially if I traveled a distance to be there

I'd be pretty pissed about that, getting shafted

I'm also surprised to see the world champion involved in this fiasco.

Definitely not very champion like, if what is said us true, especially what someone just mentioned above about them talking smack about the lower tier.

Again though I wasnt there, so won't know for sure

Heaver said on Nova squadron a couple of weeks ago basically "It's legal now, If it comes up, I'll 100% do it, I'd be silly not to"

Looking at MOV, 9 and 10 were guarenteed in with the games being played. 11 needed #6 to lose by 30 or more (so lose 100-70 or worse) and #12 basically needed a few of them to be tabled.

In a nutshell, with one round of swiss to go, the rules allowed the top 8 players to decide who would be going through and who wouldn't without playing. I've got that right haven't I?

With that understanding of the situation, I don't care if the rules allow it. If you do it, you're not playing in the spirit of the game and you don't deserve anything.

In fact it actually makes me embarrassed to be an X-Wing player when the guys at the top are willing to do things like this.

Poor show. If you're as good as these guys supposedly are, then why not just play? Is it the end of the world if you lose? Does that much hinge on it? All they've managed to do is make themselves losers.