If you made real draws count for 2, I could simply fortress my ships and not move, and my opponent could do the same.
This would be a fairly easy realization to come to without colluding about it. Just don't say anything and don't move your ships for an hour.
Is the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
I'm extremely lucky that in my local area of over 500 players, we have almost no issues that pop up during events.
Is the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
It's very much a thing. My local group had one for a while before he finally moved on due to running out of people naive enough to play him.
They're in no way a majority, though.
If you made real draws count for 2, I could simply fortress my ships and not move, and my opponent could do the same.
This would be a fairly easy realization to come to without colluding about it. Just don't say anything and don't move your ships for an hour.
Is your point (intent) to say that 2 is a point too high? In a 5/3 point value scheme for win/mod, it's probably too high even without your mirror-castle scenario.
But in any event, your scenario still denies the players the benefit of getting away from the tables for a spell. There is still that "cost".
Is the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
I'm extremely lucky that in my local area of over 500 players, we have almost no issues that pop up during events.
I've been called a ****** bag at a Store Championship for denying a forgotten Ysanne Evade.
An opponent had Advanced Sensors on a Brobot, revealed a sloop, put the template in the nubs, then wanted to use advanced sensors to TL. I let him because he was being a jerk about it after I had tried to deny it originally.
An opponent had a list with PS 6's and PS 8's in it. He fired with a PS 6 first, so I denied him shots with his 8's and then got hit with a, "are you serious bro, are you ******* serious? This is a casual tournament, I just made a mistake. Come on dude. Seriously?!" temper tantrum.
Just the other day, an opponent had both a PS 7 and an 8 in a list. He fired with his 7 first, and I denied the shot with the PS 8. A friend that had the bye that was observing the game then said I was being an *******, that what I had done was so sh*tty, and that he hopes karma gets to me.
It's fine though, every time this happens I just develop more and more of a disregard for the "fly casual" movement. Shoot down someone's plane and then gun them down as they climb out of the wreckage. Freebies lol.
Is the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
I'm extremely lucky that in my local area of over 500 players, we have almost no issues that pop up during events.
I've been called a ****** bag at a Store Championship for denying a forgotten Ysanne Evade.
An opponent had Advanced Sensors on a Brobot, revealed a sloop, put the template in the nubs, then wanted to use advanced sensors to TL. I let him because he was being a jerk about it after I had tried to deny it originally.
An opponent had a list with PS 6's and PS 8's in it. He fired with a PS 6 first, so I denied him shots with his 8's and then got hit with a, "are you serious bro, are you ******* serious? This is a casual tournament, I just made a mistake. Come on dude. Seriously?!" temper tantrum.
Just the other day, an opponent had both a PS 7 and an 8 in a list. He fired with his 7 first, and I denied the shot with the PS 8. A friend that had the bye that was observing the game then said I was being an *******, that what I had done was so sh*tty, and that he hopes karma gets to me.
It's fine though, every time this happens I just develop more and more of a disregard for the "fly casual" movement. Shoot down someone's plane and then gun them down as they climb out of the wreckage. Freebies lol.
You just posted in a thread that explained to you that none of those people were Flying Casual. You have a problem with those players, not the idea of Fly Casual.
Edited by ObiWonkawho knew ID's would hurt so many feelings of those not involved in the event. crazy.
kudos to ffg for not backing down.
who knew ID's would hurt so many feelings of those not involved in the event. crazy.
kudos to ffg for not backing down.
This game isn't one of the LCGs. The fact that we can have situations like this is not good for the game. It is much, much easier to get a situation like this than the LCGs.
You just posted in a thread that explained to you that none of those people were Flying Casual. You have a problem with those players, not the idea of Fly Casual.Is the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
I'm extremely lucky that in my local area of over 500 players, we have almost no issues that pop up during events.
I've been called a ****** bag at a Store Championship for denying a forgotten Ysanne Evade.
An opponent had Advanced Sensors on a Brobot, revealed a sloop, put the template in the nubs, then wanted to use advanced sensors to TL. I let him because he was being a jerk about it after I had tried to deny it originally.
An opponent had a list with PS 6's and PS 8's in it. He fired with a PS 6 first, so I denied him shots with his 8's and then got hit with a, "are you serious bro, are you ******* serious? This is a casual tournament, I just made a mistake. Come on dude. Seriously?!" temper tantrum.
Just the other day, an opponent had both a PS 7 and an 8 in a list. He fired with his 7 first, and I denied the shot with the PS 8. A friend that had the bye that was observing the game then said I was being an *******, that what I had done was so sh*tty, and that he hopes karma gets to me.
It's fine though, every time this happens I just develop more and more of a disregard for the "fly casual" movement. Shoot down someone's plane and then gun them down as they climb out of the wreckage. Freebies lol.
They're not really flying casual of course, but they would say they support such a thing. I have a problem with the "always allow forgotten triggers, never fly a ship off the map when it double reds, allow people to fire out of PS order, and if you don't do these things you're just a WAAC jerk" version of fly casual. It /should/ just mean being polite to your opponent regardless if they deny you triggers or not, I loved your recent thread. But that's not how many people view it. It's irrelevant if their interpretation of it is incorrect.
Anyways, my post was to provide examples of militant casuals.
Oh yeah, forgot another encounter with a militant casual. He took 5 minutes to set 3 dials, after picking up and resetting them 3 times. I asked of he could speed it up and was immediately told that, "Oh, you want to get your friend the TO over now? Well you slow play all the time with your swarm." I let it go because I didn't feel like having an argument, although I should have. Later in the game he shot with a low PS B-Wing before his Poe. I denied him a shot with Poe. He said that I suck all the fun out of the game. Good. 
Haven't seen him play X-Wing in a while, would be fun to put him on tilt some more haha.
Just posting that the Reno joke made me laugh like a madman, been awhile since the X-Wing area of the FFG forums made me do that.
It's irrelevant if their interpretation of it is incorrect.
It's completely relevant. If you truly value politeness at tournaments, then you should stop misrepresenting Fly Casual as well. And I don't just mean your own attitude. I mean when you post about the militant casuals, call them such, don't associate them with Fly Casual, unless it's to point out how they're doing it wrong. If you do that, maybe more people who see the difference and the true meaning of Fly Casual will want to be part of it, instead of seeing the extremists and thinking "I want nothing to do with that".*
*This last point applies to the world and extremists at large; I just wish more people could understand that.
who knew ID's would hurt so many feelings of those not involved in the event. crazy.
kudos to ffg for not backing down.
Well then.
It's one thing to stand on a particular side of the issue. It's another thing entirely to criticize those who do on the general theory that "if it doesn't affect you, you shouldn't bother having an opinion."
Not to pick on you, but I've seen a similar sentiment elsewhere during this Great Trial. And I just don't get it.
X-Wing has finally gotten so big that there are real stakes involved. Not life-changing monetary stakes, but close. Real stakes as in, a free trip across the Atlantic to a one-of-a-kind global event, the kind of thing any given player may realistically view as a once in a lifetime opportunity, that short of winning a lottery, he/she may never get to experience in their lives based on their economic status.
When you offer those kinds of prizes, you better get the competitive rules system worked out right.
who knew ID's would hurt so many feelings of those not involved in the event. crazy.
kudos to ffg for not backing down.
Well then.
It's one thing to stand on a particular side of the issue. It's another thing entirely to criticize those who do on the general theory that "if it doesn't affect you, you shouldn't bother having an opinion."
Not to pick on you, but I've seen a similar sentiment elsewhere during this Great Trial. And I just don't get it.
X-Wing has finally gotten so big that there are real stakes involved. Not life-changing monetary stakes, but close. Real stakes as in, a free trip across the Atlantic to a one-of-a-kind global event, the kind of thing any given player may realistically view as a once in a lifetime opportunity, that short of winning a lottery, he/she may never get to experience in their lives based on their economic status.
When you offer those kinds of prizes, you better get the competitive rules system worked out right.
people can have opinions but a lot of the nonsense that has been said has gotten pretty stupid.
Best way to get their attention is to boycott the remaining regionals.
Sounds like a good plan wonder how many of the no shows they will notice are not their?
It's completely relevant. If you truly value politeness at tournaments, then you should stop misrepresenting Fly Casual as well. And I don't just mean your own attitude. I mean when you post about the militant casuals, call them such, don't associate them with Fly Casual, unless it's to point out how they're doing it wrong. If you do that, maybe more people who see the difference and the true meaning of Fly Casual will want to be part of it, instead of seeing the extremists and thinking "I want nothing to do with that".*It's irrelevant if their interpretation of it is incorrect.
*This last point applies to the world and extremists at large; I just wish more people could understand that.
I think our shared opinion of what "Fly Casual" should be isn't the mainstream view of it. I believe I've heard the originator of FC talk about how he won't fly a ship that has done a double red off the map on a podcast, implying that winning that way is less honorable. The original meaning of FC is that honor thing, and asserting that denying triggers is impolite and dishonorable and something only a try hard who cares about plastic spaceships too much would do.
Then they go on Facebook, and un-friend people and insult them personally. Over ******* plastic space ships, and they're the side that supposedly is the right one, supposedly promoting a casual atmosphere at events.
Is the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
I'm extremely lucky that in my local area of over 500 players, we have almost no issues that pop up during events.
I've been called a ****** bag at a Store Championship for denying a forgotten Ysanne Evade.
An opponent had Advanced Sensors on a Brobot, revealed a sloop, put the template in the nubs, then wanted to use advanced sensors to TL. I let him because he was being a jerk about it after I had tried to deny it originally.
An opponent had a list with PS 6's and PS 8's in it. He fired with a PS 6 first, so I denied him shots with his 8's and then got hit with a, "are you serious bro, are you ******* serious? This is a casual tournament, I just made a mistake. Come on dude. Seriously?!" temper tantrum.
Just the other day, an opponent had both a PS 7 and an 8 in a list. He fired with his 7 first, and I denied the shot with the PS 8. A friend that had the bye that was observing the game then said I was being an *******, that what I had done was so sh*tty, and that he hopes karma gets to me.
It's fine though, every time this happens I just develop more and more of a disregard for the "fly casual" movement. Shoot down someone's plane and then gun them down as they climb out of the wreckage. Freebies lol.
Have you ever wondered if maybe there's something about your own behavior -- the one common denominator in all this -- that might bring out the worst in people? You certainly seem to delight in the scorn people have for you here on the forums, do you act mostly the same IRL?
Edited by CritiasIs the whole "militant casual" player an actual thing that is happening frequently, or is it just a strawman argument being brought up over and over?
I'm extremely lucky that in my local area of over 500 players, we have almost no issues that pop up during events.
I've been called a ****** bag at a Store Championship for denying a forgotten Ysanne Evade.
An opponent had Advanced Sensors on a Brobot, revealed a sloop, put the template in the nubs, then wanted to use advanced sensors to TL. I let him because he was being a jerk about it after I had tried to deny it originally.
An opponent had a list with PS 6's and PS 8's in it. He fired with a PS 6 first, so I denied him shots with his 8's and then got hit with a, "are you serious bro, are you ******* serious? This is a casual tournament, I just made a mistake. Come on dude. Seriously?!" temper tantrum.
Just the other day, an opponent had both a PS 7 and an 8 in a list. He fired with his 7 first, and I denied the shot with the PS 8. A friend that had the bye that was observing the game then said I was being an *******, that what I had done was so sh*tty, and that he hopes karma gets to me.
It's fine though, every time this happens I just develop more and more of a disregard for the "fly casual" movement. Shoot down someone's plane and then gun them down as they climb out of the wreckage. Freebies lol.
Some people just need the attention, even if it's bad attention.....
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
US population~319 million people
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please 
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
US population~319 million people
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please
Total population statistics are pretty worthless to determine players of this game... I would bet the players per capita is very different.
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
US population~319 million people
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please
Player base != population.
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
US population~319 million people
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please
Total population statistics are pretty worthless to determine players of this game... I would bet the players per capita is very different.
US Open - Allows for 265 people
EU: UK Open alone allows for 512 people. You also have the France Open, Poland Open, Denmark Open, Italy Open, Spain Open, and Germany Open
So, yes, population does not equal players, but I would ask you why they have so many more EU Opens with much more people when the EU is smaller in geographical size?
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
US population~319 million people
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please
Total population statistics are pretty worthless to determine players of this game... I would bet the players per capita is very different.
US Open - Allows for 265 people
EU: UK Open alone allows for 512 people. You also have the France Open, Poland Open, Denmark Open, Italy Open, Spain Open, and Germany Open
So, yes, population does not equal players, but I would ask you why they have so many more EU Opens with much more people when the EU is smaller in geographical size?
The EU Opens likely have more players given the ease in which one can travel between multiple European countries both as far as distance and cost are concerned. It is entirely feasible for some in the UK to also attend the French and German opens without too much trouble or cost.
This is opposed to the US, which given the geographic size and cost of travel, makes it unlikely for people to travel across country to attend events.
Total population statistics are pretty worthless to determine players of this game... I would bet the players per capita is very different.US population~319 million peopleh
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please
US Open - Allows for 265 people
EU: UK Open alone allows for 512 people. You also have the France Open, Poland Open, Denmark Open, Italy Open, Spain Open, and Germany Open
So, yes, population does not equal players, but I would ask you why they have so many more EU Opens with much more people when the EU is smaller in geographical size?
The EU Opens likely have more players given the ease in which one can travel between multiple European countries both as far as distance and cost are concerned. It is entirely feasible for some in the UK to also attend the French and German opens without too much trouble or cost.
This is opposed to the US, which given the geographic size and cost of travel, makes it unlikely for people to travel across country to attend events.
From what I've heard Americans travel further than Europeans for tournaments.
As we build more compelling tournaments like the System Open Series...
You mean the "compelling tournament" that only had a single event in the US, aka your biggest player base, and completely disregarded the Asia-Pacific region entirely.
Forgive me if I don't accept that as a decent line of reasoning to explain the inclusion of IDs....
US population~319 million people
European Union population~508 million people
Tell me US has the biggest player base again please
Total population statistics are pretty worthless to determine players of this game... I would bet the players per capita is very different.
US Open - Allows for 265 people
EU: UK Open alone allows for 512 people. You also have the France Open, Poland Open, Denmark Open, Italy Open, Spain Open, and Germany Open
So, yes, population does not equal players, but I would ask you why they have so many more EU Opens with much more people when the EU is smaller in geographical size?
The EU Opens likely have more players given the ease in which one can travel between multiple European countries both as far as distance and cost are concerned. It is entirely feasible for some in the UK to also attend the French and German opens without too much trouble or cost.
This is opposed to the US, which given the geographic size and cost of travel, makes it unlikely for people to travel across country to attend events.
Umm.... what?
Sure, for more players that might make sense (though I disagree), but by that rational, the US would have more locations. i.e. USNW, USSW, USNC, USSC, USNE, USSE...